1960 Patterson v. Johansson

perrycarter · Post by **perrycarter** » 09 Sep 2004, 19:29

The second installment of the trilogy between these two. What were the circumstances around this fight? Did many give Floyd a shot to recapture the title? Also, does anyone know the betting odds for this one?

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 10 Sep 2004, 02:33

..i can't give you the odds. but i can muse about about what i remember. johannsenn became a media favorite after the first fight, and he was the favorite to win the rematch. one reason was because of the skepticism that greeted him when he came over to train. he had his girl friend with him in camp and in sparring sessions just didn't throw the heralded right hand...his "toonder and lightning"...so he wasn't taken with much seriousness. then when the toonder did release the lightning the reverse went a little bit over board the other way. some thought he was new max baer....new excitement in the heavy division...etc. just before the second fight sports illustrated printed an artist's drawings of the problems patterson would have. they showed the range of ingo' jab and how that would make it so hard for floyd to get in or get away...how ingo's right hand was so powerful and fast and how he could throw in without a left hand lead...and on paper it looked bad for floyd. some sports writers wrote off entirely his chances of regaining the title. again, though, i don't know how this affected the odds. my guess is they wouldn't have been overwhelming against him because there was also the possibility than ingo was a fluke...bu they WERE against him.

when floyd knocked him out he went to the ropes and looked down at the press section with kind of "i told you i wasn't a bum" cheer. you can see this in still pictures if you dig back into the archives. i'm mentioning this only because it indicates the low regard in which the press in general held him.

i'm also mentiioning it because i get much too wordy much too often in these discussions.

Tootall · Post by **Tootall** » 10 Sep 2004, 02:43

I like that comment about the new Max Baer...

Johansson is still regarded as an all time great by some writers and I just don't see it. One of the weakest heavyweight champs ever.( although he did knock out Machen didn't he... ). OK, a step above some of those alphabet pretenders from the eighties.

Palais · Post by **Palais** » 12 Sep 2004, 19:53

The contract for the first fight included an option of a mandatory re-match, if Johansson would win the title.
Ingemar blamed his loss on wrong diet, and claimed fatal mistakes in his defensive tactics. He was already too much focused on getting ready for Liston, staying away from a left jab, just like Ali did later.
He didn't avoid Patterson's left hook by ducking side-ways or forward. Instead, he ducked backwards and got nailed right on the money.
In their rubber-bout, he ducked side-ways and forward, but got nailed by a rabbit-punch in the neck instead, that knocked out his legs.
That's how he explained the outcome of the second fight in an interview and added that being hit so hard and precise for his first ever KO loss affected the rest of his career.

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 14 Sep 2004, 05:35

Odds:
1st fight: 4-1 Patterson
2nd fight: 8-5 Johansson
3rd fight: 17-5 Patterson

Sweet Scientist · Post by **Sweet Scientist** » 15 Sep 2004, 02:33

wouter wrote:Odds:
1st fight: 4-1 Patterson
2nd fight: 8-5 Johansson
3rd fight: 17-5 Patterson

I'm amazed at the odds for the 1st fight...Patterson's weak chin, Johansson's right hand, the Machen KO...you'd think that all added up to 6-5 odds or something like that...

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 17 Sep 2004, 17:19

One story I did hear about the first Patterson V Johansson fight was after the fight the beaten Patterson went to a hotel to see the singer Frank Sinatra. On entering the room Sinatra just turned his back on the former Champ and refused to talk to him, Patterson was then guided out of the room.

Very bad manners from Sinatra IMO.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 17 Sep 2004, 23:14

that story is also told about the first liston fight and the second liston fight. most of the time it has patterson sitting down next to sinatra and sinatra gets up and walks away...other times he moves to the other side of the room. so...wadda ya gonna believe?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 18 Sep 2004, 07:02

Jaclem wrote:that story is also told about the first liston fight and the second liston fight. most of the time it has patterson sitting down next to sinatra and sinatra gets up and walks away...other times he moves to the other side of the room. so...wadda ya gonna believe?

Maybe it was the Liston fight, it's been years since I read that story, I lean towards it being the first Johansson fight because I thought Sinatras behavior was due to Floyd losing to a non Americain fighter.

mrboxhist · Post by **mrboxhist** » 15 Dec 2004, 06:38

Floyd Patterson's manager Cus D'Amato was a very cautious manager. He enforced a re-match clause in the contract. He sensed the power of the Hammer of Thor's.
Ingemar come totally unprepared to the second fight. He had not trained properly. There were to many extracurricular activities on his mind. He had spent the past year doing movies, commercials, been a frequent guest at radio- and TV-shows, he acted as a model, and he made hundreds of exhibitions, etc. Of course he earned a fortune doing this, but at the cost of losing his crown.
For me, Ingo's finest moment was when he knocked Eddie Machen cold in September 1958.

Christer Franzén
Boxing historian and author of RINGSIDE The history of professianal boxing in Sweden.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 15 Dec 2004, 14:13

mrboxhist wrote:Floyd Patterson's manager Cus D'Amato was a very cautious manager. He enforced a re-match clause in the contract. He sensed the power of the Hammer of Thor's.
Ingemar come totally unprepared to the second fight. He had not trained properly. There were to many extracurricular activities on his mind. He had spent the past year doing movies, commercials, been a frequent guest at radio- and TV-shows, he acted as a model, and he made hundreds of exhibitions, etc. Of course he earned a fortune doing this, but at the cost of losing his crown.
For me, Ingo's finest moment was when he knocked Eddie Machen cold in September 1958.

Christer Franzén
Boxing historian and author of RINGSIDE The history of professianal boxing in Sweden.

Yes I recall reading about that, wasn't his girlfriend/wife always hanging around in training camp wth him for the Patterson rematch as well?

Palais · Post by **Palais** » 15 Dec 2004, 15:46

Yes I recall reading about that, wasn't his girlfriend/wife always hanging around in training camp wth him for the Patterson rematch as well?[/quote]

That's what the photographers liked to see!

THE DANCING MASTER · Post by **THE DANCING MASTER** » 15 Dec 2004, 22:31

I would rate Johansson a cut above some of the alphabet "champions" we have now days. The guy COULD PUNCH. If he landed that right hand LOOK OUT!!! He came close to winning the rubber match with Floyd as well if my memory serves me correctly. He was dangerous if he caught you early. In his book Victory Over Myself Floyd talked about how he was at home trying to sleep after the first fight and his wife woke him up because there was blood on the pillow. Turns out the blood was coming from his ear due to a punctured eardrum, courtesy of one of Ingo's rights. Floyd also didn't go out of his house for weeks afterwards. I have the second fight on video and yes, as Jaclem says, Floyd bent over the top rope to look down at the press. He also knelt down next to Ingo to check on his condition when Ingo still hadn't moved after a couple of minutes.
I heard the story about Frank rebuffing Floyd, but the version I read somewhere is that it was after the first fight with Ali in Vegas. Sadly, neither Ingo or Floyd is in good health these days. Does anybody have any updates on their conditions?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 16 Dec 2004, 13:07

THE DANCING MASTER wrote:I have the second fight on video and yes, as Jaclem says, Floyd bent over the top rope to look down at the press. He also knelt down next to Ingo to check on his condition when Ingo still hadn't moved after a couple of minutes.

That's right I also remember the sight of Ingos foot twitching as he lay on the canvas with Floyd looking over him to see if he was ok.

mrboxhist · Post by **mrboxhist** » 17 Dec 2004, 19:42

Ingemar liked to have his family around him. Nothing wrong with that. And he favoured his mother´s meatballs to an American T-bone steak. His "lifestyle" surprised the american scribblers used to the more common monastery way to prepare for a fight.

The third fight was close. The stoppage in the 6th was debateble.
Ingo had four more fights, but he was never the same fighter after the wars with Floyd. Ingo enjoyed the privilege of a long count against third-rate Wim Snoek, and was saved by the bell by second-rate Brian London.

Christer Franzén

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 18 Dec 2004, 02:55

...was it the brian london fight which a british paper showed a picture of the next day, with ingo flat on the canvas and the headine said "wake up ingo...you won!"? the "saved by the bell" comment is what makes me recall that photo. also, before the fight ingo said his sister could beat brian london....so of course the press started calling for a match with him against her.

give the guy credit....he was smart and knew when to get out and invest his money wisely. plus...he didn't need to prove to himself or anyone else that he could continue .....unlike evander the commander and too many others.

the latest i've heard about floyd is he has good and bad days..but alas...the latter are outnumbering the first. haven't heard or read anything about ingo.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 20 Dec 2004, 21:47

I think Johansson is an underrated champion and a top 30 all-time heavyweight. Unfortunately, he wasn't always motivated and didn't come in in top shape for the Patterson rematches, which really cost him.

6 Pack · Post by **6 Pack** » 03 Jan 2005, 07:52

I was not aware Ingo was in bad health.

I knew about Floyd ofcourse. His fued with his son. Then him having to step down as head of commision because he was not right in the head anymore.

i remember he was not talking to his son for a long time. His son even had to fight infront of Floyd, who was the commisioner at the time, defending his belt against Arturo Gatti.

The HBO commentators were saying how that had to be hard for the poor kid. The feud was well publicized, and he was asked about it a lot. Eventually they made up.