hatton was awesome

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 12 Dec 2004, 09:00

I know for a fact Oliveira made the weight easily actually.

Do tell....

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 12 Dec 2004, 09:03

Oliveira hardly has an ounce of fat on him, so what exactly was the 7lbs he lost between his last fight and the Hatton fight? Can hardly have done him any good losing 7lbs of muscle.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 12 Dec 2004, 09:14

007 wrote:Oliveira hardly has an ounce of fat on him, so what exactly was the 7lbs he lost between his last fight and the Hatton fight? Can hardly have done him any good losing 7lbs of muscle.

Ray has moved between 147 and 140 throughout much of his career.

He said he had no trouble making the weight. Hatton was all over him - no wonder his legs looked wobbly.

Like I said, he might be better at welterweight but that cos hes tight at the weight not weight drained - maybe you and i have different definitions.

All I can say is that Ray confirmed that he had no trouble making the weight and no last minute shedding of pounds was involved.

davetko · Post by **davetko** » 12 Dec 2004, 09:19

Can anyone send me a tape of the fight????

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 12 Dec 2004, 09:23

I am of the opinion that it was a very good performance by Hatton last night. Yes he did crowd his work at times as he often does and yes he makes mistakes that may or may not be exploited against the top guys but no fighter is perfect. Tzsyu, Mayweither Jr and Cotto are not perfect fighting machines either.

I think Oliveira was tight at the weight but not weight drained in the Curry V Honeyghan sense. He would not have lasted as long as he did if he was 'dead' at the weight.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 12 Dec 2004, 09:33

don't call it a comeback wrote:
007 wrote:Oliveira hardly has an ounce of fat on him, so what exactly was the 7lbs he lost between his last fight and the Hatton fight? Can hardly have done him any good losing 7lbs of muscle.
Ray has moved between 147 and 140 throughout much of his career.

He said he had no trouble making the weight. Hatton was all over him - no wonder his legs looked wobbly.

Like I said, he might be better at welterweight but that cos hes tight at the weight not weight drained - maybe you and i have different definitions.

All I can say is that Ray confirmed that he had no trouble making the weight and no last minute shedding of pounds was involved.

Ray has moved weights but has not fought at 140 since 2001.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 12 Dec 2004, 09:47

007 wrote:
don't call it a comeback wrote:
007 wrote:Oliveira hardly has an ounce of fat on him, so what exactly was the 7lbs he lost between his last fight and the Hatton fight? Can hardly have done him any good losing 7lbs of muscle.
Ray has moved between 147 and 140 throughout much of his career.

He said he had no trouble making the weight. Hatton was all over him - no wonder his legs looked wobbly.

Like I said, he might be better at welterweight but that cos hes tight at the weight not weight drained - maybe you and i have different definitions.

All I can say is that Ray confirmed that he had no trouble making the weight and no last minute shedding of pounds was involved.
Ray has moved weights but has not fought at 140 since 2001.

lol - you work for weightwatchers?

anyway, hes weighed above welterweight before in his career and come straight back down again to score some of his biggest wins. According to boxrec he fought at 150 three months before he beat Harris at 140.

He personally says that weight making was not THE decisive factor. I can see you disagree. Maybe you should take it up with him.

Razor · Post by **Razor** » 12 Dec 2004, 09:51

Hatton has changed my opinion of him, he was awesome, this guy has beaten Harris, and has never been stopped. Hatton was awesome

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 12 Dec 2004, 09:55

don't call it a comeback wrote:
007 wrote:
don't call it a comeback wrote: Ray has moved between 147 and 140 throughout much of his career.

He said he had no trouble making the weight. Hatton was all over him - no wonder his legs looked wobbly.

Like I said, he might be better at welterweight but that cos hes tight at the weight not weight drained - maybe you and i have different definitions.

All I can say is that Ray confirmed that he had no trouble making the weight and no last minute shedding of pounds was involved.
Ray has moved weights but has not fought at 140 since 2001.
lol - you work for weightwatchers?

anyway, hes weighed above welterweight before in his career and come straight back down again to score some of his biggest wins. According to boxrec he fought at 150 three months before he beat Harris at 140.

He personally says that weight making was not THE decisive factor. I can see you disagree. Maybe you should take it up with him.

No I dont!! Check his record on boxrec when the server is working again. Granted he has come down in weight to beat Harris previously but he has not fought at 140 for nearly 4 years and at 36 years old shifting that weight would have been harder.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 12 Dec 2004, 10:07

007 wrote:
don't call it a comeback wrote:
007 wrote: Ray has moved weights but has not fought at 140 since 2001.
lol - you work for weightwatchers?

anyway, hes weighed above welterweight before in his career and come straight back down again to score some of his biggest wins. According to boxrec he fought at 150 three months before he beat Harris at 140.

He personally says that weight making was not THE decisive factor. I can see you disagree. Maybe you should take it up with him.
No I dont!! Check his record on boxrec when the server is working again. Granted he has come down in weight to beat Harris previously but he has not fought at 140 for nearly 4 years and at 36 years old shifting that weight would have been harder.

dont get me wrong. I understand what youre saying, I just dont agree. I know its 3 years and 4 months since Ray made 140 for a fight but I dont think he was dead at it last night. All fighters have to make a weight lower than their natural one - Ricky included. Fighters move around weight divisions - Gatti fought as a welterweight for two years before coming back down. He hadnt made 140 for FOUR years before he beat Branco for the title.

Like I said, tight at the weight not weight drained.

Its been a nice debate but I feel I've exhausted the topic.

I am now drained of the weight drained discussion.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 12 Dec 2004, 12:20

Well Oliveria said HIMSELF after a fight that he COULDNT make 140 again and thats why he moved up. Making 140 killed him obviously. Let's see hatton fight someone who is comfortable at 140 for once.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 12 Dec 2004, 12:26

Who's the biggest puncher Hattons faced? Tackie? Magee? Its obvious you have to be able to punch to beat Hatton, if not not he's just gonna swarm on you. You have to hurt him. He's been steered clear of any punching threats though, those guys will cut his face up and hurt him bad. A guy like Tszyu will come into the ring with a different mentality than anyone Hatton has ever faced. Oliviera never had the style or power to trouble Hatton. Perfect opponent for him.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Dec 2004, 13:16

Excellent performance general, but alot of flaws (that have always been there) defensively. Tszyu would have a field day exposing them.

It would be tough for Tszyu because I think Hatton is now deservedly placed in the elite bracket that includes Cotto, Mayweather, Gatti, Harris, Tszyu and Mitchell. That is some list and Hatton is definately in there. However, I just thinkTszyu will hit and hurt Hatton. Hatton might hurt Tszyu but I have the feeling Tszyu will get the more consistently and win by stoppage around the 7-8th in a fight of the year winner.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 12 Dec 2004, 14:30

Is anyone tired of the whole "never been stopped" angle that SN use?

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 13 Dec 2004, 07:04

ABA Boxing wrote:I dont think Hatton is scared all we hear is that he wants the fights. I think he is world class his opponents have not been great but he did the job he was paid to do.

If Hatton is such a fake and a walkover why dont they take him on, make it a warm up fight for the boxers you think are true contenders!!!!

Put up or shut up!

Hatton now ranked 3 in the world on Boxrec.

I bet anybody on this board 1000 quid RIGHT NOW, that Hatton doesn't fight tszyu next. Any takers?
Will that be Hattons choice or will Tszyu make the excuses?

When has Tszyu ever avioded a good fighter he is the only guy in boxing today that fights the best in his division.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 13 Dec 2004, 07:12

ABA Boxing wrote:I dont think Hatton is scared all we hear is that he wants the fights. I think he is world class his opponents have not been great but he did the job he was paid to do.

All we hear is he wants fights. Thats all we've been hearing for the past 4 years. If you want something bad enough, you TRY to make it happen. You DON'T remove yourself from mandatory positions.

If Hatton is such a fake and a walkover why dont they take him on, make it a warm up fight for the boxers you think are true contenders!!!!

Errr, because Hatton is scared to actually fight someone good. Cotto, Harris, tszyu, Mayweather, Witter, Judah. Hell even Corley and Spadafora are too much of a risk apparently.

ABA Boxing wrote:
I bet anybody on this board 1000 quid RIGHT NOW, that Hatton doesn't fight tszyu next. Any takers?
Will that be Hattons choice or will Tszyu make the excuses?

Will Tszyu make the excuses? Like Witter made excuses? Harris, judah, Mayweather? They all made excuses to get away from fighting Hatton just like Tszyu will. Yeah...

I bet you thought Williams would Ko Vitali too.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Dec 2004, 07:30

don't call it a comeback wrote:
007 wrote:Cant see how anyone can say Oliveira was not weight drained, his legs werent there from the start. Watching him jitter around the ring was almost painful and there was nothing in his work no snap at all.

Full credit to Oliveira for soaking it up.
Until the last couple of rounds Oliveira was still throwing plenty of punches - he actually upped his workrate in the middle rounds - no evidence of weight drain there. He took a lot of flush shots without disintegrating - again no evidence of weight drain. He took some great body shots - they will kill you if you are weight drained - he stood up to a lot of them quite well.

Yes Ray's legs looked a bit wobbly sometimes as the blows rained in. Danny Williams' legs werent in the same neighourhood as him last night either - was he weight drained? Both fighters were knocked down in the first round....a clue perhaps?

Oliveira made the weight easily for last night. It might not be his best weight but thats not the same thing as losing a fight because of weight drain.

At what point in the fight did you see 'lots of shots' coming from Oliveria. It was quite clear there was nothing behind the shots he was throwing, and he threw very little.

YES, Hatton looked very very good, but he wasn't in against much of a threat. I think Hatton v Cotto will be an excellent fight, Cotto likes to fight at his own pace, but he also hits hard enough and accurately enough to sting Hatton if he tries to steamroller him.

Good hard fight, and a 50-50 in my opinion. Cotto looks the more versatile, but Hattoin would make it hard for him.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 13 Dec 2004, 09:03

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
don't call it a comeback wrote:
007 wrote:Cant see how anyone can say Oliveira was not weight drained, his legs werent there from the start. Watching him jitter around the ring was almost painful and there was nothing in his work no snap at all.

Full credit to Oliveira for soaking it up.
Until the last couple of rounds Oliveira was still throwing plenty of punches - he actually upped his workrate in the middle rounds - no evidence of weight drain there. He took a lot of flush shots without disintegrating - again no evidence of weight drain. He took some great body shots - they will kill you if you are weight drained - he stood up to a lot of them quite well.

Yes Ray's legs looked a bit wobbly sometimes as the blows rained in. Danny Williams' legs werent in the same neighourhood as him last night either - was he weight drained? Both fighters were knocked down in the first round....a clue perhaps?

Oliveira made the weight easily for last night. It might not be his best weight but thats not the same thing as losing a fight because of weight drain.
At what point in the fight did you see 'lots of shots' coming from Oliveria. It was quite clear there was nothing behind the shots he was throwing, and he threw very little.

YES, Hatton looked very very good, but he wasn't in against much of a threat. I think Hatton v Cotto will be an excellent fight, Cotto likes to fight at his own pace, but he also hits hard enough and accurately enough to sting Hatton if he tries to steamroller him.

Good hard fight, and a 50-50 in my opinion. Cotto looks the more versatile, but Hatton would make it hard for him.

Look I dont have the punch stats and would be interested in seeing them but my impression is that for the first seven rounds Oliveira was throwing about 40 odd punches a round with about a 20-25% success rate. I agree that he never had much power behind his punches but that has never been his style - in the fights I have seen, like against Philips, he threw high volume punches and won rounds on work rate. On this comparison, he actuallly threw very little by his own standards on Saturday - but then he was under continual assault from the first bell - Hatton knew he had to get on him immediately and keep pummelling in intense bursts and he did that. However, in comparison to a dead at the weight fighter, he threw more than you would expect. Thus I dont believe weight was the crucial factor. That was my only point.

I seem to recall Oliveira throwing a bit more in rounds 4 to 6 and I think round 4 was probably his best. Again I dont have the tape to confirm this.

As for Cotto, I was more impressed with him on Saturday than ever before. Bailey was no better than Oliveira but again, like Oliveira, he wasnt allowed into the fight for one second. Cotto is developing quite a dig and is getting cuter by the day. I agree him and Hatton is a toss up though because Ricky would definitely make him work harder than he is getting used to. I would have Cotto starting favourite now though and that is the first time I have thought that.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 13 Dec 2004, 09:25

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
don't call it a comeback wrote:
007 wrote:Cant see how anyone can say Oliveira was not weight drained, his legs werent there from the start. Watching him jitter around the ring was almost painful and there was nothing in his work no snap at all.

Full credit to Oliveira for soaking it up.
Until the last couple of rounds Oliveira was still throwing plenty of punches - he actually upped his workrate in the middle rounds - no evidence of weight drain there. He took a lot of flush shots without disintegrating - again no evidence of weight drain. He took some great body shots - they will kill you if you are weight drained - he stood up to a lot of them quite well.

Yes Ray's legs looked a bit wobbly sometimes as the blows rained in. Danny Williams' legs werent in the same neighourhood as him last night either - was he weight drained? Both fighters were knocked down in the first round....a clue perhaps?

Oliveira made the weight easily for last night. It might not be his best weight but thats not the same thing as losing a fight because of weight drain.
At what point in the fight did you see 'lots of shots' coming from Oliveria. It was quite clear there was nothing behind the shots he was throwing, and he threw very little.

YES, Hatton looked very very good, but he wasn't in against much of a threat. I think Hatton v Cotto will be an excellent fight, Cotto likes to fight at his own pace, but he also hits hard enough and accurately enough to sting Hatton if he tries to steamroller him.

Good hard fight, and a 50-50 in my opinion. Cotto looks the more versatile, but Hattoin would make it hard for him.

Oliveira was completely weight drained and at the end of the road. Just like Freddie Pendleton and Vince Phillips were.

There were nothing on Oliveiras punches, not that he threw many anyway.

Hatton didnt impress me at all

Chris the fighter · Post by **Chris the fighter** » 13 Dec 2004, 10:00

Hatton did his job won every round and stopped a guy who had never been stopped. It looks to me that he has his focus back which went missing earlier in the year. His last two wins have been very professional and he does deserve his shot at one of the top men in the division.
Having said that Oliveria was never in the fight and posed Hatton no probelms.

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 13 Dec 2004, 10:07

I did go for Williams to win.

But then i bet you went for Tyson to win!

Hatton is a great fighter and if the fight never happens then we can all say this and that. I have great respect for Tszyu he is the best at the moment.

Im Just saying by no means is a Hatton a bum or a walkover and in boxing anything can happen.

I still think Hatton could beat Tszyu im not saying he will smash him to bits just win, or Hatton gets stopped on cuts!

I still think it would be a big fight that would pay alot of money so Tszyu needs to say he wants the fight and then we can blame the Hatton camp if it Dosen\'t happen!!!!!!!

Its not always one sided as was the case this weekend and i think Williams could get back in the ring, there are some good fights for him that he can still win, Harrison, Skelton.

The other route which he should have taken was clear up the other mess of belts which he can still do! fighters his own size then take Klit in 2 years or so. All the boxers that Klit has stopped are not out of the picture so why should Williams, if anything he could take more punches than any of the others, including Tyson.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 13 Dec 2004, 10:16

Hatton's just too open for a right from tszyu. He can't stay away from it all night. Tszyu, IMO, would obliterate Hatton. It would be a performance that would make everyone on this board cringe with fear and terror.

Williams could indeed beat Skelton and harrison. It would be a 50-50 with hide IMO. He could do well against people like Brewster and Holyfield and Tyson but only because they are so poor now. He definately shouldn't retire but he's not real world level. Any top fighter will beat him. Apart form the Tyson win, his carrerr was a joke and he was never going to trouble Vitali. There are worse fighters out there than Williams.

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 13 Dec 2004, 10:18

Im glad we agree on something

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 13 Dec 2004, 10:25

Tzsyu will knock Hatton cold within five rounds.

Ricky is too easy to hit. He is tailor made for Tzsyu.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 13 Dec 2004, 10:32

Why don't we talk about light welters who actually want to fight the best...

tszyu vs Cotto... That's a dream fight.

I'll take Cotto by decision.