HOLYFIELD LOSES GRIP ON REALITY WITH EACH DAY!

[Deserter]

Well you might want to think about the fact that Holyfield SHOULD be the WBA heavyweight champion of the world right now, when you assess whether or not he "deserves" a fight with David Haye.

I can't comment as I didn't see the fight, but most reports I've read have said that Holyfield made a fight of it but didn't deserve the W in his record - it clearly wasn't the robbery you're proclaiming it to be.

[Deserter]

By the man knocked down by, deep breath, Carl Thompson, Lolengla Mock, Jean Marc mormeck, Monte Barrett ... is there anyone else?

You totally dont give Holyfield any credit for the Valuev performance, yet you give Haye credit for .... ??

I give Haye credit for being the undisputed champ at Cruiser and on the basis of his potential. From memory against Thompson he was stopped on his feet and fighters like Trinidad and De La Hoya visited the canvas on occasion - I'm not suggesting that Haye is in those rarified ranks, but equally, you can't write him off on the basis of those fights.
Styles make fights, and should Haye get past Valuev I am willing to bet every penny that if he ended up facing Holyfield he would have a field day with the old man, adminstering a one-sided beating, and then the next second everyone would be on here saying how sad it was that Evander had been allowed to fight at that age and that it had been a mismatch.

[Wales]

Styles do make fights, and Haye would (in my opinion) beat Holyfield. But the argument here is Holyfield doesnt deserve his shot, when in reality, he's just been jobbed in Germany against the current champion.

Holyfield is one of the (or THE) greatest cruiserweight champion ever,a nd even in defeat has been immensly competative in his last two outings -(let alone the 4 wins previous to those).

I do think people are catching the Haye bandwagon, which could (and in my opinion will) come to a thunderous halt in November.

[opticald]

Well you might want to think about the fact that Holyfield SHOULD be the WBA heavyweight champion of the world right now, when you assess whether or not he "deserves" a fight with David Haye.

I can't comment as I didn't see the fight, but most reports I've read have said that Holyfield made a fight of it but didn't deserve the W in his record - it clearly wasn't the robbery you're proclaiming it to be.

Ah I see. Well, you should watch the fight then and you will change your mind. it was a shameful robbery.

[Deserter]

Well you might want to think about the fact that Holyfield SHOULD be the WBA heavyweight champion of the world right now, when you assess whether or not he "deserves" a fight with David Haye.

I can't comment as I didn't see the fight, but most reports I've read have said that Holyfield made a fight of it but didn't deserve the W in his record - it clearly wasn't the robbery you're proclaiming it to be.

Ah I see. Well, you should watch the fight then and you will change your mind. it was a shameful robbery.

So how do you account for the majority of reports that said Holyfield was competitive but didn't do enough work to earn the win? I could easily post some links up here but they're all in the public domain and you're presumably already aware of them.

[Deserter]

Styles do make fights, and Haye would (in my opinion) beat Holyfield. But the argument here is Holyfield doesnt deserve his shot, when in reality, he's just been jobbed in Germany against the current champion.

Holyfield is one of the (or THE) greatest cruiserweight champion ever,a nd even in defeat has been immensly competative in his last two outings -(let alone the 4 wins previous to those).

I do think people are catching the Haye bandwagon, which could (and in my opinion will) come to a thunderous halt in November.

And my point is that Holyfield has already had more chances than he deserves at regaining the crown. Being competitive in losing outings (and on that note he wasn't remotely competitive aginst Ibragimov) and not having a meaningful win at heavy for seven years do not constitute justification for yet another shot at the title in my opinion.
Jesus, people were calling on him to retire after his beating at the hands of Toney six years ago and he's now 46 years of age! Yes, he's had an amazing career, but let him leave on a high with the contentious nature of the Valuev defeat - not after getting a mauling at the hands of a young lion... we've all seen that happen too many times in boxing to want to see it again.
While I think Haye can win, even if it was Chagaev, for example, facing Valuev and winning, I wouldn't want Holyfield to be the first challenger for his title - the Haye bandwagon isn't a factor in my opposition to Holy being wheeled out once again.

[opticald]

So how do you account for the majority of reports that said Holyfield was competitive but didn't do enough work to earn the win? I could easily post some links up here but they're all in the public domain and you're presumably already aware of them.

How do you account for the majority of people claiming Holyfield got robbed? The smart way is to watch the entire fight for yourself and make your own judgement rather than relying on what people say.

This is part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y3TCQlEwRc

You can find the rest on youtube.

[opticald]

Styles do make fights, and Haye would (in my opinion) beat Holyfield. But the argument here is Holyfield doesnt deserve his shot, when in reality, he's just been jobbed in Germany against the current champion.

Holyfield is one of the (or THE) greatest cruiserweight champion ever,a nd even in defeat has been immensly competative in his last two outings -(let alone the 4 wins previous to those).

I do think people are catching the Haye bandwagon, which could (and in my opinion will) come to a thunderous halt in November.

And my point is that Holyfield has already had more chances than he deserves at regaining the crown. Being competitive in losing outings (and on that note he wasn't remotely competitive aginst Ibragimov) and not having a meaningful win at heavy for seven years do not constitute justification for yet another shot at the title in my opinion.
Jesus, people were calling on him to retire after his beating at the hands of Toney six years ago and he's now 46 years of age! Yes, he's had an amazing career, but let him leave on a high with the contentious nature of the Valuev defeat - not after getting a mauling at the hands of a young lion... we've all seen that happen too many times in boxing to want to see it again.
While I think Haye can win, even if it was Chagaev, for example, facing Valuev and winning, I wouldn't want Holyfield to be the first challenger for his title - the Haye bandwagon isn't a factor in my opposition to Holy being wheeled out once again.

You can't seem to address the fact that HOLYFIELD GOT ROBBED AGAINST VALUEV AND SHOULD BE THE RIGHTFUL CHAMPION RIGHT NOW.

[Wales]

not having a meaningful win at heavy for seven years do not constitute justification for yet another shot at the title in my opinion.

Compared to hayes meaningful win?

Fres Oquendo is just as meaningful as Monte Barrett.

Im leaving it where it is for now, but all I'll say is when a fighter lsoes a fight controversially, away from home, on the away promoters card, on points, it usually gives them a right of passage for a rematch.

Also, I didnt see the Ibragimov fight as a one sided beatdown. Yes, Sultan won, but it wasnt a Lewis Tua or anything like that. Sultan just beat Holy to the punch.

[Deserter]

Styles do make fights, and Haye would (in my opinion) beat Holyfield. But the argument here is Holyfield doesnt deserve his shot, when in reality, he's just been jobbed in Germany against the current champion.

Holyfield is one of the (or THE) greatest cruiserweight champion ever,a nd even in defeat has been immensly competative in his last two outings -(let alone the 4 wins previous to those).

I do think people are catching the Haye bandwagon, which could (and in my opinion will) come to a thunderous halt in November.

And my point is that Holyfield has already had more chances than he deserves at regaining the crown. Being competitive in losing outings (and on that note he wasn't remotely competitive aginst Ibragimov) and not having a meaningful win at heavy for seven years do not constitute justification for yet another shot at the title in my opinion.
Jesus, people were calling on him to retire after his beating at the hands of Toney six years ago and he's now 46 years of age! Yes, he's had an amazing career, but let him leave on a high with the contentious nature of the Valuev defeat - not after getting a mauling at the hands of a young lion... we've all seen that happen too many times in boxing to want to see it again.
While I think Haye can win, even if it was Chagaev, for example, facing Valuev and winning, I wouldn't want Holyfield to be the first challenger for his title - the Haye bandwagon isn't a factor in my opposition to Holy being wheeled out once again.

You can't seem to address the fact that HOLYFIELD GOT ROBBED AGAINST VALUEV AND SHOULD BE THE RIGHTFUL CHAMPION RIGHT NOW.

And as I've previously stated, which you can't seem to grasp, yours is a statement of opinion rather than fact, and I've read other opinions that directly disagree with yours.
We can continue to debate this point, but ultimately it's irrevelent to my main point, which is that should Haye triumph, Holyfield should not be his first challenger for all the reasons I've already outlined.

[opticald]

You would find my opinion on the Valuev Holyfield fight a fact if you actually watched the fight yourself.

[Deserter]

not having a meaningful win at heavy for seven years do not constitute justification for yet another shot at the title in my opinion.

Compared to hayes meaningful win?

Fres Oquendo is just as meaningful as Monte Barrett.

Im leaving it where it is for now, but all I'll say is when a fighter lsoes a fight controversially, away from home, on the away promoters card, on points, it usually gives them a right of passage for a rematch.

Also, I didnt see the Ibragimov fight as a one sided beatdown. Yes, Sultan won, but it wasnt a Lewis Tua or anything like that. Sultan just beat Holy to the punch.

You're missing my point - I don't actually think Haye's done enough at heavy to justify his shot, but that doesn't in any way change my opinion on Holyfield being entitled to challenge.
And yes, of course I'm aware of the generic precedent, but you can't ignore specifics and Holy is, in my opinion, a 46-year-old man who is one fight away from a beating that no-one wants to see him take. Valuev was the only type of fight that could make him look remotely competitive at heavy because of his complete lack of speed and comparative lack of KO power - he was almost purpose-built to flatter Holyfield. Against Haye and a few others, Evander ends up getting that beating that everyone thought he'd be taking on a regular basis after Toney.
As for Ibragimov, I never stated it was a 'beat-down', just that it was one-sided, rather than competitive, which you now appear to agree with judging by what you've just posted.
I'm off down the boozer now so signing off as well. No hard feelings, just agree to disagree and at least the differing predictions for Haye vs Valuev prove that it's that rarity at heavyweight - a genuinely intriguing fight where it's possible to make a genuine, bonefide case for a number of outcomes

[Deserter]

You would find my opinion on the Valuev Holyfield fight a fact if you actually watched the fight yourself.

Even if I agree with you after I watch it, it remains an opinion, as does mine. The only fact can be seen when you look at the fighters respective records in the W/L column unfortunately.

[Wales]

comparative lack of KO power

Going to regret that comment sunshine

As for hard feelings, no, not over the boxing, "opinion forum" and like arseholes everyone has one. As for you going to the pub, well,thats a different matter ... tw@!

[stujones]

People have forgotton that Holyfield was a fairly late opponent for Ibragimov. Think he had a months notice.

I agree that he DIDN'T deserve his shot with Valuev, but he got it and should have got the victory. He should be entitled to a rematch before Haye IMO. Now that the Chagaev situation has sorted itself out, Holy should have been forced to fight the winner of the Chagaev vs Valuev fight. The WBA have been out of order in their treatment of Evander. From, reviewing tapes to see if the decision should be over turned... to not even including him in the rankings!

[Autobarn]

that valuev fight was terrible and evander just didn't do enough bloody punching to have won that fight.

can't see what there is for him unless he fights past it cruiserweights and light heavyweights, or heavyweight ex champs as old as himself, or butterbean, or kimbo slice (in a casino parking lot, with rematch to be in boxing ring), or rolls royce gracie (boxing rules), or whatever.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Well you might want to think about the fact that Holyfield SHOULD be the WBA heavyweight champion of the world right now, when you assess whether or not he "deserves" a fight with David Haye.

- Ah ha hah hah, he was booted off dancing with stars and then booted off the Big Niko exhibition for a new dance partner.

I should be happy to slap the seven Sundays out of him for a bucket of chicken and a deep fried peach pie. Alas, it's more than a day's hike through the primordial forest to his quarters from the perimeter and then a week's worth of searches of the mega monstrosity he lives in only to find out he's flown to Timbuktu for a charity Hep C & Hard Heart fundraiser cum Chadian heavyweight title scrap against local legend Mighty Joe Tiger.

Ah ha hah hah, need a bulk section 8 assessment for the lot of his fans who take to hollering gibberish spontaneously when ever Mr. Field comes up.

[hitman_hatton1]

such a shame he can't let go.

every boxing fan respects holyfield.

still not seen the valuev fight.

started watching about 2 minutes of it and turned it off.

[zzutak]

As far as I'm aware isn't the winner of Valuev v. Haye obliged to fight Ruiz next? Ruiz should have been fighting Valuev for some reason or other that I forget, but he's accepted 'step aside' money and a place on the undercard (originally against poor Michael Sprott, but not sure if this will happen now after the terrible loss of Michael's sister) with the assurance he gets first shot at the winner. If this is the case Holyfield will be kept waiting at least another year for his 'shot' and regress even further (would he dare have a warm up bout?) Holyfield should pack it in now and go out on the high of the Valuev 'defeat', I fear he won't though and will carry on till someone gives him a real beating

One horrible thought; if Haye beats Valuev and indeed faces Ruiz in his first defense, can you imagine if Haye doesn't manage to stop Ruiz early (apart from the early career loss to Tua it's never happened) get's involved in an atypical Ruiz maul and fatigued from his early round exertions drops a decision to him ?

[mickeyb]

Holyfield is an Argyle fan and, as such, is beyond reproach.

Although it may prove the original post about him losing his grip on reality...

[Matchfixer]

Well you might want to think about the fact that Holyfield SHOULD be the WBA heavyweight champion of the world right now, when you assess whether or not he "deserves" a fight with David Haye.

I can't comment as I didn't see the fight, but most reports I've read have said that Holyfield made a fight of it but didn't deserve the W in his record - it clearly wasn't the robbery you're proclaiming it to be.

Ah I see. Well, you should watch the fight then and you will change your mind. it was a shameful robbery.

Oh come on. Holyfield threw about 4 meaningful punches a round at most, all the while circling around Valuev. At least Valuev - despite his almost non existant workrate - was prepared to stick in the middle of the ring and fight and that was more than enough to swing the vote in his favour for me.

There was nothing shameful whatever result was given as hardly a punch was thrown by either man all night. Definitely no robbery involved in a fight which looked like a warm up for a sparring session.

[crusader]

Fighting Holyfield would be a joke, I can't believe some people support the idea of Haye fighting a 46 year old who hasn't won a meaningful fight since barley scrapping by Rahman in 2002. I mean Larry Donald took Holyfield to school ffs. I thought Haye was supposed to be something else? I thought he was supposed to be a fresh breath of air in the HW division who only takes on the best guys? Picking on an old, shot fighter like Holyfield proves nothing other than the fact that Hayes words don't reflect his actions. The Klitschko's would never take a fight like that yet they are bashed all the time for fighting opponents who are much better than Holyfield at this point.

[mickey1975]

Fighting Holyfield would be a joke, I can't believe some people support the idea of Haye fighting a 46 year old who hasn't won a meaningful fight since barley scrapping by Rahman in 2002. I mean Larry Donald took Holyfield to school ffs. I thought Haye was supposed to be something else? I thought he was supposed to be a fresh breath of air in the HW division who only takes on the best guys? Picking on an old, shot fighter like Holyfield proves nothing other than the fact that Hayes words don't reflect his actions. The Klitschko's would never take a fight like that yet they are bashed all the time for fighting opponents who are much better than Holyfield at this point.

he hasnt beat valuev yet,let alone signed to fight evander!give him a chance!

[crusader]

Fighting Holyfield would be a joke, I can't believe some people support the idea of Haye fighting a 46 year old who hasn't won a meaningful fight since barley scrapping by Rahman in 2002. I mean Larry Donald took Holyfield to school ffs. I thought Haye was supposed to be something else? I thought he was supposed to be a fresh breath of air in the HW division who only takes on the best guys? Picking on an old, shot fighter like Holyfield proves nothing other than the fact that Hayes words don't reflect his actions. The Klitschko's would never take a fight like that yet they are bashed all the time for fighting opponents who are much better than Holyfield at this point.

he hasnt beat valuev yet,let alone signed to fight evander!give him a chance!

I'm giving him a chance, but if he beats Valuev and fights Evander it will be a complete joke. I don't understand how some people can think there is nothing wrong with fighting Holyfield.

[opticald]

Fighting Holyfield would be a joke, I can't believe some people support the idea of Haye fighting a 46 year old who hasn't won a meaningful fight since barley scrapping by Rahman in 2002. I mean Larry Donald took Holyfield to school ffs. I thought Haye was supposed to be something else? I thought he was supposed to be a fresh breath of air in the HW division who only takes on the best guys? Picking on an old, shot fighter like Holyfield proves nothing other than the fact that Hayes words don't reflect his actions. The Klitschko's would never take a fight like that yet they are bashed all the time for fighting opponents who are much better than Holyfield at this point.

he hasnt beat valuev yet,let alone signed to fight evander!give him a chance!

I'm giving him a chance, but if he beats Valuev and fights Evander it will be a complete joke. I don't understand how some people can think there is nothing wrong with fighting Holyfield.

Maybe it's because Holyfield should have the title Haye is fighting for.