Peak Frazier and Tyson....what happens?

[yancey]

Joe is my all-time favorite, but I've got to admit peak Tyson scares me in this one.

How do you fellows see it?

Does Tyson bag him early or does Joe's heart and character see him through?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Hoping I'd be proven wrong all the way, but my head says Frazier can't evade or absorb Tyson's power. It's a hot start from Iron Mike, & he puts Smokin' Joe away in three. Brutal.

Would love to see Frazier steal the bastard's heart, though. You never know.

[yancey]

Hoping I'd be proven wrong all the way, but my head says Frazier can't evade or absorb Tyson's power. It's a hot start from Iron Mike, & he puts Smokin' Joe away in three. Brutal.

Would love to see Frazier steal the bastard's heart, though. You never know.

Well, I'm afraid you are right.

I love Joe but those first three rounds with peak Tyson scare the hell out of me.

p.s. But "you never know" is right, because if Joe weathers the initial storm and gets in a big hook early, Tyson might just have fallen apart.

[Syntax Error]

2 most probable outcomes:-

1) Fast starting Tyson explodes out of the blocks & stuns the slow starting Frazier; Frazier never really recovers from the onslaught & has to be rescued in the 4th round.

2) Frazier manages to weather an early Tyson onslaught; he gets warmed up & starts detonating that ferocious hooks off Tyson's head after the mid rounds. Frazier has a bigger heart & better stamina than Tyson & this is what separates the 2 & the ref has to step in to save Tyson in 10 rounds.

I'm inclined to think that the latter option would be the most likely outcome.

[yancey]

2 most likely outcomes:-

1) Fast starting Tyson explodes out of the blocks & stuns the slow starting Frazier; Frazier never really recovers from the onslaught & has to be rescued in the 4th round.

2) Frazier manages to weather an early Tyson onslaught; he gets warmed up & starts detonating that ferocious hook off Tyson's head after the mid rounds. Frazier has a bigger heart & better stamina than Tyson & this is what separates the 2 & the ref has to step in to save Tyson in 10 rounds.

I'm inclined to think that the latter option would be the most likely outcome.

If Frazier gets it to rd 4 in good shape, then outcome #2 seems most likely to me.

The problem for me as a Frazier fan is those first three rounds.

[Syntax Error]

2 most likely outcomes:-

1) Fast starting Tyson explodes out of the blocks & stuns the slow starting Frazier; Frazier never really recovers from the onslaught & has to be rescued in the 4th round.

2) Frazier manages to weather an early Tyson onslaught; he gets warmed up & starts detonating that ferocious hook off Tyson's head after the mid rounds. Frazier has a bigger heart & better stamina than Tyson & this is what separates the 2 & the ref has to step in to save Tyson in 10 rounds.

I'm inclined to think that the latter option would be the most likely outcome.

If Frazier gets it to rd 4 in good shape, then outcome #2 seems most likely to me.

The problem for me as a Frazier fan is those first three rounds.

You make a good point.

A must own up to a bit of bias as I am a Frazier fan, but I will admit that Sonny Liston aside (we all know about Foreman already), Tyson is the other HW in history that I think could have possibly given Frazier a dose of hurt.

[BoxBuzz]

If Frazier could dent Tyson early it would mean a lot toward a Frazier victory. He would have to convince Tyson that he was not invincible. Not many are better at that than Joe Frazier. Once Tyson loses confidence he's done. Same sort of works in reverse because Tyson does have the power to KO Frazier early and as long as Tyson thinks he's the boss, he will remain the boss. (A waiving of the 3 knockdown rule might work in Joe's favor as well.)

My belief in this case is simply that I favor the odds of Frazier getting through the early storm, generating self doubt in Tyson and then letting Tyson beat himself while Frazier guides the process. However for all of us here who know that Frazier is a chronic slow starter, we are going to have some very unnerving moments in the first three rounds. But if it's not over by then, I'm counting my money.

[ThatOne]

See Hearns-Hagler. I will let others divine who will be Hearns and who will be Hagler.

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If Frazier could dent Tyson early it would mean a lot toward a Frazier victory. He would have to convince Tyson that he was not invincible. Not many are better at that than Joe Frazier. Once Tyson loses confidence he's done. Same sort of works in reverse because Tyson does have the power to KO Frazier early and as long as Tyson thinks he's the boss, he will remain the boss. (A waiving of the 3 knockdown rule might work in Joe's favor as well.)

My belief in this case is simply that I favor the odds of Frazier getting through the early storm, generating self doubt in Tyson and then letting Tyson beat himself while Frazier guides the process. However for all of us here who know that Frazier is a chronic slow starter, we are going to have some very unnerving moments in the first three rounds. But if it's not over by then, I'm counting my money.

I like your summation, especially the bit about convincing Tyson that he was not invincible.

That would be THE key moment in such a contest.

Once Tyson had doubts, he usually didn't complete the job.

[BoxBuzz]

Can anyone tell us how many times Tyson got off the deck to win...or even finish a fight?

[Goodnight, Irene]

I want to hear someone break down how Frazier is going to, "somehow weather the storm."

Details, if you please, folkes. I'm afraid I'm in Yancey's boat --- I'd certainly be pulling for it to happen, I just don't know quite how it could. In many instances during their first fight, Foreman missed. Tyson wouldn't.

[harrygreb]

no, much as i love joe and grew up thinking he was awesome, i began to change my mind slightly as foreman swarmed all over him. ok he destroyed joe roman and terry daniels and his bouts with ali proved his heart and he did have one of the great left hooks of all time but bonavena gave him trouble remember. i think tyson doesnt even reach the stage where he gets doubts in his mind. mike never won a fight he was losing but against joe he is always ahead and bounces frazier out in 4 or 5 rounds.

[Goodnight, Irene]

no, much as i love joe and grew up thinking he was awesome, i began to change my mind slightly as foreman swarmed all over him. ok he destroyed joe roman and terry daniels and his bouts with ali proved his heart and he did have one of the great left hooks of all time but bonavena gave him trouble remember. i think tyson doesnt even reach the stage where he gets doubts in his mind. mike never won a fight he was losing but against joe he is always ahead and bounces frazier out in 4 or 5 rounds.

I am sick to death of hearing Frazier criticised for his first fight with Bonavena --- so much so, I won't even explain for the millionth time why that fight is a credit to Frazier, not a drawback. Honestly, figure it out for yourselves

Incidentally, Frazier never fought Roman.

[yancey]

no, much as i love joe and grew up thinking he was awesome, i began to change my mind slightly as foreman swarmed all over him. ok he destroyed joe roman and terry daniels and his bouts with ali proved his heart and he did have one of the great left hooks of all time but bonavena gave him trouble remember. i think tyson doesnt even reach the stage where he gets doubts in his mind. mike never won a fight he was losing but against joe he is always ahead and bounces frazier out in 4 or 5 rounds.

I am sick to death of hearing Frazier criticised for his first fight with Bonavena --- so much so, I won't even explain for the millionth time why that fight is a credit to Frazier, not a drawback. Honestly, figure it out for yourselves

[Syntax Error]

I want to hear someone break down how Frazier is going to, "somehow weather the storm."

Details, if you please, folkes. I'm afraid I'm in Yancey's boat --- I'd certainly be pulling for it to happen, I just don't know quite how it could. In many instances during their first fight, Foreman missed. Tyson wouldn't.

It's a hypothetical situtation; so there is no right or wrong answer, just opinions.

No-one knows for sure whether Frazier could have weathered a Tyson storm, but it cannot be beyond the realms of probability that Frazier could do it, bearing in mind that Frazier was quite hard to hit in his pomp.

Also, the Foreman comparison is not relevant: Foreman was a monster of man whose physical strength dwarfed that of most of his peers.

Tyson did not have the physical strength of Foreman & IMO, he would not have been able to bully Frazier & bullying was one of Tyson's main assets.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I'm simply talking about the percentages with punch landings. Tyson would miss far fewer, but hit in similarly devastating fashion.

[BoxBuzz]

I want to hear someone break down how Frazier is going to, "somehow weather the storm."

Details, if you please, folkes. I'm afraid I'm in Yancey's boat --- I'd certainly be pulling for it to happen, I just don't know quite how it could. In many instances during their first fight, Foreman missed. Tyson wouldn't.

Well it's not impossible that Frazier decks Tyson early. That's one way to weather a storm. Perhaps a longshot, but not impossible. Frazier was not going to miss like a fella like Foreman might, he's faster than the Foreman type and had a pretty good speedy defense himself. But it's true he couldnt' manhandle Mike the way Foreman did to Frazier. Everybody's going to be watching those first few rounds closely. And remember, Tyson going down is lot more concerning than Joe going down. We know Joe just gets back up with NO loss in confidence.

With Joe a knockdown does not even happen, to his way of thinking the earth must have "made a mistake" and slipped out from under him, and this guy just gets up and goes back to work. With Tyson a knockdown is a very personal thing, his feelings are hurt and he wants Don King to come running out and explain what just happened and why it doesn't matter. A knockdown is very high maintenance for Mike. He does not know how to recover and does not have an emergency plan. A Frazier bet is a good one ...but not a sure one.

[yancey]

If I'm Yank Durham in this fight, I make damn sure Joe is good and warmed up before the first round.

Like BB says, if Joe gets in a big punch early on Tyson and puts him down, that could very well change everything. Still, a scary fight.

To me, the first three rounds are just about everything in this fight.

[StokeBloke]

Frazier weathers the storm early but there are a few scary moments, establishes control mid rounds and stops a busted up Tyson around round 10.

[harrygreb]

disagree but boxing is just so subjective. i have to rank mike above joe when all is told and - but for the odd slip (joe roman, rightly pointed out as never a frazier opponent) - i think i followed fraziers career quite closely. he'd never get past the ferocity of a tip-top tyson, much as i hate to admit it.

[mhagler91490]

I remember George Chuvalo talking about Tyson and he said something that rang true when you watch him fight. When he fights on the inside he stands straight up and against a guy who comes in low and gets under people to work off their chest he would get eaten up, as well as he never really showed he could fight off the back foot effectively. Just something to think about.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Joe takes his soul after a rough couple of opening rds. If the bell sounds for round five, Mike is finished. Mike wasn't a goof infighter, if Joe gets Smokin and sticks his head in his chest and starts firing, Tyson would be lost. Mike early or Joe late, I got 70/30 on frazier.

[Rocky Balboa]

Big fan of both guys, but I do think it comes down to styles. Tyson, at his best, was not just a slugger or a Knockout artist. His defense was brilliant, he was fast, sharp & in shape, both physically & mentally!

Frazier cannot outbox Tyson so he would have to take it straight to him. Tyson is probably the fastest starter in HW History & he would be on Joe like a harbour shark, body & head, mixing it up!

I see Frazier being overwhlemed like he was in the first Foreman fights. Tyson would be too fast, too accurate for Joe. Accumilation of punches, all angles.

I see the referee calling a halt in the second!

[NICARAGUAN NIGHTMARE]

Big fan of both guys, but I do think it comes down to styles. Tyson, at his best, was not just a slugger or a Knockout artist. His defense was brilliant, he was fast, sharp & in shape, both physically & mentally!

Frazier cannot outbox Tyson so he would have to take it straight to him. Tyson is probably the fastest starter in HW History & he would be on Joe like a harbour shark, body & head, mixing it up!

I see Frazier being overwhlemed like he was in the first Foreman fights. Tyson would be too fast, too accurate for Joe. Accumilation of punches, all angles.

I see the referee calling a halt in the second!

but tyson would be to small

[Robinson]

I think Tyson has this one. I like Frazier, but I think peak for peak it is a
bad fight for Frazier.

Frazier vs Holyfield....now that one I get excited about inside my lil head.