The psychology of a big puncher...

Jedi Knight · Post by **Jedi Knight** » 09 Nov 2004, 13:33

Noticed over the last few years that we have had quite a few big punchers go off the rails. There seems to be a pattern forming here, not just in the UK but everywhere.

To pick some examples; Gary locket was the next big thing and as soon as he was put in against a half decent boxer he fell apart.
Wayne alexander is another one, he was ripping up trees at one stage giving Simon a stern test at short notice but he got knocked sparko.

I was also watching the big mexican prospect, Marco Antonio Rubio who had pretty much taken out all his opponents in the early rounds and then fell apart in the first against Jantuah in just 33 seconds.

Is this possibly because they rely too much on the power and then ignore everything else..??
Could it be that they get overconfident and assume that whatever happens their power will get them out of any situation..?

Noticed when allot of hot prospects start a fight and have a reputation as a big puncher they seem to just load up and forget how to box.....is this inexperience or are allot of these boys just arrogant...?

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 09 Nov 2004, 13:44

definately, things come a bit easy for them i think....

Wayne realised this eventually and is now training properly

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 09 Nov 2004, 13:45

I believe that some punchers really do get complacent. Some also start believing their own press. When they come up against someone with a decent chin, they don't have a plan B, or are too surprised to put it into action.

There is also the 'rounds' argument. If they are sparking people inside six minutes all the time, when they have someone who rides out the rough patch and takes them into the later rounds, they are knackered (David Haye being the most recent - I don't care what anyone says, I was there and he was puffing like an asthmatic pit pony after a few sessions).

However, big punchers often don't have great chins. That's life. How often do you see the opposite too - that Morales guy who stood up to Guzman at the weekend being the most recent.

Really big punchers with great chins are a rarity.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 09 Nov 2004, 13:50

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
Really big punchers with great chins are a rarity.

and when they do come along they are even harder to control than the big punchers..

McCall great punch superb chin, substance abuse
Tua great punch great chin, food addict
JL Lopez, great chin and great punch, party animal
Mercer great punch great chin

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 09 Nov 2004, 13:58

knockout wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
Really big punchers with great chins are a rarity.

and when they do come along they are even harder to control than the big punchers..

McCall great punch superb chin, substance abuse
Tua great punch great chin, food addict
JL Lopez, great chin and great punch, party animal
Mercer great punch great chin

Excellent examples. Mercer was perhaps the most underrated heavy of his day.

Anyone else think of great punch/great chin combinations - whether they did well or not for some reason?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 Nov 2004, 13:59

All true, and I'm speaking from both a qualified Sport Psychologist and as an amateur with a decent dig.

I lost my last fight (too many years ago) because I knew I wasn't 100% fit, I had a fever. But it was a show I didn't want to miss (as I was 2nd to last fight on a home show). I didn't think I was going to lose, even my coach said "you land flush and its over" and that was the attitude I took.

I was stopped in the 2nd, I had no snap and everything went to pot. I shouldn't have taken the fight but I thought my punch would get me out of jail. I'm sure alot of other fighters have thought like that and thats why they don't often train like they should (i.e Naseem).

Despite my setback, I still sometimes think like that when I'm training by myself.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 09 Nov 2004, 14:16

Tyson and Foreman are great examples of how far you can go with a big punch and a great chin.

I was thinking about the "punchers syndrom" last night, when I stuck in a tape of the ultimate battle of the punchers from the 70's - "The Battle Of The Z Boys" ( thanks Red Dragon

)

Carlos Zarate v Alfonso Zamora - the WBA and WBC bantam champs who met in a non title fight ( yes, we've always had these crazy rules )
Both undefeated in 80 odd fights, 79 knockouts.
They start cautiously, but within 2 minutes start swapping bombs like true Mexicans.
My god, the hellacious shots these two crash off each other is just unbelievable. Both show great chins, but Zarate just imposes his will on Zamora, walking through some unbelievable fire power to crack home his own TNT bombs. Both refuse to lose, getting shaken up with almighty shots, only to come bombing back.
Zarate finaly bombs out Zamora in the 4th, and it was as if Zamora suddenly realised he could lose ( because I don't think he thought it possible beforehand ) and went on to lose his title by knockout in his next fight.
The great Zarate finaly met his match when he went over to Puerto Rico and was blasted out by the magnificent Wilfredo Bazooka Gomez.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 09 Nov 2004, 14:19

You just can't get enough of those crazy Latinos, MW!

Seriously, I'll have to get that fight off our pal Red Dragon - sounds a classic and I've never seen it.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 09 Nov 2004, 14:24

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:You just can't get enough of those crazy Latinos, MW!

Seriously, I'll have to get that fight off our pal Red Dragon - sounds a classic and I've never seen it.

I know it mate

Seriously, get hold of it, plus the Gomez/Zarate showdown ( 5 rounds ) Just amazing to see Gomez handle the Mexican legend.
And you get to see UK ref Harry Gibbs completely lose control of the fight, as Gomez pays NO attention to the bell, and anything else for that matter!

Plus a nutter jumps into the ring during the Z-Boys fight, and starts to perform a Kung Fu routine! Just before 10 LAPD rush the ring and take him off for what looked like being a serious beating.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 09 Nov 2004, 15:41

Aren’t `big punchers` normally a front foot fighter?
I mean they tend to be the ones pushing forward throwing the big shots, so when they themselves get tagged they are moving into the punch and so enhance the damage.
Where as the back foot fighter is moving away from it.
Nigel Benn usually gets the puncher with the susceptible chin tag, but when Benn was tagged and shook it was when he came forward and the punch really smacked some.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 09 Nov 2004, 15:49

tonyevs wrote:Aren’t `big punchers` normally a front foot fighter?
I mean they tend to be the ones pushing forward throwing the big shots, so when they themselves get tagged they are moving into the punch and so enhance the damage.
Where as the back foot fighter is moving away from it.
Nigel Benn usually gets the puncher with the susceptible chin tag, but when Benn was tagged and shook it was when he came forward and the punch really smacked some.

I know what you mean but you are being very kind to Nige there. I remember him getting tagged right at the end of his second contest with Mauro Galvano. It didn't seem anything much and as Nigel had it in the bag, I don't think he was coming forward.

It shook him and Galvano went for it but he'd left it too late. He was in tears afterwards knowing he could have had Benn in big trouble if he'd actually bothered to have a real go. His own fault.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 09 Nov 2004, 16:22

Yes I remember that fight, Galvano tagged him out of nowhere from what I remember, he hadn`t threatened much up until then though had he.
Sure Nigel got tagged, probably as much surprised as anything..but sure he got tagged, but wasn`t he pushing forward at the time, like he had to do for much of the fight.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 09 Nov 2004, 16:24

Nige went over from a jab against Watson, the prefect example of a puncher getting discouraged when his big punches don't have any effect...

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 09 Nov 2004, 16:25

Naz seemed to have a pretty good chin with his power. About that Gomez/Zarate fight. Had that happened in a neutral venue I suspect it would have been a lot closer. Gomez would have been disqualified for hitting Zarate with huge shot when he was down. Marciano another one with punch and chin.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 09 Nov 2004, 16:29

MightyWarrior wrote:Nige went over from a jab against Watson, the prefect example of a puncher getting discouraged when his big punches don't have any effect...

A better example would be a puncher punching himself out..he was knackered.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 10 Nov 2004, 12:17

looking back a bit, how about Colin Jones, took some great shots against McCory , Laing, Curry and had a good whack on him

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 10 Nov 2004, 12:41

tonyevs wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:Nige went over from a jab against Watson, the prefect example of a puncher getting discouraged when his big punches don't have any effect...
A better example would be a puncher punching himself out..he was knackered.

Yep, nige figured if he kept hammering at the gloves eventually he'd stop Watson, bad plan.