Is Glen Johnson really Archie Moore?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Dec 2004, 11:52

I admire Johnson, terrific old pro, still, he looks as old now as Archie did in his mid 40's.

I was just reading Archie's autobiography from the 60's what a fantastic insight into the man, he really was such a character, musician, actor, raconteur, fried chicken salesman, boxer.

I wonder if there was some freak genetics which created his longevity. I certainly think he was a very intelligent man with a real intuitive sense which helped, but to be in the condition he was in in his mid 40's is quite amazing.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 16 Dec 2004, 11:54

i think he is just a top ten boxer. RJJ is done. a lot of guys would beat him. i watched both fights vs Woods and of course the one vs. Svennie-darling. Johnson hasn´t convinced till now.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 16 Dec 2004, 11:54

Maybe it's just me, but Glen looks remarkably like the Ol' Mongoose in that shot. Fitting, really, given he's a throwback fighter.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 16 Dec 2004, 11:57

BubiScholz wrote:i think he is just a top ten boxer. RJJ is done. a lot of guys would beat him. i watched both fights vs Woods and of course the one vs. Svennie-darling. Johnson hasn´t convinced till now.

Stick to heavyweights Bubi. He kicked Ulrich's arse big-style and only AFTER battering Roy Jones was Jones considered totally shot. Where were you when the odds on a Johnson win were something like 8/1? Tipping Jones no doubt.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Dec 2004, 12:04

Should have got the nod against Gonzales too, and Judah....

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 16 Dec 2004, 12:07

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Should have got the nod against Gonzales too, and Judah....

and Branco... who showed his class by schooling the talented Ulrich for 11 rounds before walking onto a huge shot

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 16 Dec 2004, 12:14

bennie wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:i think he is just a top ten boxer. RJJ is done. a lot of guys would beat him. i watched both fights vs Woods and of course the one vs. Svennie-darling. Johnson hasn´t convinced till now.
Stick to heavyweights Bubi. He kicked Ulrich's arse big-style and only AFTER battering Roy Jones was Jones considered totally shot. Where were you when the odds on a Johnson win were something like 8/1? Tipping Jones no doubt.

Ulrich was no top ten boxer when he fought Johnson. he only was convincing in his last fight and in the fight vs Rocky. but Sven Otke outclassed him in super middle. a win vs Jones is like a win vs Tyson. as i have always said Jones was overrated in the last ten years. after the Tarver-fight a knock out was not out of reach. i was cheering for Johnson in this fight BTW. i have never been a supporter of RJJ. you should know that.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 16 Dec 2004, 12:24

bennie wrote:Maybe it's just me, but Glen looks remarkably like the Ol' Mongoose in that shot. Fitting, really, given he's a throwback fighter.

Ive foten thought of this also. strange how you never see the two of them in the same ring together eh??

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 16 Dec 2004, 12:28

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Dec 2004, 12:55

Similar careers, both started at middleweight, and travelled all over the world chasing a buck, both had numerous decisions against them, and then ended up light heavyweight champions.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 16 Dec 2004, 12:59

BubiScholz wrote:
bennie wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:i think he is just a top ten boxer. RJJ is done. a lot of guys would beat him. i watched both fights vs Woods and of course the one vs. Svennie-darling. Johnson hasn´t convinced till now.
Stick to heavyweights Bubi. He kicked Ulrich's arse big-style and only AFTER battering Roy Jones was Jones considered totally shot. Where were you when the odds on a Johnson win were something like 8/1? Tipping Jones no doubt.
Ulrich was no top ten boxer when he fought Johnson. he only was convincing in his last fight and in the fight vs Rocky. but Sven Otke outclassed him in super middle. a win vs Jones is like a win vs Tyson. as i have always said Jones was overrated in the last ten years. after the Tarver-fight a knock out was not out of reach. i was cheering for Johnson in this fight BTW. i have never been a supporter of RJJ. you should know that.

He wasn't outclassed by Ottke. The German really struggled with the hard-hitting, clever style of the Jamaican and needed a big finish to get home by two scores of 115-113 and 116-112 (in Dusseldorf).
And Ulrich was 20-0 when he got turned over in his own hometown of Berlin by Johnson.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 16 Dec 2004, 13:01

IMO Archie Moore is a top ten all time great, 28 year boxing career, won 185 (131 ko's) - lost 24 - drawn 11 - tot 221 .

131 Ko's, what a puncher.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 16 Dec 2004, 13:13

Amazing to think a guy called Shorty Hogue had THREE wins over Moore.
How good must've that guy been?

Archie got him in the end though, when he came in as a last minute sub for his brother....Big Boy Houge!!

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=009985

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Dec 2004, 13:13

Archie Moore is a fighter who I would like to see more of, but I don't think there's a great deal of him on tape.

Anyone know if there are many of his fights around, I've seen excerpts of stuff with Marciano, but I'd love to get his fights with Ezzard Charles, especially as Archie claims he was robbed in his book in two of those fights.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 16 Dec 2004, 13:22

bennie wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:
bennie wrote: Stick to heavyweights Bubi. He kicked Ulrich's arse big-style and only AFTER battering Roy Jones was Jones considered totally shot. Where were you when the odds on a Johnson win were something like 8/1? Tipping Jones no doubt.
Ulrich was no top ten boxer when he fought Johnson. he only was convincing in his last fight and in the fight vs Rocky. but Sven Otke outclassed him in super middle. a win vs Jones is like a win vs Tyson. as i have always said Jones was overrated in the last ten years. after the Tarver-fight a knock out was not out of reach. i was cheering for Johnson in this fight BTW. i have never been a supporter of RJJ. you should know that.
He wasn't outclassed by Ottke. The German really struggled with the hard-hitting, clever style of the Jamaican and needed a big finish to get home by two scores of 115-113 and 116-112 (in Dusseldorf).
And Ulrich was 20-0 when he got turned over in his own hometown of Berlin by Johnson.

Ulrich was just a 25-year-old talent. and otke is a super middle. that shows that Johnson is nothing special in light heavy.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Dec 2004, 13:29

What do you mean JUST 25, like that makes him a teenager or something.

Yet another case of someone not wanting to give a non-european any credit.

What about Gonzales? Gonzales was good enough to beat Dariusz, even if Dariusz was past his best, he was still a top 5 LH, and Johnson beat

Johnson is a small light heavyweight, but that doesn't make him a poor fighter.

I am going for the upset with Johnson against Tarver, I'm pretty much a lone voice pissing in the wind.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 16 Dec 2004, 14:26

jamesmcdonnell wrote:What do you mean JUST 25, like that makes him a teenager or something.

Yet another case of someone not wanting to give a non-european any credit.

What about Gonzales? Gonzales was good enough to beat Dariusz, even if Dariusz was past his best, he was still a top 5 LH, and Johnson beat

Johnson is a small light heavyweight, but that doesn't make him a poor fighter.

I am going for the upset with Johnson against Tarver, I'm pretty much a lone voice pissing in the wind.

Ulrich was there a top 20 or top 30 fighter. maybe now he is top ten. that´s what i wanted to say.

Gonzalez outboxed DM. that´s true. and Gonzalez is maybe a top 5 fighter. i think DM was overmotivated because of the Marciano-record. that made him unactive.

i konow that a lot of people here like Johnson and don´t like DM. i am sure that DM would have konocked out Johnson.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 16 Dec 2004, 14:35

topper123 wrote:IMO Archie Moore is a top ten all time great, 28 year boxing career, won 185 (131 ko's) - lost 24 - drawn 11 - tot 221 .

131 Ko's, what a puncher.

Agreed. A freak in the nicest possible sense. His career stats will never be equalled.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 16 Dec 2004, 14:56

I always thought there was a physical resemblence between Johnson and Sonny Liston

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 16 Dec 2004, 19:22

I'd go along with that. Liston rather than Moore I think.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 16 Dec 2004, 23:47

stujones wrote:I always thought there was a physical resemblence between Johnson and Sonny Liston

I always think my mate James looks like Sonny Liston. and the strange thing is ive never seen liston, glencoffee or james in the one room at the same time...

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 17 Dec 2004, 06:14

I'd like to look like a young George Foreman, unfortunatly i look like a old George Formby

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 17 Dec 2004, 06:18

MightyWarrior wrote:Amazing to think a guy called Shorty Hogue had THREE wins over Moore.
How good must've that guy been?

Archie got him in the end though, when he came in as a last minute sub for his brother....Big Boy Houge!!

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=009985

According to Moore, hogue was a great fighter, in those days though, losses were no big deal, you took them as part of your learning process, and picked up and carried on. Bearing in mind that nobody saw videos of one another, or even knew their opponents records, it's not surprising really. Moore was also a very small light heavyweight for most of his career often weighing in under 170 on the night.

Archie had a 48 inch chest, remarkable for a guy who started at middleweight.

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 17 Dec 2004, 06:38

Great story about Moore, can't remember what journalist told this but he was interviewing Moore over dinner about a fortnight before a fight (think it was before his fight with Yolande Pompey (WK10) in London) and Moore was going on about having to keep in shape and his longevity was down to his skill and fitness.

He said that during dinner, Moore would chew the goodness out of his steak, then spit it out so he would not put weight on and he turned down dessert.

He said he was amazed at Moore's dedication to the sport after so many fights and years in the game.....

then Moore ordered a double brandy and lit up a huge cigar. Class!