A Show Of Hands, Please...

[Goodnight, Irene]

...On an old debate which will never have an answer.

Who was the better fighter? Tunney, or Dempsey? In a fifteen-rounder at Heavyweight, who do you favour between the Tunney who near-faultlessly schooled an ageing (&, first time around, sick) Dempsey twice, barely dropping a round, or the peak Dempsey of years earlier, who tore through the division en route to decimating Willard?

I have sometimes hinted on here how much I think of Tunney, & I maintain as healthy a respect for Dempsey as anyone. This is an intriguing battle, IMO, where several key strengths coincide with weaknesses (for instance, Tunney's excellent, consistent jab, & Dempsey's dislike of a capable jabber).

I would very pensively back Dempsey on a mid-rounds stoppage.

[Rossman]

Man, extremely close . . . I will go with Tunney by a nose . . .

[dempseyfire]

Prime for prime Dempsey finishes Gene off when he failed after the Long Count.

[I Feel Fine]

One could argue that Tunney is higher pound for pound while Dempsey is the better Heavyweight. Just a thought.

I figure Dempsey wins peak for peak. I wouldn't put it past Tunney, but I find it very unlikely that Gene beats Dempsey in his prime. He was beating an older Dempsey who hadn't fought in years and who was actually ill heading into their first fight. Dempsey, as dempseyfire mentioned, almost beat him the second time, as we well know. In his prime Dempsey probably stops him, I think.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Very unlikely?

Tunney was teak-tough. His chin was battle-hardened, & his defense, well, how many times was he down? It was approaching air-tight status. He was a better fighter, overall, than Dempsey. There were fewer mistakes in his game, he was just as quick of hand, & foot, & his analytical mind greater than Dempsey's. When each man errs in the ring, Dempsey will usually take advantage, but Tunney will take advantage every time, without fail. It was his way --- he picked the opposition apart. He also proved (in Dempsey's own words) he could hurt, in spite of his perceived lack of real power. Dempsey was adamant a right hand stopped him in his tracks during their 1927 rematch. The jab would also be a hell of a thing for Dempsey. He never liked them, & Tunney's was pitch-excellent. Straight, true, & consistent. He didn't let it slide as the fight wore on.

I give a lot of credit to Dempsey for flooring him, but I don't take away from Tunney for a moments' lapse through twenty otherwise flawless rounds. Yes, Dempsey was diminished, but what Tunney did to him was simply outstanding, nonetheless.

As mentioned, I like a younger Dempsey, but I'd place no more than a dime on it. I'm not sure there's really a way to argue one was better pound-for-pound without also being straight-up the better man --- they were almost identical in size.

[I Feel Fine]

I would not take away from Tunney's abilities or professionalism, he analyzed Dempsey thoroughly and stuck to his gameplan. But he was fighting a different animal than the Dempsey who had fought Firpo or Willard. He just wasn't the same. I don't think Sharkey would have done as well against a prime Dempsey either, winning against Dempsey before the controversial knockout. It is not to say that Tunney would not give prime Dempsey difficulties, but I get the impression that Dempsey would get to him, which he did the second time, and would have a better shot at finishing him as dempseyfire alluded to. Dempsey in his prime was busier, sharper. But those three year layoffs are generally not good for you, especially when you come back past your prime. Dempsey still showed the ability to hurt Tunney, and he would probably hurt him a lot more in his prime.
Tunney had great accomplishments at Light Heavyweight and Heavyweight, Dempsey at Heavyweight, that they were similar in size when they fought does not necessarily take away from the idea that Tunney might be rated higher pound for pound and Dempsey at Heavyweight. But, as I said, it is just a thought.
"Honey, I forgot to duck."

[Goodnight, Irene]

Shame they couldn't meet in their primes. It might've been a trilogy.

[raylawpc]

From someone who saw them both live:

William Brady, who managed Corbett and Jeffries, and who saw every heavyweight champion from John L. until 1950, was asked once to compare Corbett and Tunney.

One difference he noted was that Corbett would have defeated even a prime John L. Sullivan. But that Tunney would have never defeated a prime Jack Dempsey.

Just one man's opinion, but one to be taken pretty seriously since he saw them both live. Jim Jeffries was of the same opinion, by the way.

[Seamus]

Dempsey's got a big advantage in punching power, but I like Tunney in every other category.

[Adamj1987]

poll says 50:50 atm i voted tunny

[allworld80]

Dempsey's got a big advantage in punching power, but I like Tunney in every other category.

X2

[Mr E]

Dempsey.

[Ezzard]

One could argue that Tunney is higher pound for pound while Dempsey is the better Heavyweight. Just thought.

I figure Dempsey wins peak for peak. I wouldn't put it past Tunney, but I find it very unlikely that Gene beats Dempsey in his prime. He was beating an older Dempsey who hadn't fought in years and who was actually ill heading into their first fight. Dempsey, as dempseyfire mentioned, almost beat him the second time, as we well know. In his prime Dempsey probably stops him, I think.

I think this sums it up.

[Robinson]

I think Tunney is more talented all round. But had they met in a peak for peak setting
I would imagine Dempsey getting a win by stoppage. One thing he did well was bash
LHWs.
BUT... Tunney is a fine mover and would no doubt frustrate Dempsey, perhaps they
would split a series. Regardless Tunney has 2 wins over Dempsey, even if it was against
an older, non prime Jack.

Would have been a good fight though.

Dempsey @ 185lb Vs Tunney @ 175lbs.... good action and movement.

[Ezzard]

I think Tunney is more talented all round. But had they met in a peak for peak setting
I would imagine Dempsey getting a win by stoppage. One thing he did well was bash
LHWs.
BUT... Tunney is a fine mover and would no doubt frustrate Dempsey, perhaps they
would split a series. Regardless Tunney has 2 wins over Dempsey, even if it was against
an older, non prime Jack.

Would have been a good fight though.

Dempsey @ 185lb Vs Tunney @ 175lbs.... good action and movement.

Check Dempsey's record. He often struggled against the smaller men. But got the big men out of there quickly.

What I like from Dempsey's perspective is how quick he is to move in once he hurts Tunney (in the rematch). he's on him in a flash to put him down.

[Seamus]

It's interesting to contemplate the outcome of the two Tunney v Dempsey bouts if they had been 15 rounders. Would Tunney have gotten the stoppage in one or both bouts ?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Dempsey was surely not gonna hear the final bell for the first bout. He was in poor condition on more than one front for that initial meeting.

He looked mighty weary at the end of the tenth in the return, too. Would've had to suck it up in a big way. Dempsey was never short on heart, but his conditioning wouldn't have permitted him to last in the opening fight. It would've been a struggle in the second.

[Mr E]

One could argue that Tunney is higher pound for pound while Dempsey is the better Heavyweight. Just a thought.

Contrary to the opinions of most, I think Tunney reached his pound-for-pound peak not as a light-heavyweight but as a 190 lb. cruiserweight.

[Mr E]

Dempsey was surely not gonna hear the final bell for the first bout. He was in poor condition on more than one front for that initial meeting.

He looked mighty weary at the end of the tenth in the return, too. Would've had to suck it up in a big way. Dempsey was never short on heart, but his conditioning wouldn't have permitted him to last in the opening fight. It would've been a struggle in the second.

IMO, Tunney would not have knocked Dempsey out in 15 rounds or 50 rounds.

In the rematch, Dempsey was tired but cue that film up again and take another look @ the 10th. I submit to you that Dempsey was still in there punchin' -- and punchin' HARD.