Valuev is a better boxer than Haye

[opticald]

I believe Valuev is a better all round boxer than Haye.

He has a much better jab and better all round skills. Haye is faster with his punches and has faster movement around the ring.

Valuev has huge size and reach advantages. I believe Valuev has good power and their chins are incomparable... Valuevs chin is much sturdier.

Valuev has never been hurt or down. Haye has been down numerous times. His chin hasn't improved. He is still chinny and may go down very quickly in this fight.

Haye does not have the defensive skills of a Chagaev or Holyfield. He does not hold like a Ruiz. I do not believe he will go through the fight with valuev and not get hit. He may hit valuev but I do not believe he can KO Valuev. I do not believe he can get a decision in Germany.

Valuev wins this fight. The odds are outrageous and I will be having a big bet on Valuev. I suggest others follow.

[Asterix]

I think even Valuev would admit Haye's boxing skills are superior. His game plan will be to use his physicality.

[opticald]

I think even Valuev would admit Haye's boxing skills are superior. His game plan will be to use his physicality.

Haye has a speed advantage and a lateral movement advantage, thats it. They are not equal with respect to the jab for example, valuevs is miles better. chinwise, there is no comparison.

[Hagler2002]

Here fishy fishy fishy.

[Jon Saxon]

I think even Valuev would admit Haye's boxing skills are superior. His game plan will be to use his physicality.

Haye has a speed advantage and a lateral movement advantage, thats it. They are not equal with respect to the jab for example, valuevs is miles better. chinwise, there is no comparison.

What total shite you write.
Given the title of your thread your lack of knowledge insults me.
Valuevs jab is longer and thats all there is to it, this thread is dumb.

[rhino222]

I believe Valuev is a better all round boxer than Haye.

He has a much better jab and better all round skills. Haye is faster with his punches and has faster movement around the ring.

Valuev has huge size and reach advantages. I believe Valuev has good power and their chins are incomparable... Valuevs chin is much sturdier.

Valuev has never been hurt or down. Haye has been down numerous times. His chin hasn't improved. He is still chinny and may go down very quickly in this fight.

Haye does not have the defensive skills of a Chagaev or Holyfield. He does not hold like a Ruiz. I do not believe he will go through the fight with valuev and not get hit. He may hit valuev but I do not believe he can KO Valuev. I do not believe he can get a decision in Germany.

Valuev wins this fight. The odds are outrageous and I will be having a big bet on Valuev. I suggest others follow.

i actually agree with you, your post does make sense, haye will not KO valuev with a single shot, and the big fella, although been buzzed a few times, has never tasted the canvas. if haye gets caught, then the fight may well be over, i can see haye getting caught, trying to hold on, and valuev throwing him against the ropes like a rag doll, then stopping him. and it might not go too many rounds if that is the case.

haye does have a chance, with 100% focus, speed and lateral movement. but if haye cant drop fragomenni, then he aint gonna stop valuev !!

[tonyevs]

Opticald .. or Lirva??

Is this thread a protest against a previous thread that upset you?

[opticald]

I think even Valuev would admit Haye's boxing skills are superior. His game plan will be to use his physicality.

Haye has a speed advantage and a lateral movement advantage, thats it. They are not equal with respect to the jab for example, valuevs is miles better. chinwise, there is no comparison.

What total shite you write.
Given the title of your thread your lack of knowledge insults me.
Valuevs jab is longer and thats all there is to it, this thread is dumb.

Well, we'll see what happens. I don't believe Haye is a better boxer than Valuev. Has Haye got a better defense? No. Better jab? No. Valuev uses his size in the ring and fights big. It takes a skilled fighter like Holy/Chagaev or a Ruiz type who holds very often, to actually do well with Valuev. Haye tries to fight from the outside and is totally in love with his power. He will have difficulty SLIPPING THE JAB for a start.

[crusader]

Except for the Valuev being a better all round boxer, much of what he says makes sense. He does have a good jab, seems durable, and is fighting at home. Haye is going to have to go rounds and as the fight progresses I wonder how he will handle such a big body on him. If he tires and Valuev is still there and punching Haye will be in big trouble. He is not a defensive genius who will be able to dodge every shot Valuev throws when he is tired, and we all know hes chinny, if he gets hit hard he will be hurt. For me its a matter of Haye's stamina holding up and not getting caught with a big right hand. Valuev isn't a huge puncher but he hits just as hard as Mock, Thompson, and Mormeck.

55/45 fight for Haye, whose win over Monte Barrett seems less impressive after the fat slob Solis destroyed him in two rounds without being dropped

[Jon Saxon]

[/quote]

Well, we'll see what happens. I don't believe Haye is a better boxer than Valuev. Has Haye got a better defense? No. Better jab? No. Valuev uses his size in the ring and fights big. It takes a skilled fighter like Holy/Chagaev or a Ruiz type who holds very often, to actually do well with Valuev. Haye tries to fight from the outside and is totally in love with his power. He will have difficulty SLIPPING THE JAB for a start.[/quote]

Pay attention, the outcome has no bearing on the skillset.

Valuev will win because of one thing SIZE.
Other than chin there is no area that he comes near Haye in terms of skill.

[opticald]

Well, we'll see what happens. I don't believe Haye is a better boxer than Valuev. Has Haye got a better defense? No. Better jab? No. Valuev uses his size in the ring and fights big. It takes a skilled fighter like Holy/Chagaev or a Ruiz type who holds very often, to actually do well with Valuev. Haye tries to fight from the outside and is totally in love with his power. He will have difficulty SLIPPING THE JAB for a start.[/quote]

Pay attention, the outcome has no bearing on the skillset.

Valuev will win because of one thing SIZE.
Other than chin there is no area that he comes near Haye in terms of skill.[/quote]

Using his size is skill.

[Jon Saxon]

Well, we'll see what happens. I don't believe Haye is a better boxer than Valuev. Has Haye got a better defense? No. Better jab? No. Valuev uses his size in the ring and fights big. It takes a skilled fighter like Holy/Chagaev or a Ruiz type who holds very often, to actually do well with Valuev. Haye tries to fight from the outside and is totally in love with his power. He will have difficulty SLIPPING THE JAB for a start.

Pay attention, the outcome has no bearing on the skillset.

Valuev will win because of one thing SIZE.
Other than chin there is no area that he comes near Haye in terms of skill.[/quote]

Using his size is skill.[/quote]

Sorry I thought we were discusing the boxing skills of both fighters, not the actuall size of Valuev.

Haye is better in every dept except chin, Valuev using his "size" is a total cop out on your part.

Lets get down to the nitty gritty, explain to me (in detail) how Valuevs slow but accurate jab is better than Hayes fast head popping jab?

DO NOT cop out of this one.

[Jon Saxon]

He wont be back Mark

[Jon Saxon]

Ah I see.

[opticald]

Sorry I thought we were discusing the boxing skills of both fighters, not the actuall size of Valuev.

Haye is better in every dept except chin, Valuev using his "size" is a total cop out on your part.

Lets get down to the nitty gritty, explain to me (in detail) how Valuevs slow but accurate jab is better than Hayes fast head popping jab?

DO NOT cop out of this one.

You don't seem to have good boxing knowledge. Or maybe you don't have good comprehension levels.

Valuev uses his jab much much better than Haye. Valuev is not just a big man, he is a big man with a jab. Do you understand my point about uses his size being a skill? It doesn't seem like you have the ability to understand that. Haye doesn't have the defensive skills of a holyfield or chagaev. Holyfield even at this stage of his career has a MUCH better defense than Haye and can use distance better. Same with Chagaev. Valuev wouldn't be KOd by Carl Thompson or put down by Lolenga Mock or Mormeck. He wasn't hurt by Barrett. No chance, he has a MUCH better defense than Haye.

You don't seem to appreciate that Valuev has a jab. Watch the Monte Barrett fight. Valuevs jab is one of the best in the heavyweight division. If you can't get past his jab, you will have problems. Haye has not got the skills to continually slip Valuevs jab. It will be a nightmare for Haye, to get through. His only chance is to land a big right hand and KO Valuev. Sure, he has a small punchers chance but he doesn't have the ability to outbox Valuev over the long haul.

He won't be getting a decision. Hayes stamina isn't near as good as valuevs either. haye doesn't have the skills of someone like Holyfield to stay OUTSIDE of Valuev and still be effective. Haye can only win by KO here and he knows it himself. Unfortunately, Valuev has a granite chin.

[Deserter]

He will have difficulty SLIPPING THE JAB for a start.

I doubt it - he'll have time to pop home for a cuppa while he's waiting for Valuev's ponderous jab to reach him.
I finally got round to watching some of the Holyfield fight at the weekend and it appeared to confirm what I'd suspected, which is that Valuev is regressing as a fighter, not progressing.
As someone else speculated in another thread, this could genuinely be related to his condition (acromegaly).
Either way I think Haye's speed is going to trouble him.

[opticald]

I actually want Haye to win, but don't think he will. I am calling it like I see it.

haye doesn't have the ability of a Holyfield or a chagaev to stay outside and be effective. Plus his chi is so poor, nowhere near the level of holy or chagaev. He is unable to tie up like a ruiz.

Honestly, haye will have to go some rounds in this fight and I don't think he will be able to keep it up over the long haul. this isn't Enzo macarinell he is fighting

[Jon Saxon]

Sorry I thought we were discusing the boxing skills of both fighters, not the actuall size of Valuev.

Haye is better in every dept except chin, Valuev using his "size" is a total cop out on your part.

Lets get down to the nitty gritty, explain to me (in detail) how Valuevs slow but accurate jab is better than Hayes fast head popping jab?

DO NOT cop out of this one.

You don't seem to have good boxing knowledge. Or maybe you don't have good comprehension levels.

Valuev uses his jab much much better than Haye. Valuev is not just a big man, he is a big man with a jab. Do you understand my point about uses his size being a skill? It doesn't seem like you have the ability to understand that. Haye doesn't have the defensive skills of a holyfield or chagaev. Holyfield even at this stage of his career has a MUCH better defense than Haye and can use distance better. Same with Chagaev. Valuev wouldn't be KOd by Carl Thompson or put down by Lolenga Mock or Mormeck. He wasn't hurt by Barrett. No chance, he has a MUCH better defense than Haye.

You don't seem to appreciate that Valuev has a jab. Watch the Monte Barrett fight. Valuevs jab is one of the best in the heavyweight division. If you can't get past his jab, you will have problems. Haye has not got the skills to continually slip Valuevs jab. It will be a nightmare for Haye, to get through. His only chance is to land a big right hand and KO Valuev. Sure, he has a small punchers chance but he doesn't have the ability to outbox Valuev over the long haul.

He won't be getting a decision. Hayes stamina isn't near as good as valuevs either. haye doesn't have the skills of someone like Holyfield to stay OUTSIDE of Valuev and still be effective. Haye can only win by KO here and he knows it himself. Unfortunately, Valuev has a granite chin.

I am not debating about Valuev using his size advantage, I'm talking about both fighters basic boxing skills you dolt.

Outwith 'size' your points make no sense and are therefore invalid.

The bottom line is that I would like it to look like Moorer Vs White but it's going to look like Valuev Vs Barret for around 3 to 5 rounds max methinks.

[opticald]

I am not debating about Valuev using his size advantage, I'm talking about both fighters basic boxing skills you dolt.

Outwith 'size' your points make no sense and are therefore invalid.

The bottom line is that I would like it to look like Moorer Vs White but it's going to look like Valuev Vs Barret for around 3 to 5 rounds max methinks.

Again you can't grasp my point about using his size being a skill. I didn't expect you to.

Valuev is a more complete boxer than Haye in my opinion. Better defense, better chin, better stamina, better jab and uses his size well. Haye has more speed and is more mobile. Valuev is not the best fighter out there by a long way but very decent and underrated imo. Lets see what happens, but don't be surprised to see Haye having big difficulties in the fight. He won't be KOing Valuev. Winning on points isn't an option either.

People are behaving like Haye is Suger Ray Leonard in this fight when he will be trouble just getting past Valuevs jab for a start. if ONE big right hand from valuev lands, it won't be long before haye is in a horizontal position.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

He won't be getting a decision. Hayes stamina isn't near as good as valuevs either. haye doesn't have the skills of someone like Holyfield to stay OUTSIDE of Valuev and still be effective. Haye can only win by KO here and he knows it himself. Unfortunately, Valuev has a granite chin.

- Always amusing to see a Mr. Field houseboy exchanging torrid handbag assualts with a bunch of Mr. Davy houseboys.

The best Mr. Field who ever existed might be able to beat Valuev, but nobody beats him from the outside for obvious reasons. Anyone with any success has to be able to get inside his reach and make him pay consistently through the whole of the fight. Nobody thus far has had any success doing that because he possesses an uppercut from hell, which means they come in for single shots and then hold on for dear life for the ref to break.

Mr. Haye possesses approx the same offensive skill set as Valuev, the basics covered. Neither noted for footwork or defense, and both make good use of their strengths, Valuev his size and strength, Haye his power and speed.

What wins the day for Value is intimidation, stamina, and chin. Of those attributes, on a scale of 10, Big Nik is 10 and Mr. Haye is something like a 3, barely just above a pipsqueak.

[TerribleTerry]

- Always amusing to see a Mr. Field houseboy exchanging torrid handbag assualts with a bunch of Mr. Davy houseboys.

The best Mr. Field who ever existed might be able to beat Valuev, but nobody beats him from the outside for obvious reasons. Anyone with any success has to be able to get inside his reach and make him pay consistently through the whole of the fight. Nobody thus far has had any success doing that because he possesses an uppercut from hell, which means they come in for single shots and then hold on for dear life for the ref to break.

Mr. Haye possesses approx the same offensive skill set as Valuev, the basics covered. Neither noted for footwork or defense, and both make good use of their strengths, Valuev his size and strength, Haye his power and speed.

What wins the day for Value is intimidation, stamina, and chin. Of those attributes, on a scale of 10, Big Nik is 10 and Mr. Haye is something like a 3, barely just above a pipsqueak.

Buzz Killington.

"I've quite a mastery of the humorous yarn (laughs). For example, do any of you know the tale of how cornmeal came to be?"

"Neither did the miller when he left his house that morning."

[Bard of Boxrec]

Saying Valuev is a 'better boxer' than Haye is craziness. Valuev is inferior in every department except chin and possibly stamina (relational for such a big guy). Nevertheless although he is technically so inferior he won't have to go looking for Haye and surely won't be stopped. I agree with OP that Valuev wins this and I have lumped on for the KO. Get 11/2 Valuev KO while you can guys. Totesport is the only one left.

If I was able to watch this fight this probably would have ruined it for me because I desperately want Haye to win but my head says Valuev will just bide his time, eat some shots and then land one on Haye which may be enough.

[watson748]

I don't know why people keep going on about Hayes stamina because in the JMM and Barrett fights imo he was getting faster and stronger as the fight progressed. I think that too many people are harking back to his one mistake when he fought Thompson and gassed early when he had to burn down to make Cruiser. Its easy to look for and then exaggerate possible weaknesses that they once saw Haye display in another weight class many years ago while casually overlooking the mans record and current level of skill. As a Cruiser he has fought faster more skilful opponents (than Valuev) with power that could still have KO'd him yet he prevailed easily.

Another point that seems to be of contention is that he won't have the power to stop the giant because Valuev has a strong chin. Have people missed that the main and biggest target (that also just happens to be at the perfect height for Haye) is his body. Why can't Haye purely target that all night? With Hayes power I would bet that he could have Valuev touching down and possibly stopping the fight before the end.

Valuevs record is heavily padded with a few controversial decisions. He is slow but he is accurate if the target remains stationary long enough. Apart from height and weight which can be neutralised by speed and staying on the outside I do not see what Valuev has that could be considered more dangerous than anything Haye has faced before.

This will be a difficult fight for Haye but at the top level they always are. IMO he has the speed and power to get in and out and possibly stop the Giant.

[alexpaterson]

Valuev is an average boxer but he use's his advantages well I see him wearing down Haye and stopping him late Valuev doesnt have a big punch but has wear down sort of power

[oliverfennell]

55/45 fight for Haye, whose win over Monte Barrett seems less impressive after the fat slob Solis destroyed him in two rounds without being dropped

Except the Barrett that fought Haye was:

- a year younger

- not inactive for a year

- coming with several months' notice, rather than several days'

- coming off a big win rather than a big loss