OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

[Joe Boxer]

I was ringside for the OPBF middleweight title fight in Osaka, Japan, on August 2nd.

The referee Brad Vocale stopped the fight after the 8th round. The Korean fighter, Pil-seung Oh, loudly protested the stoppage, and did his corner.

I read Joe Koizumi's report on the fight, and it was wrong. It wasn't RTD. Pil-seung Oh did NOT quit. Jesus, Koizumi wasn't even there.

I hope someone can please change the result, because it's an insult to the fighter.

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

[AntonS]

Ref Brad Vocale retired him. Had he not, the result would've been KO9 :P

[Joe Boxer]

"Ref Brad Vocale retired him."

Yes, that is true. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe RTD means that the fighter or the fighter's corner quits.

Here's a link to the boxrec definition of RTD: http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/RTD

In speaking with Brad Vocale after the fight, he said that he knew Pil-seung Oh would never quit, even though he was taking so much punishment. So Vocale had to make the decision.

So, it was not RTD. Can someone please change it?

[sandis]

According to boxrec.com rules it is RTD.

[Joe Boxer]

According to boxrec.com rules it is RTD.

That is not true. Here is the boxrec derinition of RTD:

RTD ("retired") is a boxing term which designates that a boxer or his corner did not allow him to come out for the next round, thus "retiring" in the corner. RTDs are often recorded as TKOs. They are recorded in a boxer's knockout totals.

The fight did not end by RTD. The referee stopped it based on his own assessment, which makes it TKO.

[sandis]

It is RTD and will be RTD

Boxer remained in corner between rounds and didnt come out to next round. Reasons dont matter.


Boxrec has TKO (0:01) only when referee invites boxers to the ring center and after that one of the cornermen threws in the towel. Others stoppages between rounds (boxer himself, cornerman, doctor, referee) are RTD (3:00).

[Joe Boxer]

It is RTD and will be RTD

Boxer remained in corner between rounds and didnt come out to next round. Reasons dont matter.

Of COURSE the reasons matter.

Joe Koizumi (who, as I mentioned, wasn't even there) reported:
"Oh abruptly called it quits on the stool after the eighth."

The only reason Oh was on his stool was because it was between rounds. The ref looked closely, and decided to end the fight. Oh jumped up and protested, as did the rest of Oh's corner.

It was not RTD. It doesn't match-up with boxrec's definition of RTD
http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/RTD

It should be listed as TKO http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/T ... l_knockout

It's not fair to the fighter. Pil-seung Oh may not have a pretty record, but he's a gladiator and would never quit, contrary to the implications of the "RTD" beside his name for eternity.

[claudevsq]

It is RTD and will be RTD

Boxer remained in corner between rounds and didnt come out to next round. Reasons dont matter.


Boxrec has TKO (0:01) only when referee invites boxers to the ring center and after that one of the cornermen threws in the towel. Others stoppages between rounds (boxer himself, cornerman, doctor, referee) are RTD (3:00).

What part of this didn't you understand?

[Joe Boxer]

It is RTD and will be RTD

Boxer remained in corner between rounds and didnt come out to next round. Reasons dont matter.


Boxrec has TKO (0:01) only when referee invites boxers to the ring center and after that one of the cornermen threws in the towel. Others stoppages between rounds (boxer himself, cornerman, doctor, referee) are RTD (3:00).

What part of this didn't you understand?

I think I've explained it a few times.
The boxrec definition of RTD is that "a boxer or his corner did not allow him to come out for the next round".
A BOXER OR HIS CORNER.
The boxer, Pil-seung Oh, did not quit.
The corner did not "refuse to allow him to come out".
Therefore, it was not RTD. It doesn't match the definition.

[Joe Boxer]

I'm trying to think of a similar example of a ref stopping the fight between rounds. The only one I can come up with is Chad Dawson vs. Dumont Welliver.

Welliver’s left eye started swelling in the third round, and was swollen shut by the eighth. The referee stopped the fight after the round.

The fighter did not quit, so it was recorded as TKO http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer


Here's a couple of PROPER RTD's:
Sonny Liston quit between rounds against Ali, and that was properly recorded as RTD.
Vitali Klitchko quit vs. Byrd; RTD 9.
Oscar De La Hoya quit after the 8th round; another proper RTD.
Iran Barkley's corner quit during the break after the 9th round (I believe). It should be listed as RTD, but for some reason it's listed as TKO 10 http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

[Blue]

The wiki needs to be corrected, RTD doesn’t mean a fighter quit.
A corner retirement is a termination of a bout between rounds when there is no action and the clock is stopped.
Usually a fighter is injured or hopelessly behind and in danger of being injured.
AFAIK, RTD is an old definition by the British, who invented the “sport” of boxing.
It helps a ring physician or a matchmaker evaluate what happened when he looks at the fighter’s record.

Under the unified rules now accepted by most commissions, only the referee can stop a fight.
(Some commissions still allow the ringside physician the privilege.)
The corner or ring physician may petition to end the fight by stepping up on the ring apron, but only the referee decides.

IMO, “Quitting on your stool” is a prejudice old sports writer’s myth that advocates "Going out on your shield".
AFAIK,There is no rule that says a corner can stop a fight.
This is why a fighter is disqualified when the cornerman steps into the ring.
If the corner is allowed to stop fights, too many wise guys will ace their friends in and get rich.

[Joe Boxer]

The wiki needs to be corrected, RTD doesn’t mean a fighter quit.
A corner retirement is a termination of a bout between rounds when there is no action and the clock is stopped.
Usually a fighter is injured or hopelessly behind and in danger of being injured.
AFAIK, RTD is an old definition by the British, who invented the “sport” of boxing.
It helps a ring physician or a matchmaker evaluate what happened when he looks at the fighter’s record.

Under the unified rules now accepted by most commissions, only the referee can stop a fight.
(Some commissions still allow the ringside physician the privilege.)
The corner or ring physician may petition to end the fight by stepping up on the ring apron, but only the referee decides.

IMO, “Quitting on your stool” is a prejudice old sports writer’s myth that advocates "Going out on your shield".
AFAIK,There is no rule that says a corner can stop a fight.
This is why a fighter is disqualified when the cornerman steps into the ring.
If the corner is allowed to stop fights, too many wise guys will ace their friends in and get rich.

Well, thanks for taking the time to explain. RTD just seems to say "quitting" to me.

Is there any possibility of having "Referee Brad Vocale stopped the fight after the eighth round" beneath the match?

[Emaster]

The wiki needs to be corrected

Along with the main wiki's article on "RTD", which refers to the false information in BoxRec's wiki.

[AntonS]

Personally, I think fellow bananabender Bradley should've let it go & got Korean blasted into 2010, which would make the result so much clearer

Bananabender=
Alternate name for a resident of Queensland, Australia, where bananas grow and people with nothing better to do put a bend in them.

[Emaster]

BoxRec says that Celestino Caballero won his fight with Francisco Leal on August 29, 2009 on RTD at 0:10 of round eight. If I get the definition right, the result does not match the time, which should be 0:00 (or 3:00?) in case of RTD. Otherwise it is a TKO, isn't it?

BTW: It could be added that Leal was down once in the first round, which this video shows at 6:12.

[Blue]

No boxing occurred in the 8th rd.
Mexico still performs the ceremonial count of ten while the boxer sits on his stool.

[Emaster]

The wiki needs to be corrected

Along with the main wiki's article on "RTD", which refers to the false information in BoxRec's wiki.

I've added the following definition in the wiki: "A Referee Technical Decision (RTD) occurs when a boxer does not come out for the next round based on his own, his corner's, the referee's, or -- if designated by the rules -- the doctor's decision." Is it correct?

[Blue]

No disrespect intended, but I still have to disagree.
I can’t find a rule anywhere that says a corner can stop a fight.
They may petition to end the fight, but only the referee decides.
Rules state if a fighter refuses to fight, he should be disqualified.

There-is-no-quitting-in-boxing!

The term “Quitting” is perpetuated by ignorant officials, political
appointees and know-nothing sports writers.

BTW, IMO this also goes for “Taking a knee”.

[wouter]

The wiki needs to be corrected

Along with the main wiki's article on "RTD", which refers to the false information in BoxRec's wiki.

I've added the following definition in the wiki: "A Referee Technical Decision (RTD) occurs when a boxer does not come out for the next round based on his own, his corner's, the referee's, or -- if designated by the rules -- the doctor's decision." Is it correct?

I changed it back to retired - which is what RTD stands for - but added that it can be on the ref's instruction. You can't just make up words.

[Emaster]

I can’t find a rule anywhere that says a corner can stop a fight.
They may petition to end the fight, but only the referee decides.
Rules state if a fighter refuses to fight, he should be disqualified.

There-is-no-quitting-in-boxing!

The term “Quitting” is perpetuated by ignorant officials, political
appointees and know-nothing sports writers.

So what about this definition, "... when the referee, or -- if designated by the rules -- the doctor does not permit the boxer to come out for the next round"? Or does the doctor have to be omitted, too? Sometimes it says, "the referee or doctor can stop the fight." So I didn't touch the doctor.

BTW, IMO this also goes for “Taking a knee”.

What do you mean by that? That a boxer is not allowed to take such a break and could be disqualified right away?

I've added the following definition in the wiki: "A Referee Technical Decision (RTD) occurs when a boxer does not come out for the next round based on his own, his corner's, the referee's, or -- if designated by the rules -- the doctor's decision." Is it correct?

I changed it back to retired - which is what RTD stands for - but added that it can be on the ref's instruction. You can't just make up words.

RTD really stands for "Retired"? Then I wonder where the tale started that it means "Referee Technical Decision." The main wikipedia article might have been the starting point. The term has even spread to an online dictionary. (See here.)

[wouter]

RTD really stands for "Retired"? Then I wonder where the tale started that it means "Referee Technical Decision." The main wikipedia article might have been the starting point. The term has even spread to an online dictionary. (See here.)

I have never heard of the term 'referee technical decisíon.' It sounds like someone has been searching something to fit RTD.

[wsbuf]

A referee can retire someone? Should be a TKO.

[AntonS]

This was done to death 3 years ago :P

[Blue]

A referee can retire someone? Should be a TKO.

ASSOCATION OF BOXING COMMISSIONS UNIFORM RULES OF BOXING
As Approved August 25, 2001, Amended August 2, 2002, Amended July 3, 2008
http://www.abcboxing.com/unified_boxing_rules.html

2. The referee is the sole arbiter of a bout and is the only individual authorized to stop a contest.

The referee is there to insure the integrity of the fight and the safety of boxers by enforcing the rules.

When he stops the fight during the round while the clock is running to prevent a possible concussion to
a fighter that is injured or unable to defend himself.
It is scored a TKO.

When he stops the fight between the rounds while the clock is stopped to prevent a possible concussion
to a fighter that is outclassed and unable to defend himself, or has a career threatening injury.
It is scored a RTD.

If you allow the corner to stop the fight, you compromise the integrity of the fight.
If a fighter quits he is disqualified and his purse is held up until a commission hearing is held to determine if there was foul play.
Integrity protects the fans and the betting public.

[Emaster]

I've added the following definition in the wiki: "A Referee Technical Decision (RTD) occurs when a boxer does not come out for the next round based on his own, his corner's, the referee's, or -- if designated by the rules -- the doctor's decision." Is it correct?

I changed it back to retired - which is what RTD stands for - but added that it can be on the ref's instruction.

The definition hasn't actually been changed yet and given Blue's latest post it seems that the retiring must be on the ref's -- and only the ref's -- instruction. Thus I now propose the simple definition: "RTD - retired - is a term used when the referee does not permit a boxer to come out for the next round. RTDs are often recorded as TKOs. They are recorded in a boxer's knockout total." Possible reasons for retiring a boxer could additionally be mentioned.

It would be best if one of those who are familiar with the definition of RTD just corrected its wiki entry accordingly.