How Would Ken Norton Fare Against Other HWS

[ThatOne]

Max Baer (Puts Baer to sleep in 5)

Joe Louis (The Brown Bomber puts Norton to sleep in 2)

Rocky Marciano (TKO for Rocky in 11)

Floyd Patterson ( Floyd by UD)

Ingo ( Norton by 4th round TKO)

Sonny Liston ( This doesn't end well for Norton. KO for Liston in Round !)

Mike Tyson (Neither does this,KO for Tyson in Round1)

Evander Holyfield (Holy by a UD)

Lennox Lewis (This doesn't end up well either. Lewis by a first round KO)

Norton was good but just didn't handle sluggers well...He was able to give top five hws like Holmes and Ali fits because they couldn't hurt him even if they outpointed him.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Norton-Baer'd be interesting. Not sure how that'd play out.

Louis stops him in about eight.

Marciano would catch up with him eventually, &, after being wary of Johansson's power, Norton would do the same to him. You've got swing-affairs with Patterson, Lewis & Holyfield, but, sorry to say, Tyson & Liston devastate him.

[dempseyfire]

Loses to Baer by KO

Ditto vs Louis

Marciano stops him late but a Norton decision win wouldn't shock me

Knocks out Patterson

Knocks out Johansson

Loses to Liston by KO

Loses to Tyson by KO

Beats Holyfield via MD in an all-time classic

Norton is actually a very bad style matchup for Lennox . . Norton TKO 6.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Norton would give Lennox hell and while he had issues with sluggers, lets not act like Lennox was a slugger and he also was prone to punchers, overhand rights if I recall. I can't say kenny wins for sure but I'm quite certain it goes past one and i doubt Lewis knocks him out at all. If he wins, it's a close decision.

[jezzamundo]

Loses to Baer by KO

Ditto vs Louis

Marciano stops him late but a Norton decision win wouldn't shock me

Knocks out Patterson

Knocks out Johansson

Loses to Liston by KO

Loses to Tyson by KO

Beats Holyfield via MD in an all-time classic

Norton is actually a very bad style matchup for Lennox . . Norton TKO 6.

I actually agree with all but one of your picks, although I think the fights with Patterson and Lewis fights are swing picks. I'd go for Norton over Patterson, but wouldn't be surprised if Patterson knocked Norton out. Either way, I don't think it's a fight that goes the distance.
I can see why you like Norton over Lewis, but I think that Lennox wins this most of the time, usually by an early rounds KO. It is not a fight that Lewis wins with his jab, he would have to be aggressive and take risks, and history shows that Kenny folds under pressure and power punching. A prime Norton is no Ruddock or Golota, but I feel confident that Lennox wins this one.

[The Great John L]

Max Baer stops Norton in 4. Assuming that Baer actually trains for the fight, otherwise an ill-prepared Baer gets out pointed by a wide margin.

Joe Louis KO1

Rocky Marciano stops Norton between 8-10 after losing almost every round.

Floyd Patterson takes a close decision.

Ingo rocks Norton early, then fades and gets stopped in the 7th.

Sonny Liston gains control from the first bell and stops Norton in the 3rd.

Mike Tyson KO1

Evander Holyfield controls most of the early rounds before falling behind after going dormant in the middle rounds. A furious rally in the late rounds is met by a determined Norton who hangs on to take a close decision from Evander.

Lennox Lewis struggles with the awkward Norton, falling behind on the cards before landing a straight right in the 8th that drops Norton for the count.

So I’ve got Norton going 2-7.

[BoxBuzz]

Norton has a "Tarveresque" personna to me.

A boutique fighter who presented a huge challenge to a great fighter, but could be somewhat ordinary outside of that realm. It's an unusual niche for a fighter, and I can't think of lots of examples, but these two may be the Icons of what I'm trying to define here.

Does that make sense to anyone but me?

[Mr E]

Max Baer (Puts Baer to sleep in 5)

Joe Louis (The Brown Bomber puts Norton to sleep in 2)

Rocky Marciano (TKO for Rocky in 11)

Floyd Patterson ( Floyd by UD)

Ingo ( Norton by 4th round TKO)

Sonny Liston ( This doesn't end well for Norton. KO for Liston in Round !)

Mike Tyson (Neither does this,KO for Tyson in Round1)

Evander Holyfield (Holy by a UD)

Lennox Lewis (This doesn't end up well either. Lewis by a first round KO)

Norton was good but just didn't handle sluggers well...He was able to give top five hws like Holmes and Ali fits because they couldn't hurt him even if they outpointed him.

I think Norton was a head case. I don't think he was frightened against Foreman and Shavers as much as he choked. Wasn't sure what to do and so froze up a little.

From this group, I think he beats Patterson for sure, and probably Baer and Ingo as well. He'd give Holyfield a serious run for his money, but I like Evander on points. Otherwise, he's overmatched, IMO.

[Mr E]

Norton has a "Tarveresque" personna to me.

A boutique fighter who presented a huge challenge to a great fighter, but could be somewhat ordinary outside of that realm. It's an unusual niche for a fighter, and I can't think of lots of examples, but these two may be the Icons of what I'm trying to define here.

Does that make sense to anyone but me?

Makes a lot of sense. As other examples, Young Corbett & Terry McGovern, maybe, or Fritzie Zivic & Henry Armstrong? But maybe I'm not giving Corbett and Zivic enough credit.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I disagree. Rather, I believe the fights with Ali overshadow his career heavily. He rarely looked, "ordinary." He was a very capable fighter, who was short, obviously, of greatness.

If you stuck him in another Heavweight era, he'd do well, & make champion in several decades.

[dempseyfire]

I agree. Norton proved in his fights with Quarry, Holmes, Young and even lesser but capable foes in Middleton and Garcia (rematch) that he was a force who would be dangerous in any decade. The popular argument that Norton was just a guy who had a style to trouble Ali is nonsense, as is the argument that he 'froze' against any guy with KO power.

[Mr E]

I agree. Norton proved in his fights with Quarry, Holmes, Young and even lesser but capable foes in Middleton and Garcia (rematch) that he was a force who would be dangerous in any decade. The popular argument that Norton was just a guy who had a style to trouble Ali is nonsense, as is the argument that he 'froze' against any guy with KO power.

I don't think Norton froze against "any guy with KO power." Quarry had KO power, as did Boone Kirkman, Pedro Lovell, even Duane Bobick. But against 3 really big hitters -- Foreman, Shavers, and Cooney -- he fought badly, seeming not to take advantage full advantage of his skill set and range of capabilities. Call it what you want but, in my opinion, you put a different brain in that body and you might very well have gotten different results.

BTW, Jose Luis Garcia had talent coming out of his ears. At 190, he was a cruiserweight with huge potential-- fast, strong, good boxer, hit a ton. He beat Norton in the first fight not because Norton was inexperienced but because Garcia was the better fighter. After a few years taking drugs and skipping workouts, waddling in at 215 or whatever he weighed for the rematch, he was not anywhere close to the same fighter.

[Goodnight, Irene]

^^^However, Norton was on the slide when he met Shavers, & completely disinterested & faded when he faced Cooney.

Maybe those results needed a younger Norton, rather than a different mindset, to change.

[Mr E]

^^^However, Norton was on the slide when he met Shavers, & completely disinterested & faded when he faced Cooney.

Maybe those results needed a younger Norton, rather than a different mindset, to change.

I don't know, man-- he may have been "on the slide" by the time he encountered Shavers but he wasn't on the slide much. I think Shavers would have done the same to any version of Norton.

Regarding the Cooney fight, he was far from uninterested-- to the contrary, I think he imagined a stunning upset followed by another shot at the Easton Assassin. But then he got in the ring and darn near fainted.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Ernie Shavers & George foreman can knock out a lot of men early. Kenny was fine between the ears, his chin wasn't china, nor was it granite. What he did have was a big chink in his defensive armor for upper cuts and Ernie and George destroyed him with them.

The Cooney fight meant nothing imo, no different than Scott Ledoux hammering him around the ring.

[BoxBuzz]

Ezzard Charles beats Kenny Norton

I think a Patterson Norton fight would be interesting......

[dempseyfire]

Come on, Norton was way past it vs Cooney, that's like bringing up Danny Williams when discussing Mike Tyson.

Just look at Norton slightly before vs light hitting Cobb, he looked a shell of his former self.

[Mr E]

Come on, Norton was way past it vs Cooney, that's like bringing up Danny Williams when discussing Mike Tyson.

Just look at Norton slightly before vs light hitting Cobb, he looked a shell of his former self.

Sure he was past his prime against Cooney. But it's not like he made a gallant effort. Seriously, do you really think that 1976 Norton does much better against Cooney than the 1981 Norton did? Maybe, but I doubt it.

[Mr E]

Ernie Shavers & George foreman can knock out a lot of men early. Kenny was fine between the ears, his chin wasn't china, nor was it granite. What he did have was a big chink in his defensive armor for upper cuts and Ernie and George destroyed him with them.

The Cooney fight meant nothing imo, no different than Scott Ledoux hammering him around the ring.

Well, Foreman and Shavers did hit Norton with some uppercuts, along with everything else but the kitchen sink, but, IMO, it's just not true that Norton lost those fights due to any unnatural susceptibility to uppercuts. He lost those fights because he did absolutely zero to stop those 2 huge bombers from planting their feet and unloading on him.

[dempseyfire]

Come on, Norton was way past it vs Cooney, that's like bringing up Danny Williams when discussing Mike Tyson.

Just look at Norton slightly before vs light hitting Cobb, he looked a shell of his former self.

Sure he was past his prime against Cooney. But it's not like he made a gallant effort. Seriously, do you really think that 1976 Norton does much better against Cooney than the 1981 Norton did? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Yes, I definitely do. A 1976 Norton would've knocked Gerry out.

[Mr E]

Come on, Norton was way past it vs Cooney, that's like bringing up Danny Williams when discussing Mike Tyson.

Just look at Norton slightly before vs light hitting Cobb, he looked a shell of his former self.

Sure he was past his prime against Cooney. But it's not like he made a gallant effort. Seriously, do you really think that 1976 Norton does much better against Cooney than the 1981 Norton did? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Yes, I definitely do. A 1976 Norton would've knocked Gerry out.

Ha ha. Maybe when we get to Heaven we can share a beer and watch the fight-- with a little side bet, of course.