The Light Middleweight Division

[Grimm]

1.Mike Mccallum
2.Thomas Hearns
3.Winky Wright
4.Terry Norris
5.Wilfred Benitez
6.Oscar De La Hoya
7.Julian Jackson
8.Felix Trinidad
9.Gianfranco Rosi
10.John Mugabi


Before you comment or criticize,post your list first.

It's quite hard making a top 10 lightmiddleweight list because most fighters don't spend much time in the division and most of the greats were just blown up welters.

[nuclearfist78]

1) James Strickland
2) Kermit Cintron
3) Paul Williams
4) John Duddy
5) Alfredo Angulo
6) Danny Garcia
7) Yuriorkis Gamboa
8) Vanes Martirosyan
9) Yuri Foreman
10) Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.

[Goodnight, Irene]

1.Mike Mccallum
2.Thomas Hearns
3.Winky Wright
4.Wilfred Benitez
5.Oscar De La Hoya
6.Julian Jackson
7.Felix Trinidad
8.Gianfranco Rosi
9.John Mugabi
10.Fernando Vargas

Before you comment or criticize,post your list first.

It's quite hard making a top 10 lightmiddleweight list because most fighters don't spend much time in the division and most of the greats were just blown up welters.

Indeed, but there have been some very good ones. I have a real soft spot for Wright --- he was always the forgotten man of his generation (overlooked in the age of Trinidad, Mosley, & De La Hoya), but a terrific fighter, always.

Not a huge amount of thought on this one, so I reserve the right to adjust, but, for now, this'll do my thinking...

1. Tommy Hearns
2. Mike McCallum
3. Wilfred Benitez
4. Ray Leonard
5. Emile Griffith
6. Ronald Wright
7. Felix Trinidad
8. Nino Benvenuti
9. Oscar De La Hoya
10. John Mugabi

There are some intangibles here, because, as Grimm says, many fighters stopped briefly at this weight. For instance, I'm sure Pernell Whitaker could beat many former Jr. Middleweight champs, but how do you factor him in here? That's just one of many fighters in that setting.

[Ezzard]

McCallum
Hearns
Benvenuti
Griffith
Jackson
Wright
Leonard
Benitez
Trinidad

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Hearns
Mccallum
Norris- Surprised he didn't make any other lists
Benvenutti
Griffith
Benitez
Tito
Wajima
Winky
Kalule/Duran/moore, Jackson- not really sure

I'm sure I missed someone and wouldn't argue the placements from 3-7 much. I didn't include a leonard or Whitaker that basically had one fight each. Even though I do have a few with just a couple fights.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Damn. I was re-arranging my list, & bumped Norris accidentally. I had him figuring, though. Will have to re-configure.

[Adamj1987]

if hearns stayed at LMW for a few years longer he would have been undisputed best LMW

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Mazzinghi is worth a look too.

[Grimm]

Hearns
Mccallum
Norris- Surprised he didn't make any other lists
Benvenutti
Griffith
Benitez
Tito
Wajima
Winky
Kalule/Duran/moore, Jackson- not really sure

I'm sure I missed someone and wouldn't argue the placements from 3-7 much. I didn't include a leonard or Whitaker that basically had one fight each. Even though I do have a few with just a couple fights.

You know the whole reason I started the thread is because I was watching some Terry Norris fights? Somehow I managed to slip him out of my list. That's the problem with top 10 lists someone always ends up forgotten.(with me anyway)

[Rocky Balboa]

1.Mike Mccallum
2.Thomas Hearns
3.Winky Wright
4.Terry Norris
5.Wilfred Benitez
6.Oscar De La Hoya
7.Julian Jackson
8.Felix Trinidad
9.Gianfranco Rosi
10.John Mugabi


Before you comment or criticize,post your list first.

It's quite hard making a top 10 lightmiddleweight list because most fighters don't spend much time in the division and most of the greats were just blown up welters.

Mugabi is too low for me. At his best Mugabi would have beaten Norris, whom he lost to when John was past it! Mugabi beat some top buys at LMW, Frank Fletcher, James Green, Curtis Parker, Earl Hargrove, etc. I'm not saying these guys were world beaters, but they were good fighters!

I always wonder why Hearns-Migabui did not happen? Mugabi was adamant he wanted the fight, & it seemed logical to make it! Both were dynamite at 154lbs. Hearns-Mugabi should have happened in about 1983, 1984!

[giacomino]

1.Mike McCallum
2. Nino Benvenuti
3. Terry Norris
4. DeLaHoya
5. Julian Jackson
6. Tommy Hearns
7. Winky Wright
8. Felix Trinidad
9. Sandro Mazzinghi
10. Julio Cesar Vasquez
10a Koichi Wajima
10b Wilfred Benitez
10c. Gianfranco Rosi

I tended to go with guys who fought a little while at junior middleweight rather than those with a big fight or two. Leonard fought one fight at junior middleweight. Mugabi, while a terror in lesser boats, was 1-2 in junior middleweight title fights, losing twice by quick KO.

[Grimm]

1.Mike Mccallum
2.Thomas Hearns
3.Winky Wright
4.Terry Norris
5.Wilfred Benitez
6.Oscar De La Hoya
7.Julian Jackson
8.Felix Trinidad
9.Gianfranco Rosi
10.John Mugabi


Before you comment or criticize,post your list first.

It's quite hard making a top 10 lightmiddleweight list because most fighters don't spend much time in the division and most of the greats were just blown up welters.

Mugabi is too low for me. At his best Mugabi would have beaten Norris, whom he lost to when John was past it! Mugabi beat some top buys at LMW, Frank Fletcher, James Green, Curtis Parker, Earl Hargrove, etc. I'm not saying these guys were world beaters, but they were good fighters!

I always wonder why Hearns-Migabui did not happen? Mugabi was adamant he wanted the fight, & it seemed logical to make it! Both were dynamite at 154lbs. Hearns-Mugabi should have happened in about 1983, 1984!

So I'm guessing you didn't read the part about posting your own list?

[Mr E]

If we're talking the best 10 fighters who were ever capable of making 154, then my list is going to look a lot different than the rest:

1-Sugar Ray Robinson
2-Stanley Ketchel
3-Mickey Walker
4-Sugar Ray Leonard
5-Charley Burley
6-Mike Gibbons
7-Nino Benvenuti
8-Emile Griffith
9-Luis Rodriguez
10-Mike McCallum

[Grimm]

If we're talking the best 10 fighters who were ever capable of making 154, then my list is going to look a lot different than the rest:

1-Sugar Ray Robinson
2-Stanley Ketchel
3-Mickey Walker
4-Sugar Ray Leonard
5-Charley Burley
6-Mike Gibbons
7-Nino Benvenuti
8-Emile Griffith
9-Luis Rodriguez
10-Mike McCallum

Yeah of course it would.

[Mr E]

If we're talking the best 10 fighters who were ever capable of making 154, then my list is going to look a lot different than the rest:

1-Sugar Ray Robinson
2-Stanley Ketchel
3-Mickey Walker
4-Sugar Ray Leonard
5-Charley Burley
6-Mike Gibbons
7-Nino Benvenuti
8-Emile Griffith
9-Luis Rodriguez
10-Mike McCallum

Yeah of course it would.

More entertaining, though, isn't it?

As for the best jr. middleweight champion, I like Ray Leonard to upset Thomas Hearns and Mike McCallum and then hurl a challenge through the ether of history to the great Walker Smith.

[McCannW14]

Top 10 154lb of all time in no particular order.


Burley
McCallum
Jackson
Norris
Benitez
"Angel" Rodriguez
Mugabi
Ayala jnr
Leonard
Trinidad

[SaadOffTheDeck]

1.Mike Mccallum
2.Thomas Hearns
3.Winky Wright
4.Terry Norris
5.Wilfred Benitez
6.Oscar De La Hoya
7.Julian Jackson
8.Felix Trinidad
9.Gianfranco Rosi
10.John Mugabi


Before you comment or criticize,post your list first.

It's quite hard making a top 10 lightmiddleweight list because most fighters don't spend much time in the division and most of the greats were just blown up welters.

Mugabi is too low for me. At his best Mugabi would have beaten Norris, whom he lost to when John was past it! Mugabi beat some top buys at LMW, Frank Fletcher, James Green, Curtis Parker, Earl Hargrove, etc. I'm not saying these guys were world beaters, but they were good fighters!

I always wonder why Hearns-Migabui did not happen? Mugabi was adamant he wanted the fight, & it seemed logical to make it! Both were dynamite at 154lbs. Hearns-Mugabi should have happened in about 1983, 1984!

Fletcher & Parker were Middleweights, and quite past it when John fought them at 160.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

1.Mike McCallum
2. Nino Benvenuti
3. Terry Norris
4. DeLaHoya
5. Julian Jackson
6. Tommy Hearns
7. Winky Wright
8. Felix Trinidad
9. Sandro Mazzinghi
10. Julio Cesar Vasquez
10a Koichi Wajima
10b Wilfred Benitez
10c. Gianfranco Rosi

I tended to go with guys who fought a little while at junior middleweight rather than those with a big fight or two. Leonard fought one fight at junior middleweight. Mugabi, while a terror in lesser boats, was 1-2 in junior middleweight title fights, losing twice by quick KO.

Oscar over Hearns? Do you mind elaborating on that? Oscar himself knows he would have lost head to head and is Vargas a greater win than Duran & Benitez? Tommy has him in talent, longevity and resume at the weight imo. Just curious...

[Goodnight, Irene]

Hearns never got Leonard at JMW, though.

Lord knows, I am as proud a fan of De La Hoya's as you'll ever meet, but, sorry to say, he ain't beating Hearns at JMW.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Hearns never got Leonard at JMW, though.

Lord knows, I am as proud a fan of De La Hoya's as you'll ever meet, but, sorry to say, he ain't beating Hearns at JMW.

Edited, I meant Wilfred. My love of Hearns and hatred of leonard can manifest itself beyond what I'm attempting to write.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Well, he did beat him, nonetheless. That second fight stank, & even Leonard admitted as much.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I nearly had a stroke at the closed circuit venue when the cards were announced. Horrible night, but I've never seen more class after being robbed.

[giacomino]

1.Mike McCallum
2. Nino Benvenuti
3. Terry Norris
4. DeLaHoya
5. Julian Jackson
6. Tommy Hearns
7. Winky Wright
8. Felix Trinidad
9. Sandro Mazzinghi
10. Julio Cesar Vasquez
10a Koichi Wajima
10b Wilfred Benitez
10c. Gianfranco Rosi

I tended to go with guys who fought a little while at junior middleweight rather than those with a big fight or two. Leonard fought one fight at junior middleweight. Mugabi, while a terror in lesser boats, was 1-2 in junior middleweight title fights, losing twice by quick KO.

Oscar over Hearns? Do you mind elaborating on that? Oscar himself knows he would have lost head to head and is Vargas a greater win than Duran & Benitez? Tommy has him in talent, longevity and resume at the weight imo. Just curious...

Actually, I probably should have put Hearns over Jackson too.
I didn't base it on how fighters would do in a mythical junior middleweight tournament. If I had, I probably would have put Hearns or Leonard at the top.
I really think Oscar and Hearns were fairly similar at junior middleweight in terms of their time in the division. You could easily swap the two and it wouldn't hurt my feelings.
Hearns beat a still talented Benitez and of course destroyed Duran. Duran was past his prime and fighting well above his natural weight, but he also had a few good fights left in him. Hearns also beat decent contenders Minchillo, Hutchings and Medal. I saw all three and they weren't really competitive. The Hit Man dominated
At junior middleweight, Oscar widely outpointed a decent Javier Castillejo, destroyed Vargas when he was still considered legit, destroyed a past his prime but still competitive Mayorga and a shot Campas. He also lost what I consider a questionable decision at junior middleweight to Mosely, and lost a more legit SD to Mayweather at 154.
Again, I think 4-6 were all pretty close

[Grimm]

Should Harry Simon fit in?