Carl Froch is FINISHED!

[damianhucker1]

Even though Froch lost by 2-3 rounds, I could see why people in the cheap seats in the arena may have scored it differently...

1) It could have looked from a distance like Froch's shots were landing, when in fact Dirrel made him miss 90 percent of the time
2) Everyone was probably drunk
3) The crowd were obviously behind the hometown man. When you are biased you see things differently.... You also convince yourself your man is winning
4) I suspect the average Froch fan doesn't watch much boxing, so probably arent the best at scoring fights.

I AGREE THAT ALL THOSE FACTORS COULD HAVE COME INTO PLAY BUT I FEEL FROCH WON BY 4 ROUNDS , FROCH ALTHOUGH MANY SHOTS HE THREW DIDNT LAND PROPERLY HE THREW A LOT MORE THAN DIRRELL DID , DIRRELL JUST THREW A JAB AND RAN , THREW A JAB AND RAN ETC ETC ALL NIGHT , THIS ISNT AMATEUR BOXING ITS NOT ALL ABOUT SCORING PUNCHES , SHOWING AGGRESSION AND INTENT ALSO COME INTO IT ,ALTHOUGH I WOULD SAY OVER THE COURSE OF THE FIGHT THEY PROBABLY LANDED AN EQUAL AMOUNT OF PUNCHES BUT FROCH THREW FAR MORE THAN DIRRELL , ADMITTEDLY NOWHERE NEAR THE VOLUME OR QUALITY OF HIS USUAL SELF BUT IF THEY LAND FAIRLY EQUALLY AND FROCH SHOWED MORE AGGRESSION THEN IN ALL FAIRNESS EVEN FROM JUST THAT ITSELF ID GIVE IT FROCH

[jBacca]

AS I JUST SAID ON THE OTHER THREAD I HAD FROCH 4 ROUNDS UP SO CERTAINLY CAN SEE WHY HE WON , I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT PEOPLE SCORED THE CLOSER ROUNDS DIFFERENT TO ME , IVE ONLY JUST COME ONE HERE AS IVE JUST GOT HOME AND IM SHOCKED TO SEE THE OPINONS ON HERE , YES IT WAS A POOR FIGHT BUT I DIDNT SPEAK TO A SINGLE PERSON IN THE ARENA OR OUTSIDE ETC THAT THOUGH DIRELL WON , NOT ONE . COMPLETELY PUZZLED , EVERYONE WHERE I WAS SAT WAS SHOCKED IT WAS EVEN A SPLIT DECISION AS ALL DIRRELL DID WAS SPOIL .
NOT DEBATING IT OUT WITH ANYONE AS I CAN SEE THAT ON HERE EVERYONE THINKS DIFFERENTLY TO ME BUT IM REALLY SURPRISED .

Get it on the replay mate

[jamesmcdonnell]

nothing else for dirrell out of this tourney. he pulls out, he's fvcked - blacklisted most likely, in most ppl's poop list for 2 extremely negative performances v curtis stephens and froch. no network would touch him.

anyway, it seems that abraham will fight dirrell in america. dirrell gets home advantage.

even if froch was finished, consider this: pre dirrell, he beat 2 guys in super 6 calibre fights, pascal and taylor. you have to wonder if that has taken something out of froch, while t'others were having showcases, mismatches and marking time fights. justa thought.

I tend to think that Froch was just utterly bamboozled by Dirrell's speed. He said before the fight that he had only watched two rounds of Dirrell fighting, and that he knew he would tire down the stretch and he would get to him.

Fact is, Dirrell looked fresh as a daisy after 12, and he was the one coming on strong. Carl seemed to have no other strategy other than

I think Carl has plateaued, he relies every time now on fitness, his chin, and determination to see him through, but against a guy as slippery and fast as Dirrell, it wasn't really enough. He may have got the decision, but Carl has been exposed as lacking depth in there. He hasn't got a plan B, other than grit his teeth and try and clobber his opponent.

Against someone young and fresh, that doesn't work so well.

I expect Carl to do better against Abaraham and Kessler, even if he loses to those two, he will have his moments, he had none against Dirrell.

[Pat Butcher]

Even though Froch lost by 2-3 rounds, I could see why people in the cheap seats in the arena may have scored it differently...

1) It could have looked from a distance like Froch's shots were landing, when in fact Dirrel made him miss 90 percent of the time
2) Everyone was probably drunk
3) The crowd were obviously behind the hometown man. When you are biased you see things differently.... You also convince yourself your man is winning
4) I suspect the average Froch fan doesn't watch much boxing, so probably arent the best at scoring fights.

Guilty about the drunk bit. The people sitting around me seemed confident Froch won straight after the bell (including my missus) but you're right about them being biased. Need to watch it again sober.

[stevieb_8006]

frochy won cos he pressed the fight. He MADE the fight. U cant win a world title in the manner dirrell fought.

it was a pish match up and I wouldnt have grumbled either way, but dirrell didnt DESERVE to win fighting like that.

And Froch didn't deserve to win for hitting the air with 90% of his punches. Dirrell, as negative as he was, landed the clean shots, displayed better defence and ring generalship, and had Froch hurt a few times. I thought it was close, had Dirrell by 2, but I gave Froch the benefit of the doubt it some close rounds. Bad decision imo, but not terrible.

yep totally agree

[Autobarn]

Carl Froch = not very good.

last night froch didn't do that much to contradict you. hopefully he does better next time.

anyway, you've done a U-turn of recent. recall you saying, re calzaghe, a fraud, that if you want quality boxing, watch froch and haye...

[b0ndl1ne]

For those who think that Froch won, I would be interested to know if you would think the same if it was the brit who had fought like dirrell and not got the decision.

I'm of the opinion you would all be claiming a grave injustice.

Just my opinion.

[mickey1975]

AS I JUST SAID ON THE OTHER THREAD I HAD FROCH 4 ROUNDS UP SO CERTAINLY CAN SEE WHY HE WON , I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT PEOPLE SCORED THE CLOSER ROUNDS DIFFERENT TO ME , IVE ONLY JUST COME ONE HERE AS IVE JUST GOT HOME AND IM SHOCKED TO SEE THE OPINONS ON HERE , YES IT WAS A POOR FIGHT BUT I DIDNT SPEAK TO A SINGLE PERSON IN THE ARENA OR OUTSIDE ETC THAT THOUGH DIRELL WON , NOT ONE . COMPLETELY PUZZLED , EVERYONE WHERE I WAS SAT WAS SHOCKED IT WAS EVEN A SPLIT DECISION AS ALL DIRRELL DID WAS SPOIL .
NOT DEBATING IT OUT WITH ANYONE AS I CAN SEE THAT ON HERE EVERYONE THINKS DIFFERENTLY TO ME BUT IM REALLY SURPRISED .

i have just spoken to someone who was there,almost ringside,and sober and he said he couldnt believe the decision.also,he said he saw robert mccracken when leaving the venue and shouted "that was close,wasnt it rob?",who replied,"not even close,he won it easy".you would have thought,with no cameras rolling and to your average fan,he could have been a bit more honest.after the fury debacle,the loss of ITV and now this,mick h's empire is looking a bit shaky....

[damianhucker1]

For those who think that Froch won, I would be interested to know if you would think the same if it was the brit who had fought like dirrell and not got the decision.

I'm of the opinion you would all be claiming a grave injustice.

Just my opinion.

I SCORED IT HOW I SAW IT , NO MATTER WHO I WANT TO WIN ITS POINTLESS FAVOURING ANY FIGHTER WHEN SCORING IF YOUR TRYING TO GET AN IDEA OF WHOS WINNING , OTHERWISE WHY BOTHER SCORING IT ALL ,

[damianhucker1]

AS I JUST SAID ON THE OTHER THREAD I HAD FROCH 4 ROUNDS UP SO CERTAINLY CAN SEE WHY HE WON , I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT PEOPLE SCORED THE CLOSER ROUNDS DIFFERENT TO ME , IVE ONLY JUST COME ONE HERE AS IVE JUST GOT HOME AND IM SHOCKED TO SEE THE OPINONS ON HERE , YES IT WAS A POOR FIGHT BUT I DIDNT SPEAK TO A SINGLE PERSON IN THE ARENA OR OUTSIDE ETC THAT THOUGH DIRELL WON , NOT ONE . COMPLETELY PUZZLED , EVERYONE WHERE I WAS SAT WAS SHOCKED IT WAS EVEN A SPLIT DECISION AS ALL DIRRELL DID WAS SPOIL .
NOT DEBATING IT OUT WITH ANYONE AS I CAN SEE THAT ON HERE EVERYONE THINKS DIFFERENTLY TO ME BUT IM REALLY SURPRISED .

i have just spoken to someone who was there,almost ringside,and sober and he said he couldnt believe the decision.also,he said he saw robert mccracken when leaving the venue and shouted "that was close,wasnt it rob?",who replied,"not even close,he won it easy".you would have thought,with no cameras rolling and to your average fan,he could have been a bit more honest.after the fury debacle,the loss of ITV and now this,mick h's empire is looking a bit shaky....

SO WHATS YOUR POINT , ROBERT THOUGHT FROCH WON CLEARLY , YOU SAY YOUD THINK HE WOULD BE HONEST WITH NO CAMERAS ETC , WELL HE PROBABLY WAS BEING HONEST

[jBacca]

AS I JUST SAID ON THE OTHER THREAD I HAD FROCH 4 ROUNDS UP SO CERTAINLY CAN SEE WHY HE WON , I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT PEOPLE SCORED THE CLOSER ROUNDS DIFFERENT TO ME , IVE ONLY JUST COME ONE HERE AS IVE JUST GOT HOME AND IM SHOCKED TO SEE THE OPINONS ON HERE , YES IT WAS A POOR FIGHT BUT I DIDNT SPEAK TO A SINGLE PERSON IN THE ARENA OR OUTSIDE ETC THAT THOUGH DIRELL WON , NOT ONE . COMPLETELY PUZZLED , EVERYONE WHERE I WAS SAT WAS SHOCKED IT WAS EVEN A SPLIT DECISION AS ALL DIRRELL DID WAS SPOIL .
NOT DEBATING IT OUT WITH ANYONE AS I CAN SEE THAT ON HERE EVERYONE THINKS DIFFERENTLY TO ME BUT IM REALLY SURPRISED .

i have just spoken to someone who was there,almost ringside,and sober and he said he couldnt believe the decision.also,he said he saw robert mccracken when leaving the venue and shouted "that was close,wasnt it rob?",who replied,"not even close,he won it easy".you would have thought,with no cameras rolling and to your average fan,he could have been a bit more honest.after the fury debacle,the loss of ITV and now this,mick h's empire is looking a bit shaky....

SO WHATS YOUR POINT , ROBERT THOUGHT FROCH WON CLEARLY , YOU SAY YOUD THINK HE WOULD BE HONEST WITH NO CAMERAS ETC , WELL HE PROBABLY WAS BEING HONEST

Froch's corner weren't happy at the time.. you could blatantly tell so. Must have been a huge relief.

[mickey1975]

AS I JUST SAID ON THE OTHER THREAD I HAD FROCH 4 ROUNDS UP SO CERTAINLY CAN SEE WHY HE WON , I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT PEOPLE SCORED THE CLOSER ROUNDS DIFFERENT TO ME , IVE ONLY JUST COME ONE HERE AS IVE JUST GOT HOME AND IM SHOCKED TO SEE THE OPINONS ON HERE , YES IT WAS A POOR FIGHT BUT I DIDNT SPEAK TO A SINGLE PERSON IN THE ARENA OR OUTSIDE ETC THAT THOUGH DIRELL WON , NOT ONE . COMPLETELY PUZZLED , EVERYONE WHERE I WAS SAT WAS SHOCKED IT WAS EVEN A SPLIT DECISION AS ALL DIRRELL DID WAS SPOIL .
NOT DEBATING IT OUT WITH ANYONE AS I CAN SEE THAT ON HERE EVERYONE THINKS DIFFERENTLY TO ME BUT IM REALLY SURPRISED .

i have just spoken to someone who was there,almost ringside,and sober and he said he couldnt believe the decision.also,he said he saw robert mccracken when leaving the venue and shouted "that was close,wasnt it rob?",who replied,"not even close,he won it easy".you would have thought,with no cameras rolling and to your average fan,he could have been a bit more honest.after the fury debacle,the loss of ITV and now this,mick h's empire is looking a bit shaky....

SO WHATS YOUR POINT , ROBERT THOUGHT FROCH WON CLEARLY , YOU SAY YOUD THINK HE WOULD BE HONEST WITH NO CAMERAS ETC , WELL HE PROBABLY WAS BEING HONEST

my point is,someone who is as experienced as mccracken does know what he is looking at,and i believe he is neither delusional nor blind.he is simply saying what he is expected to.very loyal trainer

[Hagler2002]

2) Everyone was probably drunk

4) I suspect the average Froch fan doesn't watch much boxing, so probably arent the best at scoring fights.

2) Everyone was drunk, the best fights I witnessed in the 5hrs I sat there were in the crowd they must have been 30 people ejected from the arena from what I seen

4) The crowd didn't have a clue, one of the the funniest things I have seen was when Gary Shaw got into the ring and started waving his hands up in the air to get the crowd going and they all started cheering him not having a clue who he was until some other bloke got in with him with 2 US flags then they all started booing

[damianhucker1]

i have just spoken to someone who was there,almost ringside,and sober and he said he couldnt believe the decision.also,he said he saw robert mccracken when leaving the venue and shouted "that was close,wasnt it rob?",who replied,"not even close,he won it easy".you would have thought,with no cameras rolling and to your average fan,he could have been a bit more honest.after the fury debacle,the loss of ITV and now this,mick h's empire is looking a bit shaky....[/quote]

SO WHATS YOUR POINT , ROBERT THOUGHT FROCH WON CLEARLY , YOU SAY YOUD THINK HE WOULD BE HONEST WITH NO CAMERAS ETC , WELL HE PROBABLY WAS BEING HONEST[/quote]
my point is,someone who is as experienced as mccracken does know what he is looking at,and i believe he is neither delusional nor blind.he is simply saying what he is expected to.very loyal trainer[/quote]

NOT DELUSIONAL NOR BLIND , KNOWS WHAT HES LOOKING AT , YOUD EXPECT HIM TO TELL THE TRUTH WITH NO CAMERAS , WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU , THAT WHEN HE SAID NOT EVEN CLOSE HE MEANT IT .

[damianhucker1]

2) Everyone was probably drunk

4) I suspect the average Froch fan doesn't watch much boxing, so probably arent the best at scoring fights.

2) Everyone was drunk, the best fights I witnessed in the 5hrs I sat there were in the crowd they must have been 30 people ejected from the arena from what I seen

4) The crowd didn't have a clue, one of the the funniest things I have seen was when Gary Shaw got into the ring and started waving his hands up in the air to get the crowd going and they all started cheering him not having a clue who he was until some other bloke got in with him with 2 US flags then they all started booing

I AGREE I SAW THAT .

[Boxingmad]

I had Dirrell winning it, but unfortunately he boxed very negatively thus turning it into a very average fight.

At least with Kessler and Abraham you know they'll make more of a fight with Carl so I'm looking forward to those contests.

Great right hand from Arthur Abraham in the 12th against Taylor. Beautiful.

[stujones]

Damian,

When Robert said "he" did he mean Dirrell???

In all seriousness, its amazing how much friends will stick by their friends and be completely bias... I've seen that in non TV fights. Friends telling everyone during the fight "he's losing" shouting at the fighter "you need a KO" (and meaning it) and then when given the gift saying "close, but he did deserve to win!!".

[damianhucker1]

Damian,

When Robert said "he" did he mean Dirrell???

In all seriousness, its amazing how much friends will stick by their friends and be completely bias... I've seen that in non TV fights. Friends telling everyone during the fight "he's losing" shouting at the fighter "you need a KO" (and meaning it) and then when given the gift saying "close, but he did deserve to win!!".

NO I AGREE PAL BUT JUST FEEL IM RIGHT THAT FROCH WON , END OF , WE CAN GO ON AND ON ALL NIGHT , MAKES NO ODDS , WELL HAVE ENOUGH DEBATE AND ARGUMENTS TO DO OUR OWN PPV CARD OF BOXREC MEMBERS , AND NO DOUBT IT WOULD BE MORE EXCITING THAN THE TRIPE ON SHOW LAST NIGHT

[WildWaylon]

Stop being stupid.

I had Dirrell winning the fight but Froch is hardly finished even if Abraham and Kessler beat him.

I think Kessler is now a massive favourite - but to say Froch is finished is plain stupid.

Kessler and Abraham will beat him, that is for certain. Froch isnt finished, I agree, but at this level he is. These guys are in another league.

[damianhucker1]

Stop being stupid.

I had Dirrell winning the fight but Froch is hardly finished even if Abraham and Kessler beat him.

I think Kessler is now a massive favourite - but to say Froch is finished is plain stupid.

Kessler and Abraham will beat him, that is for certain. Froch isnt finished, I agree, but at this level he is. These guys are in another league.

KESSLER WILL BEAT FROCH I RECKON BUT DONT THINK ABRAHAM WILL , BUT WE WILL JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE HOW IT ALL PANS OUT , IM SURE THERE WILL BE A SHOCK RESULT OR 2 ALONG THE WAY , MAYBE ANDRE WARD DESTROYS THE WHOLE FIELD , WHO KNOWS TIME WILL TELL

[Steve89]

I can see Crotch losing his next two fights by a wide margin UD or knockout.This boy can't box for sh*t.I just seen the fight now and it was embarassing how he went on after like he won it easy!The f**ker was out-boxed,out-hustled & was damn lucky the two judges that gave him the fight have no f**kin integrity.His girlfriend is a f**kin loudmouth assed bitch,screaming here head off calling Dirrell a faggot-classy broad alright!And whats this sh*t about Crotch having a granite chin?The chump was hurt more than once in the fight and Direll isn't even a puncher.So now all the rest of the tournament contestants know that he is a f**kin useless boxer with an ok chin and wildly overhyped power.He's going down in flames in this tournament,that Direll was robbed blind.Talk about Robbing Hood,steal from the rich-Direll who is rich in skill and speed,to give to the poor assed boxer that is Carl Crotch.karma is a bitch called Mikkel Kessler and he's coming for Crotch

[Steve89]

I can't believe how many people think that Dirrell was robbed!

He didn't throw hardly any punches, looked foolish falling over, looked like an amatuer when holding all the time, looked hurt everytime Froch managed to hit him.

He's just trying to fool people with his movement that clearly went in the later rounds and trying to be a poor mans Mayweather or Jones jnr.

Having watched many of Dirrells fights on Youtube, he looks quite aggresive when he knows that he's fighting people who he can easily beat but when he gets into the ring with someone who can easily beat him he goes on a run around the ring, a completely over rated boxer who hasn't got anything apart from speed.

Froch was trying to make a fight of it and must of threw more punches and wouldn't be suprised if he landed more.

I just wonder what people will be saying when Froch fights Kessler

Maybe something like,"Look at those pigs flying".You are just buying into the sh*t talk Crotch was saying after the fight.It doesnt matter if Direll held or ran or complained,he still won the f*ckin fight mate.If his speed went in the later rounds how did he manage to hurt Crotch and avoid all of his punches too?Crotch is overrated if anything.You are right he did try to make a fight out of it but he couldn't cos the f*cker can't even cut off the ring,the current WBC champ can't do the mere basics,he's a joke.He landed piss all the whole fight,Direll landed more no doubt.Why are you trying to defend someone who just got a gift decision?If this happened to Crotch you would be shouting robbery and you would be right.This attitude amazes me,have a bit of class and admit he was beat.

[forcefraser]

I can't believe how many people think that Dirrell was robbed!

He didn't throw hardly any punches, looked foolish falling over, looked like an amatuer when holding all the time, looked hurt everytime Froch managed to hit him.

He's just trying to fool people with his movement that clearly went in the later rounds and trying to be a poor mans Mayweather or Jones jnr.

Having watched many of Dirrells fights on Youtube, he looks quite aggresive when he knows that he's fighting people who he can easily beat but when he gets into the ring with someone who can easily beat him he goes on a run around the ring, a completely over rated boxer who hasn't got anything apart from speed.

Froch was trying to make a fight of it and must of threw more punches and wouldn't be suprised if he landed more.

I just wonder what people will be saying when Froch fights Kessler

Maybe something like,"Look at those pigs flying".You are just buying into the sh*t talk Crotch was saying after the fight.It doesnt matter if Direll held or ran or complained,he still won the f*ckin fight mate.If his speed went in the later rounds how did he manage to hurt Crotch and avoid all of his punches too?Crotch is overrated if anything.You are right he did try to make a fight out of it but he couldn't cos the f*cker can't even cut off the ring,the current WBC champ can't do the mere basics,he's a joke.He landed piss all the whole fight,Direll landed more no doubt.Why are you trying to defend someone who just got a gift decision?If this happened to Crotch you would be shouting robbery and you would be right.This attitude amazes me,have a bit of class and admit he was beat.

A bit of class? Mate, try drinking a spoonfull of the same medicine. Did Froch used to steal your dinner money at school or something?

[Steve89]

Even though Froch lost by 2-3 rounds, I could see why people in the cheap seats in the arena may have scored it differently...

1) It could have looked from a distance like Froch's shots were landing, when in fact Dirrel made him miss 90 percent of the time
2) Everyone was probably drunk
3) The crowd were obviously behind the hometown man. When you are biased you see things differently.... You also convince yourself your man is winning
4) I suspect the average Froch fan doesn't watch much boxing, so probably arent the best at scoring fights.

I AGREE THAT ALL THOSE FACTORS COULD HAVE COME INTO PLAY BUT I FEEL FROCH WON BY 4 ROUNDS , FROCH ALTHOUGH MANY SHOTS HE THREW DIDNT LAND PROPERLY HE THREW A LOT MORE THAN DIRRELL DID , DIRRELL JUST THREW A JAB AND RAN , THREW A JAB AND RAN ETC ETC ALL NIGHT , THIS ISNT AMATEUR BOXING ITS NOT ALL ABOUT SCORING PUNCHES , SHOWING AGGRESSION AND INTENT ALSO COME INTO IT ,ALTHOUGH I WOULD SAY OVER THE COURSE OF THE FIGHT THEY PROBABLY LANDED AN EQUAL AMOUNT OF PUNCHES BUT FROCH THREW FAR MORE THAN DIRRELL , ADMITTEDLY NOWHERE NEAR THE VOLUME OR QUALITY OF HIS USUAL SELF BUT IF THEY LAND FAIRLY EQUALLY AND FROCH SHOWED MORE AGGRESSION THEN IN ALL FAIRNESS EVEN FROM JUST THAT ITSELF ID GIVE IT FROCH

Newsflash bud,you don't win rounds for punches thrown,he threw plenty...at thin air.If Direll was so negative how did he hurt Crotch in the later rounds?It's hard to believe that a bunch of drunk Froch fans had him winning Did you see the faces on his common as muck bird,she knew he lost.Froch and his fans have no shame,it's no wonder no TV station will pick up this dirty bastards fights,he's a cocky arogant prick with nothing to back it up.He makes me have a respect for boxers like Haye,he is a cocky sod but he can box.Froch can't.

[Steve89]

I can't believe how many people think that Dirrell was robbed!

He didn't throw hardly any punches, looked foolish falling over, looked like an amatuer when holding all the time, looked hurt everytime Froch managed to hit him.

He's just trying to fool people with his movement that clearly went in the later rounds and trying to be a poor mans Mayweather or Jones jnr.

Having watched many of Dirrells fights on Youtube, he looks quite aggresive when he knows that he's fighting people who he can easily beat but when he gets into the ring with someone who can easily beat him he goes on a run around the ring, a completely over rated boxer who hasn't got anything apart from speed.

Froch was trying to make a fight of it and must of threw more punches and wouldn't be suprised if he landed more.

I just wonder what people will be saying when Froch fights Kessler

Maybe something like,"Look at those pigs flying".You are just buying into the sh*t talk Crotch was saying after the fight.It doesnt matter if Direll held or ran or complained,he still won the f*ckin fight mate.If his speed went in the later rounds how did he manage to hurt Crotch and avoid all of his punches too?Crotch is overrated if anything.You are right he did try to make a fight out of it but he couldn't cos the f*cker can't even cut off the ring,the current WBC champ can't do the mere basics,he's a joke.He landed piss all the whole fight,Direll landed more no doubt.Why are you trying to defend someone who just got a gift decision?If this happened to Crotch you would be shouting robbery and you would be right.This attitude amazes me,have a bit of class and admit he was beat.

A bit of class? Mate, try drinking a spoonfull of the same medicine. Did Froch used to steal your dinner money at school or something?

No but if I was in school with him I've no doubt he would have.Class is admitting he lost whether you like him or not.I never liked him but had respect for him,now I just think he is a classless twat who just got a schooling,but let's just say he won because he's Brtish eh?