Has anyone seen this he makes a lot of good points and comes close to blaiming FW for the demise of british boxing... its great.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/3979655.stm
Nelson bites the hand that feeds him
Good little article. Ive never been a big fan of Nelson as a fighter but his analysis on sky shows is second to none and he is really starting to grow on me big time.
I hate the way Barry keeps butting in mid conversation week in-week out though.
Nelson is the man of the studio and will have a great career there once his in-ring career comes to an end.
I hate the way Barry keeps butting in mid conversation week in-week out though.
Nelson is the man of the studio and will have a great career there once his in-ring career comes to an end.
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Old bones Ian
- Heavyweight
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DIRT SUGAR
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 29 Aug 2003, 11:48
Okay, before I opine, let me say that I've always thought Nelson had bags of talent and the ability to be a standout champion at cruiserweight.
Johnny's a very well-preserved 37 and he always enters the ring in 100% top condition – a role model for up and coming fighters if ever there was one. And hey, in the hardest of sports I don't blame anyone for making as much money as possible by taking as easy route as can be taken in a sport where one punch could kill you... BUT!
If he's going to talk straight and give his damning verdict on the parlous state of boxing... and from where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem he's done bad out of it... then you have to ask, as one of boxing's elder statesmen, what has Johnny done to remedy the so-called poor level of bouts that are 'killing the game'. He said: "I've lost count of the number of people who have got in touch telling me fights like these are turning them off boxing." Maybe he didn't listen and he was actually told "fights like yours".
I mean, his stint as WBO has hardly been a reign of terror has it? He's not come close to fighting one of the other major title holders, in fact, his most dangerous opponent was Carl Thompson and after shamefully highjacking his post-fight interviews and hounding him for so long saying what he'd do to him he wouldn't even give The Cat a rematch!
So, Johnny carries on regardless, copping a fair few quid for defending against sparring partners and putting us to sleep in performances against the likes that Brazillian guy, George Arias (I was ringside for that and it was the most soporific display I've ever seen. As Alan Hansen might say, "woeful!"). I didn't think he could get much worse than that... but then he puts in a dreadful display against a blown-up middleweight, Guillermo Jones.
But if you're going to then talk about the state of boxing and giving the public value for money, the so-called 'Entertainer' needs to look back at some of his title defences and ask if he's not one of the causes of falling attendances because I believe that many of his defences have been tantamount to doing what he says is "killing the game", ie ripping off the paying fight fan.
Case of pot and kettle methinks.
Johnny's a very well-preserved 37 and he always enters the ring in 100% top condition – a role model for up and coming fighters if ever there was one. And hey, in the hardest of sports I don't blame anyone for making as much money as possible by taking as easy route as can be taken in a sport where one punch could kill you... BUT!
If he's going to talk straight and give his damning verdict on the parlous state of boxing... and from where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem he's done bad out of it... then you have to ask, as one of boxing's elder statesmen, what has Johnny done to remedy the so-called poor level of bouts that are 'killing the game'. He said: "I've lost count of the number of people who have got in touch telling me fights like these are turning them off boxing." Maybe he didn't listen and he was actually told "fights like yours".
I mean, his stint as WBO has hardly been a reign of terror has it? He's not come close to fighting one of the other major title holders, in fact, his most dangerous opponent was Carl Thompson and after shamefully highjacking his post-fight interviews and hounding him for so long saying what he'd do to him he wouldn't even give The Cat a rematch!
So, Johnny carries on regardless, copping a fair few quid for defending against sparring partners and putting us to sleep in performances against the likes that Brazillian guy, George Arias (I was ringside for that and it was the most soporific display I've ever seen. As Alan Hansen might say, "woeful!"). I didn't think he could get much worse than that... but then he puts in a dreadful display against a blown-up middleweight, Guillermo Jones.
But if you're going to then talk about the state of boxing and giving the public value for money, the so-called 'Entertainer' needs to look back at some of his title defences and ask if he's not one of the causes of falling attendances because I believe that many of his defences have been tantamount to doing what he says is "killing the game", ie ripping off the paying fight fan.
Case of pot and kettle methinks.
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glittermonkey
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 28 Feb 2004, 18:03
Good post. The tone of the article felt a little hypocritical to me too.
You can't accept poor fights for yourself, and then slag off managers and promoters for not getting competitive fights for their boxers. But to be fair he does say "WE cannot keep fooling the general public", so maybe that means he's going to try and set the right example to follow for the remainder of his career. Here's hoping.
You can't accept poor fights for yourself, and then slag off managers and promoters for not getting competitive fights for their boxers. But to be fair he does say "WE cannot keep fooling the general public", so maybe that means he's going to try and set the right example to follow for the remainder of his career. Here's hoping.
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DIRT SUGAR
- Heavyweight
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I don't think it's in his nature and he's a very intelligent guy who I wish nothing but good for, but you can't defend your title like he has and all of a sudden epiphany and all of a sudden start fighting the best in the division because I just don't think it's in Johnny's nature be in a blood and guts type of fight. Johnny's too clever and also just a defensive boxer by nature and against someone who's too strong or too good, he'll do what he did in fights against Carlos De Leon and James Warring and shut up shop and survive. If he proves me wrong and gets a shot against someone like Wayne Braithwaite, and manages to outslug him and beat him in a war then I will applaud him heartily, but I don't think he will.
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MightyWarrior
- Heavyweight
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rubberjohnny
- Heavyweight
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Is Nelson having a laugh?
Poor Fights, non-competitive matches and poor attendances. Ummm looks like an appraisal of his own career to me. Having said that he is excellent on Sky, as a presenter and obviously has a big future in that field but surely he should be asking his employers "why his own fights are not shown?"
I am sure their answer will be "They are non-competitve, boring and attract a poor attendance"
Pot-Kettle-Black springs to mind!!
Finally, excellent presenter yes, but how can he criticise any fighter after nearly 20 years of negative and boring fights. Oh God, what we would give to see Nelson KO someone quickly.
Poor Fights, non-competitive matches and poor attendances. Ummm looks like an appraisal of his own career to me. Having said that he is excellent on Sky, as a presenter and obviously has a big future in that field but surely he should be asking his employers "why his own fights are not shown?"
I am sure their answer will be "They are non-competitve, boring and attract a poor attendance"
Pot-Kettle-Black springs to mind!!
Finally, excellent presenter yes, but how can he criticise any fighter after nearly 20 years of negative and boring fights. Oh God, what we would give to see Nelson KO someone quickly.
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glittermonkey
- Heavyweight
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I didn't mean set the right example by fighting a style that we all want to see, and going to war with the top names.
I meant it in the sense that maybe he'll be fighting the best in the division, that would be enough for me. Win or lose, it doesn't really matter to me, but if he's going to say the things he has, then he needs to step up too, and be part of the change. Otherwise it's just a case of "do as i say, don't do as i do".
I meant it in the sense that maybe he'll be fighting the best in the division, that would be enough for me. Win or lose, it doesn't really matter to me, but if he's going to say the things he has, then he needs to step up too, and be part of the change. Otherwise it's just a case of "do as i say, don't do as i do".
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lirva33
- Heavyweight
Hypocritical or not, Nelson is 100% right.
I think Barry is great. He's a poor comentator thought from what I've seen on Bravo but he's one of the best in the studio. I wish he was a little bit sterner and called people like Hatton out on his opponents. A little more like Merchant and he'd be absolute class. Piper is poor and Smith should be dropped.
I think Barry is great. He's a poor comentator thought from what I've seen on Bravo but he's one of the best in the studio. I wish he was a little bit sterner and called people like Hatton out on his opponents. A little more like Merchant and he'd be absolute class. Piper is poor and Smith should be dropped.
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rubberjohnny
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 12 Aug 2004, 10:15
MightyWarrior wrote:Yeah I was thinking same thing - Nelson has been defending his "title" against guys like this, who no-one's heard of, for years:
Guillermo Jones
Alex Vassilev
Marcelo Fabián Domínguez
George Arias
Adam Watt
Pietro Aurino
Sione Asipeli
Willard Lewis
Dominguez was a WBC Champion - Doh!
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MightyWarrior
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 13284
- Joined: 23 Jan 2003, 14:01
MightyWarrior wrote:Yeah I was thinking same thing - Nelson has been defending his "title" against guys like this, who no-one's heard of, for years:
Guillermo Jones
Alex Vassilev
Marcelo Fabián Domínguez
George Arias
Adam Watt
Pietro Aurino
Sione Asipeli
Willard Lewis
Actually, add Sellars, May, and petkovic and his cruiserweight reign doesn't look too bad when compared with his fellow titleholders...cantatore gave braithwaite a hard time, it will not be a pretty fight...I would not be confident Nelson will return from Italy with his title....
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Bard of Boxrec
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
In fairness to Nelson, the cruiserweights are a terrible division, and I don't think there was really any willingness for any of the beltholders to face one another. There were not really any big money fights to be had, and so it was better for all concerned to just defend their titles as many times as possible.
Yes, Nelson isn't really my cup of tea to watch, but he's a bloody good professional, who has to a large extent made the most of his talents, especially when you consider his early career. He's never quite set the world on fire admittedly, but there was a point where i felt he may just have been the best cruiserweight in the world.
Yes, Nelson isn't really my cup of tea to watch, but he's a bloody good professional, who has to a large extent made the most of his talents, especially when you consider his early career. He's never quite set the world on fire admittedly, but there was a point where i felt he may just have been the best cruiserweight in the world.
Whilst I agree with most of what Nelson said the sooner he and his type retires and leaves well alone, the sooner boxer will be a better place.
In fairness to boxing fans, Nelson's career has mostly been excruciating to endure and I'll be a very happy boxing fan when he's packed the game in. His reign is as poor as Chris Eubank's. High on quantity, low on quality.
And just for good measure, and I accept I'm in the minority here, I think Nelson's a poor TV personality too. He's a typical Ingle boxer, put a mike in front of him and he'll blabber.
He comes across as smooth and confident, granted, but I feel he just says what sounds good to keep the show moving along nicely, rather than have a genuine personal opinion.
In fairness to boxing fans, Nelson's career has mostly been excruciating to endure and I'll be a very happy boxing fan when he's packed the game in. His reign is as poor as Chris Eubank's. High on quantity, low on quality.
And just for good measure, and I accept I'm in the minority here, I think Nelson's a poor TV personality too. He's a typical Ingle boxer, put a mike in front of him and he'll blabber.
He comes across as smooth and confident, granted, but I feel he just says what sounds good to keep the show moving along nicely, rather than have a genuine personal opinion.
....and it's Warren who lines up these soft defences for his boxers....but in the process rips off the boxing fans with poor quality matchups being masqueraded as title fights.
I should hope I speak for everyone when I say no one wants to see any boxers hurt whilst participating in the sport, but the fans deserve competitive top grade contests.
I should hope I speak for everyone when I say no one wants to see any boxers hurt whilst participating in the sport, but the fans deserve competitive top grade contests.
I'm not questioning that at all, I badger on about this shit as much as anyone on here. I was merely pointing out that the thread title is wrong, because promoters and managers are employed by boxers, not the other way round.THEBUTCH wrote:....and it's Warren who lines up these soft defences for his boxers....but in the process rips off the boxing fans with poor quality matchups being masqueraded as title fights.
I should hope I speak for everyone when I say no one wants to see any boxers hurt whilst participating in the sport, but the fans deserve competitive top grade contests.
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
I think there is too much shit thrown at promoters.
Naseem Hamed made more money than any other featherweight in the world, and it was because he was very well marketed. Sure, the product was pretty easy to sell, because he was such a cocky little bugger, but Warren did an amazing job. Despite some critics, Hamed was at the height of his career, when of the most talked about fighters in the game, and was a MASSIVE star on BOTH sides of the Atlantic.
It's easy to say that promoters make money off of the backs of their fighters, but it's not correct. Promoters enhance the earning potential of their charges
Hatton and Calzaghe are both millionnaires, and you have to give some credit to sports network
I'm no yes man for Sports Network, but credit where credit is due, Warren is the biggest and best promoter in the country, and the reason fighters sign with him is they know they will earn more money with allegedly than any other promoter. We may not always like the matchups that result from it, but's that an entirely different issue.
A fighter is not going to make it without the aid of a big time promoter, that's just the way it is, and I don't think it's a good idea fighters trying to promote themselves either. Fighters need to be totally focussed on the work inside the ring, and getting involved in all kinds of business aspects of their profession is only going to be a distraction.
What I do agree with though, is that there are definetly some unscrupulous operators outs there. There are a lot of fighters who have been ripped off badly, but you cannot say that promoters in their entirety have done nothing for boxers, because is patently isn't true.
As said, promoters should be the employees not the employer, but that isn't the structure of the sport, and it never has been. fighter have an uphill task in finding the right people to look after their interests.
once again, it all comes down to the lack of a proper governing body.
Naseem Hamed made more money than any other featherweight in the world, and it was because he was very well marketed. Sure, the product was pretty easy to sell, because he was such a cocky little bugger, but Warren did an amazing job. Despite some critics, Hamed was at the height of his career, when of the most talked about fighters in the game, and was a MASSIVE star on BOTH sides of the Atlantic.
It's easy to say that promoters make money off of the backs of their fighters, but it's not correct. Promoters enhance the earning potential of their charges
Hatton and Calzaghe are both millionnaires, and you have to give some credit to sports network
I'm no yes man for Sports Network, but credit where credit is due, Warren is the biggest and best promoter in the country, and the reason fighters sign with him is they know they will earn more money with allegedly than any other promoter. We may not always like the matchups that result from it, but's that an entirely different issue.
A fighter is not going to make it without the aid of a big time promoter, that's just the way it is, and I don't think it's a good idea fighters trying to promote themselves either. Fighters need to be totally focussed on the work inside the ring, and getting involved in all kinds of business aspects of their profession is only going to be a distraction.
What I do agree with though, is that there are definetly some unscrupulous operators outs there. There are a lot of fighters who have been ripped off badly, but you cannot say that promoters in their entirety have done nothing for boxers, because is patently isn't true.
As said, promoters should be the employees not the employer, but that isn't the structure of the sport, and it never has been. fighter have an uphill task in finding the right people to look after their interests.
once again, it all comes down to the lack of a proper governing body.