OT: BNP

[jamesmcdonnell]

Griffin should have been allowed on as he represents a political party that has elected officials. That's beyond question.

It was a shame that the panel and audience couldn't resist the hammering they gave him as i think the most damaging result would have to shown how out of his depth he is in the usual political debate. I think the Liberal Democrat Chris Huhne (sp?) came across the best as he made some good points and didn't attack Griffin directly.

I think this attention is positive as the BNP has had to change their constitution now so that non-whites are no longer banned and the more attention Griffin gets the more he twists to avoid admitting what the BNP really stands for and if this continues they re-constitute themselves out of existance.

I believe Griffin is Oxbridge educated and was half expecting him to be smart enough to have a plan to come out looking better. It was obvious what he would be walking into. It surprises me that someone who might have serious deficiencies as a person but must be intelligent thinks he is the best public face for making the BNP mainstream. Maybe he simply is the most likeable, smart and eloquent member of the BNP - which says quite a lot.

No he isn't oxbridge educated that's cobblers. He's not an intelligent man at all. He got a 2:2 from a run of the mill university - hardly an intellectual titan is he?

[Mensa07]

Griffin should have been allowed on as he represents a political party that has elected officials. That's beyond question.

It was a shame that the panel and audience couldn't resist the hammering they gave him as i think the most damaging result would have to shown how out of his depth he is in the usual political debate. I think the Liberal Democrat Chris Huhne (sp?) came across the best as he made some good points and didn't attack Griffin directly.

I think this attention is positive as the BNP has had to change their constitution now so that non-whites are no longer banned and the more attention Griffin gets the more he twists to avoid admitting what the BNP really stands for and if this continues they re-constitute themselves out of existance.

I believe Griffin is Oxbridge educated and was half expecting him to be smart enough to have a plan to come out looking better. It was obvious what he would be walking into. It surprises me that someone who might have serious deficiencies as a person but must be intelligent thinks he is the best public face for making the BNP mainstream. Maybe he simply is the most likeable, smart and eloquent member of the BNP - which says quite a lot.

No he isn't oxbridge educated that's cobblers. He's not an intelligent man at all. He got a 2:2 from a run of the mill university - hardly an intellectual titan is he?

Cambridge.

[leforge]

I sure I read in a tabloid years ago there were rumours about his sexuality in his youth!

[Loynesy]

Griffin should have been allowed on as he represents a political party that has elected officials. That's beyond question.

It was a shame that the panel and audience couldn't resist the hammering they gave him as i think the most damaging result would have to shown how out of his depth he is in the usual political debate. I think the Liberal Democrat Chris Huhne (sp?) came across the best as he made some good points and didn't attack Griffin directly.

I think this attention is positive as the BNP has had to change their constitution now so that non-whites are no longer banned and the more attention Griffin gets the more he twists to avoid admitting what the BNP really stands for and if this continues they re-constitute themselves out of existance.

I believe Griffin is Oxbridge educated and was half expecting him to be smart enough to have a plan to come out looking better. It was obvious what he would be walking into. It surprises me that someone who might have serious deficiencies as a person but must be intelligent thinks he is the best public face for making the BNP mainstream. Maybe he simply is the most likeable, smart and eloquent member of the BNP - which says quite a lot.

No he isn't oxbridge educated that's cobblers. He's not an intelligent man at all. He got a 2:2 from a run of the mill university - hardly an intellectual titan is he?

James - he was at Downing College, Cambridge. That said, his director of studies, a rather wonderful man, once told me he was the most stupid, vile student he ever taught.

[whiskey]

I have the uptmost respect to manual labours.... I couldn't hack it, its a very proffesion. Plus, a mate of mine left school at 16 - became an electriction and has a far better bank balance than me - and is surely getting close to £50K a year!!! Even after a PhD - I'll never get that earning.

[/quote][/quote]

Good post and your right.

If a kid at school really really wants to do something particular in life that they love, then that is excellent.

However if my son were not sure i would definitely get him into a trade - and an electrical trade is one of the best alongside plumbing. People will always need power, water, heating, barbers, police and undertakers. They are dead-cert earners (especially the last one )

What his vocation is in life does not concern nearly as much as how he will handle going to school. There are some rough ones around my place.

[Spud]

Watched it and thought Griffin deservedly took a hammering from the public - however I find it absolutely stunning that those f*ckwits who call themselves politicians have found Griffin an easy scapegoat to hide their own glaring inadequacies!!!

Polticians in this country are a bunch of lieing and deceitful w*nkers!!!

[ourkid1984]

I think most MP's look like idiots when they go on Question time.

I think the BBC was out of order for producing the show in such a way that meant all the questions centered around the BNP and not any real pollicies. Look at who most of the pre arranged questions come from, annoyed and angry people who are from the minority who Griffin and the BNP are supposed to dislike and hate of course by doing that for the entirty of the programme any human being is going to look stupid.

If any of us were put in a room to answer questions and all the questions came from our ex's and people who we've had fights and arguments in the past, we would be under pressure and look stupid. Of course it's not the same thing but you can see where I'm coming from.

I didn't quite hear one of the questions but I'm sure it was about Enoch Powell, the Tory back in the 70's and it was disregarded because it was years ago. Surely if some tory's comments from years ago can be disregarded and obviously not what he would think now, surely even people like Griffin can change their mind about their policies?

Question time wasn't as fair as it normally is, even if they were hammering down on a far right bigot.

I remember an episode of Question time where someone supported the Hooks hamza's opinions and yet he didn't get hammered or even questioned yet Griffin does, that to me is not fair even if everyone does hate the man and his party.

Last night probably proved to Griffin that everyone is a little bit predudice in their own way and not everyone is as open to all as they let on.

No I'm not a BNP voter or supporter i just believe in giving everyone a chance and a fair society.

Why, in the sacred unknowable name of Dog, would you "want to hear" what a Holocaust-denying Nazi has to say? Are you completely unaware of the BNP & was this your first exposure to them? I'm in favour of having the pudendum out in the open, but if the evil bastard told me that the sky was blue, I'd probably go outside & check!

& I don't buy the "Oh yeah, I was a Nazi, got the 88 tattooed on my cock, fantasised about mass extinction of people for their colour/creed/religion/whatever, but then I woke up to see the light & now I like kittens, stamp-collecting, the Queen Mum & have married a nice Bangladeshi girl."

Also: you have obviously not watched much QT. When George Galloway was on (who is a pratt, btw), he could barely get a word in edgeways over the tumult of hecklers frothing at the mouth. QT is meant to be a populous bearpit, not a fnucking in-depth discussion programme. How are you going to have an in-depth discussion about anything in the time allotted, with the format the programme has? You're not.

I'm well aware of the BNP and who they were before they had a name changed and for your info I'm very politacally aware! In my work I meet with councillors and MPS on a weekly, if not daily basis and know exactly about party politics and the fact that many people are alligned to a political party even if that is not their true beliefs, like TORY mp's who should really be in the Labour party but because Labour are losing more and more votes they are moving to join the Tory's I know all sorts of things about politicts and take a big interest in it and that's why I would of wanted to listen to what he had to say and mainly because he's intitled to oit in a free country like England is supposed to be and although I don't like his politics I do respect him for actually coming out and being the BNP leader and going onto programes like Question time, he doesn't have to and there was enough protests about him going on there. After all there's loads of UKIP, English Democrats and Tory's that if they had some balls would be a BNP member instead, but the UKIP and Tory's especially are little career politicians that are just in politicts to make money and nothing more

[The Law]

No he isn't oxbridge educated that's cobblers. He's not an intelligent man at all. He got a 2:2 from a run of the mill university - hardly an intellectual titan is he?

Does it matter where you get your degree from really? A 2:2 in law is a 2:2 in law no matter where you study isn't it?

A high level of education does not necessarily determine 'intellgence'. Furthermore, education does not give one common sense or wisdom. I know a few individuals with first class honours in law who possess no common sense whatsoever.

[banjo]

I have the uptmost respect to manual labours.... I couldn't hack it, its a very proffesion. Plus, a mate of mine left school at 16 - became an electriction and has a far better bank balance than me - and is surely getting close to £50K a year!!! Even after a PhD - I'll never get that earning.

Problem here stu is that manual labours pay is crap for the most part, plumbers and sparks do tend to be the most lucrative trades at the moment and I do know people who've done very well out of both but others don't come close, I've got mates who are joiners, brickies, mechanics etc. but they only earn enough to pay the bills and put food on the table and they have to put some bloody mad hours in to achieve that.

When I left the army in 2006 I went working just as a labourer for a construction firm and I was working at least 60 hours a week in all sorts of crap weather for minimum pay, us labourers and tradesmen were having to work sometimes up to 14 hours a day to meet these deadlines for contracts to be completed just so the higher ups who sit on there arses all day in nice warm offices and probably haven't done a decent days work in their lives can get a christmas bonus. If the crap hit the fan and the deadline was missed we'd be the ones who'd get the grief despite working stupid hours, I got fed up with it after a year, seeing all the suits in their brand new top of the range Mercs and Beemers bragging about their month long holiday in the tropics so I fooked off.

Seems to me in this country those who do less get more, or at least that's what I saw while working there.

[Wrists]

Just a point on the 'teaching children sex' debate.

I am sure I watched a programme a while ago which covered this and compared what we do in the UK to what the Dutch do which is to teach very young children (5-6 year olds I think) a whole raft of things about sex including contraception types etc etc etc.

Guess which country has the highest % of teenage pregnancies in Europe - here's a clue not the country where the football team wear orange.

If we were a little more honest about what happens in society in this country instead of trying to always shield our young then maybe we get better results.

Oh and Griffin is a first class twat who came across as a numpty last night but the panel to be fair, Bonnie Greer aside were almost just as bad.

Homosexuals kissing in the street?? - get over it, live and let live

[jamesmcdonnell]

I sure I read in a tabloid years ago there were rumours about his sexuality in his youth!

He lived with an openly gay lecturer for a couple of years, the guy claimed that he had a homsexual relationship with Griffin.

Perhaps this may explain why he finds the sight of gay mean kissing in the street so distasteful - as his trousers tent up and a bit of sticky love piss comes out of his tiny todger.

[yiddo14]

I watched it and was massively disappointed to be honest.

The audience were terrible and there were hardly any decent questions from them. It was like watching an episode of Jerry Springer at times, with the pathetic woops and boo's when some were practically saying "well, well, er, you are a racist so ner!"
The woman who piped up at Straw saying she cringed everytime she heard him say "Afro-Caribbean" and telling him it's "African-Carribean" was a snooty little tart!
That little episode just about summed up any kind of attempt at a debate that takes place in Britain about the dreaded race issue.
Quite an intersting take on that moment-http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/

Incidently, in either term I notice a massive lack of any reference to being a Brit. I don't understand, is she a woman born to African parents who lives in the Caribbean?

The panel was just as bad. Bonnie Greer in particular, was shit.
The Tory was doing ok until she started on immigration and how Britain should want the best and brightest from other(what I take to be poorer) countries. Always felt thats slightly hypocritical. It's ok for us to take their 'best and brightest', but what about the poor sods left in that very same country!

I had no issue at all with that creature Griffin going on the show, afterall they have had IRA terrorists on there before and his party have significant support.
I wished they had asked the silly little hobbit about his parties OTHER policies, thats when the doughnut would have come undone as they have none!

[jamesmcdonnell]

What is wrong with educating children about sex? Define young.

When Griffin answered the question, he said Primary school children should not be taught about any kind of sex, not just homosexuality. Given that he said primary school children, that means children up to aged eleven, which is a child.

For crying out loud, children aged up to eleven are exactly that, CHILDREN! Let them have their childhood, its only a short period in their life. Once its gone, its gone!

On another note, I forgot ot mention this is my first reply to this topic. Griffin was asked about the religion of Islam. His answer included that women are treated as second class citicizens, that if they are a victim of rape, they are blamed for that. IF this is true, then I have to ask why would anyone follow a religion that has those kinds of things in it? That's not religion at all!

Stigmatising sex is pointless, it's a function of physiology, we teach all other aspects of biology why not sex?

Nobody is suggesting we subject five year olds to hardcore gay porn.

[Autobarn]

the man's just a cartoon villain. it gets ppl talking about him, so you don't have to think about real issues. this country's on borrowed money and borrowed time. when woolworths closes down, you know that basically we're all fvcked.

[stujones]

I have the uptmost respect to manual labours.... I couldn't hack it, its a very proffesion. Plus, a mate of mine left school at 16 - became an electriction and has a far better bank balance than me - and is surely getting close to £50K a year!!! Even after a PhD - I'll never get that earning.

Problem here stu is that manual labours pay is crap for the most part, plumbers and sparks do tend to be the most lucrative trades at the moment and I do know people who've done very well out of both but others don't come close, I've got mates who are joiners, brickies, mechanics etc. but they only earn enough to pay the bills and put food on the table and they have to put some bloody mad hours in to achieve that.

When I left the army in 2006 I went working just as a labourer for a construction firm and I was working at least 60 hours a week in all sorts of crap weather for minimum pay, us labourers and tradesmen were having to work sometimes up to 14 hours a day to meet these deadlines for contracts to be completed just so the higher ups who sit on there arses all day in nice warm offices and probably haven't done a decent days work in their lives can get a christmas bonus. If the crap hit the fan and the deadline was missed we'd be the ones who'd get the grief despite working stupid hours, I got fed up with it after a year, seeing all the suits in their brand new top of the range Mercs and Beemers bragging about their month long holiday in the tropics so I fooked off.

Seems to me in this country those who do less get more, or at least that's what I saw while working there.

I think its changing now though, as there is less competition. My old man is a carpenter, pushing 60 and has recently giving himself a 100% pay rise (haha... I'm sounding he's a corporate banker or something). He's busier now than he has been ever, cause he still cheap next to his peers and he feels there is no competition from youngsters.

[forcefraser]

Interesting discussion.

Education is no yardstick of intelligence. I have been through the whole works, A-levels, degree and MBA. However, several of my mates back home left school at 16 and now live the life of Reily, two having made fortunes during the property boom and the other recently selling his manning agency company. In many respects, they would be deemed far more "successful" than me, if money is the yardstick of success. It is probably correct to say they are more intelligent than me.

The point is that education often produces linear thinkers, in so much as the route is already mapped out. Those who think laterally, not tainted by an educational system, are the people who can see opportunities to make money and actually take them. They have social intelligence. A university educated geek, who cannot talk to and/or influence people, is unlikely to get very far in life (I`m not talking about myself here )

As for immigration, I know what it is like to be an immigrant, as I left the UK 14 years ago to live in Norway. At that time, Norway was "Ultra Pure" in it`s philosophy, so integration was not easy.

However, it must be said, and don`t take this the wrong way, I feel I made more of an effort to integrate than many of the people from Iraq, Somalia and former Yugoslavia. Maybe it was easier for me than for them, I don`t know, but some of those guys do not give a rats arse about integrating into their host society, and that`s the truth. You don`t move to another country and then sprout off in public about how much you hate the place and start making demands about banning Christmas celebrations at school, as it is offensive to their religion (as happened in both Germany and Norway a few years ago)

As far as I`m concerned, if you don`t like Santa Claus and have a problem with your new host nation celebrating Christmas with the children at school, then piss off back to where you came from and then you have no reason to complain. Clearly things can get out of hand. If I don`t like the values of Norway, I am free to leave whenever I want. If I choose to stay, then I should accept the morals, laws and norms of the country. Simple as.

In respect of two men kissing openly on a street, I have to admit that it is not my cup of tea at all. In fact if I`m honest, it disgusts me. I just don`t understand why anyone would prefer to kiss a bloke instead of a tasty bird. It makes no sense to me at all. Surely it`s a biological thing, otherwise it makes zero sense. Each to their own and entitled to their own opinions etc, but my opinion on that subject is quite clear. I don`t like it, find it hard to accept and struggle to comprehend any sound logic behind it at all.

Imagine waking upto next to a hairy bloke instead of your missus.....Jesus H Christ.

The three B`s is what it`s all about. Beer, Birds and Boxing.

[WildWaylon]

i had an afternoon in primary school when i was 10 and a 1 hour lesson in high school when i was in year 7

The only sex education I got was from older boys who told you a right load of sh1t.

[WildWaylon]

As far as homosexuals are concerned, as long as they dont make it too public, what they do behind closed doors is their business.

near enough word-for-word that was also Griffin's view on QT last night.

Its the way it should be, who wants to see men kissing and holding hands, I dont. I strongly disagree with the other things Griffin said but this is a different matter. When the law changed for homosexuals it was intended that they do what they do in private.

[Wrists]

Exactly why should people have to show affection in private???

[m1kee50]

Why should they do it in private? If it makes you uncomfortable its you with the problem isn't it? I don't hear gay people complaining about seeing straight people kiss.

100% agree

My little sister is gay... if someone tried to tell her to go and be a lesbian behind closed doors, I'd get the right hump. At the end of the day, straight couples have a 'line' that crosses from PDA to indecency, we should treat LGBT people with the same courtesy.

[forcefraser]

Why should they do it in private? If it makes you uncomfortable its you with the problem isn't it? I don't hear gay people complaining about seeing straight people kiss.

Not strictly true. Gay people know that kissing in public is likely to make many people uncomfortable and that`s why many of them do it.

It`s not illegal granted, but neither is shatting in a sandwich and eating it in front of your neighbour. Of course I am not gonna do that, as I know for cetain he aint gonna appreciate it.

[m1kee50]

Why should they do it in private? If it makes you uncomfortable its you with the problem isn't it? I don't hear gay people complaining about seeing straight people kiss.

Not strictly true. Gay people know that kissing in public is likely to make many people uncomfortable and that`s why many of them do it.

It`s not illegal granted, but neither is shatting in a sandwich and eating it in front of your neighbour. Of course I am not gonna do that, as I know for cetain he aint gonna appreciate it.

Proof?

[Asterix]

Why should they do it in private? If it makes you uncomfortable its you with the problem isn't it? I don't hear gay people complaining about seeing straight people kiss.

100% agree

My little sister is gay... if someone tried to tell her to go and be a lesbian behind closed doors, I'd get the right hump. At the end of the day, straight couples have a 'line' that crosses from PDA to indecency, we should treat LGBT people with the same courtesy.

precisely.

Agreed from me, too.

[forcefraser]

Why should they do it in private? If it makes you uncomfortable its you with the problem isn't it? I don't hear gay people complaining about seeing straight people kiss.

Not strictly true. Gay people know that kissing in public is likely to make many people uncomfortable and that`s why many of them do it.

It`s not illegal granted, but neither is shatting in a sandwich and eating it in front of your neighbour. Of course I am not gonna do that, as I know for cetain he aint gonna appreciate it.

Absolute nonsense. How many gay people do you actually know? Or gay people you'd call friends?

I know a few, one of which I would say is a friend. He is an outlandish queeny type who loves to shock people with his buftieness.

I tell him straight out what I think of it ie: Don`t appreciate it, repulses me etc. He`s a nice guy, but his antics are carried out with the intention of shocking people.

He buys into the "Gay is cool" nonsense that is rammed down people`s throats through the media. Maybe I`m too old school, but I don`t swallow that pill.

[Asterix]

I know a few, one of which I would say is a friend. He is an outlandish queeny type who loves to shock people with his buftieness.

I tell him straight out what I think of it ie: Don`t appreciate it, repulses me etc. He`s a nice guy, but his antics are carried out with the intention of shocking people.

He buys into the "Gay is cool" nonsense that is rammed down people`s throats through the media. Maybe I`m too old school, but I don`t swallow that pill.

Some people are just attention seekers, or just like to wind people up. I wouldn't say it's anything to do with being gay. At least, not from my limited experience.