- What, you want some ring time with me now, is that the game?
Ha. That's not what I meant, but if you're ever in L.A. and would like a little friendly sparring, come on over to Rigan Machado's Academy in Redondo Beach. I train in Brazilian jiu-jitsu there 3-4 times a week, but there's room to put on the gloves, which a number of us do fairly regularly. I have an extra set of gloves, but bring your own mouthpiece.
All I meant was that Jack Sharkey's form on several of the films you say you've seen is obviously first-rate, yet you don't see it. That makes me wonder whether you really know what you're looking at.
Seriously, that's about what you gents who predominate these boards do, you make up the most nonsensical assertion to attribute to me to easily refute. In the ring, that ain't even a credible feint.
I don't understand this passage at all. To what does it refer?
Anyone who accepts Primo's wins were fixed also have to accept that his losses were fixed too.
Complete nonsense. Carnera's backers had a financial stake in building him up, not in discrediting him. To the contrary, the fact that many of his wins were fixed makes it LESS likely that his losses were.
Same deal with Sharkey,
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so I don't always accept the results of this era or any era as gospel from just the record or pundits of the day. Too often I've seen film of described fights so different as to be night and day.
I, too
Based on limited video evidence and the current given records, Primo is the superior fighter to Sharkey in most areas.
I can't imagine how anyone could watch these two guys on film and come away with that conclusion.
Now, don't go and make up that I dismiss Sharkey. He was competitive with Walker and Schmeling and maybe Young Stribling as well, but per the record outboxed by Risko in what should be Sharkey at his best.
By "per the record" you mean he dropped a decision to Johnny Risko? I haven't seen that fight and I haven't read any next-day newspaper accounts of it. I read an after-the-fact summary somewhere that Sharkey showed up unmotivated, which he often did, and appeared not to be giving it his best -- but that he still probably did deserve the nod. Not sure how accurate that is at all. (Maybe ray or one of the other real historians around here could shed some light?) But, hell, Risko was a tough nut and there's no question (certainly not in my mind) that Sharkey was an inconsistent performer-- i.e., a total head case. Sharkey lost several other fights, too, and I never said he was the greatest of all time.
Primo also has a gamer fighter quality to him, where Sharkey seems to shut down when the trouble arrived.
Totally inaccurate. Sharkey shut down when bored-- most of his losses were the result of not throwing enough punches and being outhustled. When pressed, he usually fought pretty well. Carnera was unquestionably a gamer, though-- tough guy, lot of heart, good fighter.
Since Primo's peers are in the HOF, and he holds 3 wins over legit HOFers and a better carrer record than most, surely it must follow that at bare minimum he's in their class.
You need to explain this better. I need to know which wins you are talking about before I can respond.
Bill Tate also underrated as another example. Guy was WAY overmatched early in his career, rode hard and put up wet scenario, finally blossoming as Dempsey's sparring partner. 5-17-1 in 23 fights against period HOFers, that's more HOF fights than 95% in the IBHOF. Unfortunately, video pickin's for Big Bill are slim and poor quality. He gets so little respect that apparently nobody knows or has bothered to post his birth date, which may be perfectly understandable given the poor rural area and era he was born in.
Another example of what? Okay, don't necessarily disagree that Bill Tate was an underrated fighter but what's that got to do with this discussion?
I could go on, but point being that Sharkey generally has a good rating, whereas they are often dismissed out of hand as not counting for anything of note.
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I like to break down fighter's careers to see what makes them tick, and Primo's record looks a cut above his. Why that upsets people, go figure. You folks make it out to be some kind of Pearl Harbor attack on the status quo.
Doesn't upset me at all. If you go back to the start of our exchange, you are the one who started making the snide remarks, not me. I only responded in kind.
But what about Primo's game do you like? He was a big, strong guy. Not terribly quick though not abominably slow either. Good jab when he threw it, not too hard to hit, average puncher, weak chin, good stamina, lot of heart. Good fighter. Not a great but not a bum.
Me, I'm here to tell you Primo's in the IBHOF, just not yet. And no, fairplay now gents, I'm wise to your games. I never stated Tate is a HOFer. He's underrated though and interesting enough for a bio if he were alive today.
Carnera does not belong in the hall of fame.
