24/7 episode 1 [paquiao vs Cotto]

[whiskey]

Video Here

And on to the next big fight lads... !

[gasman]

I just watched that. It is one of the best episodes that I have seen in the series. Pacman seems to be distracted with too many outside influences. Great stuff, can't wait for this fight.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Good video, thanks, Pacquaio will yet again prove his greatness in this 1

[whiskey]

I'm not so sure Pacquiao is gonna win this one.

Perhaps the crude loss to Margarito (which i genuinely believe he wore loaded gloves for) has took the shine off Cotto's achievments.

He has beaten up everyone badly he has fought. Only Mosely came close.

I suppose my point is, Pacquiao whilst continues to gamble on in the upper weight division with great success, surely must lose and I think against Cotto he loses badly.

[Rocky Balboa]

Pacquiao is the favourite, but favourites get beat. They have in the past & they will do so in the future. I understand Pacquiao being the fav, but I just think Cotto is being sold way short in this one.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

I'm not so sure Pacquiao is gonna win this one.

Perhaps the crude loss to Margarito (which i genuinely believe he wore loaded gloves for) has took the shine off Cotto's achievments.

He has beaten up everyone badly he has fought. Only Mosely came close.

I suppose my point is, Pacquiao whilst continues to gamble on in the upper weight division with great success, surely must lose and I think against Cotto he loses badly.

I think Cotto's biggest problem against Margarito was Margarito was making him fight at a pace he was uncomfortable with, not being able to hurt Margarito because of his iron chin, while Marg out threw him and pressuring him, loaded or not there wasnt any single punches that really damaged Cotto, and Cotto has been hurt and close to going against Judah/Mosley/Torres. If he can't hurt and bully Pacquaio because of the Filipinos smaller frame hes in for more of the same here imo

[martin_g91]

I've got a little feeling about this one and wouldn't be supprised if Cotto pulled it off.

Worth a little bet for sure.

[teddy007]

Brilliant, Cotto is my favorite fighter and I feel he is superior to Paquiao in nearly every department apart from speed.

[stevieb_8006]

not sure about the lack of roadwork from manny

[Deno1986]

not sure about the lack of roadwork from manny

its the bread and butter of boxing and I cant see it doing him any favours either seems as he cant bloody swim

[dondada]

Thanks for the link, Gomez.

Every time I watch them it just reminds me how brilliant that series is. Fantastic shows.

Can you imagine one of those on the likes of Benn-Eubank I?

[Goz]

Not actually watched it yet but I just have this nagging feeling that sooner or later the factors that meant most picked De La Hoya over Pacman and many Hatton over him WILL eventually mean something and be exploited. Cotto might be the man to do it although equally to do so he will have to take a zinger or two from Manny and I would worry about his ability to ship the kind of shot that saw for Hatton.

So just to confirm, some fabulous fence-sitting from Goz.

[opticald]

i must be the only one who found it boring

[forcefraser]

i must be the only one who found it boring

Par for the course mate :)

Being a mug, could you help me out and tell me who to bet on in this fight. I need fighter and method of victory, plus amount to be staked.

I thank you in advance.

[charlieb]

Roach in reference to the Hatton win - He just wasn't that good. Ouch.

Cotto's appearance is changing, I had to convince myself it was really him a couple of times in the episode.

I'm not sure which way to go this time around. There always seems to be a measure of turmoil surrounding Pac/Roach camps. Nothing new or potentially worrying there.

I want to side with Cotto, see him win, he deserves it, especially after Margarito's shameful antics. Boxing's a stark business though, happy endings don't play out too often, regardless of how deserved they might be. Fighters are never the same after a beating like the one he took from Margarito. He fought brilliantly before fading and being tuned up to the point of disfigurement. Margarito should've been banned and ideally locked up, he ended a young man's career that night imo.

Maybe I'm jaded, too accustomed to fighters' downfalls, the Clottey fight wasn't the best of gauges. Cotto sustained a nasty head clash early on which might've tainted his performance against a guy who never goes quietly. It was a brave fight to have taken in the first place and an even braver performance to win it. It didn't change my mind about Cotto.

I'm sure he'll be smarter than Hatton, who was always a southpaw's wet dream. He'll no doubt have more success than DLH, which means he'll probably land a punch. As good as he's shown to be in the past, there's always been patches where he's seemed 'chin-able' though. Torres lit him up, Bailey turned his legs to jelly, as did Judah and obviously Margarito showed him the point at which his will breaks. I just can't see Pacquiao not hurting him and if he doesn't starch him he'll be taking Cotto to a place he's been once before, dazed, shattered and faced with the prospect of getting KO'd or quitting.

The optimistic side of me sees Cotto being defensively sound enough to make his shots count, especially to the body. To my knowledge based on a sketchy memory, Manny hasn't really been walloped by a natural light-middleweight yet and even a slightly damaged Cotto is probably twice the fighter Hatton was, as well as being potentially faster and slicker, if not as durable, as a boiled down, slightly/very past it DLH. It's a fool's game though, Manny spars tough and fights tougher, he's in his absolute prime and is legitimately considered the only serious threat to Mayweather inside of middleweight. I just don't think Cotto operates at that level anymore, in his prime it would've been a life and death struggle to negate Manny's speed and power, right now I can't see past him wilting or being flattened, whichever comes first.

As always though, by the final episode of the 24/7, I'll have found enough reason and doubt in myself to see it as a 50/50 superfight.

[charlieb]

I'm not so sure Pacquiao is gonna win this one.

Perhaps the crude loss to Margarito (which i genuinely believe he wore loaded gloves for) has took the shine off Cotto's achievments.

He has beaten up everyone badly he has fought. Only Mosely came close.

I suppose my point is, Pacquiao whilst continues to gamble on in the upper weight division with great success, surely must lose and I think against Cotto he loses badly.

I think Cotto's biggest problem against Margarito was Margarito was making him fight at a pace he was uncomfortable with, not being able to hurt Margarito because of his iron chin, while Marg out threw him and pressuring him, loaded or not there wasnt any single punches that really damaged Cotto, and Cotto has been hurt and close to going against Judah/Mosley/Torres. If he can't hurt and bully Pacquaio because of the Filipinos smaller frame hes in for more of the same here imo

Not sure if I agree with that, even if Margarito didn't land anything flush (and I dont have the fight in recent enough memory to say otherwise), getting hit with knuckles bolstered with plaster is going to wear you down a lot more quickly than legally wrapped fists. I'd say the sight of Cotto's grotesquely swollen head and fairly profuse bleeding from his mouth, nose and eyes points to him being hit with a fair amount of regularity.



That fight was within Cotto's grasp and without Margarito's wraps it's pretty reasonable to assume he'd have weathered the final 2 rounds.

Edit: I agree with your prediction though, Pacquiao's speed and accuracy probably equate to twice the power of an illegally wrapped Margarito in any case. His own durabilty and punch resistance has never been tested at this weight though, that's the only quandary for me and the only glimmer of hope Cotto has.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

I'm not so sure Pacquiao is gonna win this one.

Perhaps the crude loss to Margarito (which i genuinely believe he wore loaded gloves for) has took the shine off Cotto's achievments.

He has beaten up everyone badly he has fought. Only Mosely came close.

I suppose my point is, Pacquiao whilst continues to gamble on in the upper weight division with great success, surely must lose and I think against Cotto he loses badly.

I think Cotto's biggest problem against Margarito was Margarito was making him fight at a pace he was uncomfortable with, not being able to hurt Margarito because of his iron chin, while Marg out threw him and pressuring him, loaded or not there wasnt any single punches that really damaged Cotto, and Cotto has been hurt and close to going against Judah/Mosley/Torres. If he can't hurt and bully Pacquaio because of the Filipinos smaller frame hes in for more of the same here imo

Not sure if I agree with that, even if Margarito didn't land anything flush (and I dont have the fight in recent enough memory to say otherwise), getting hit with knuckles bolstered with plaster is going to wear you down a lot more quickly than legally wrapped fists. I'd say the sight of Cotto's grotesquely swollen head and fairly profuse bleeding from his mouth, nose and eyes points to him being hit with a fair amount of regularity.



That fight was within Cotto's grasp and without Margarito's wraps it's pretty reasonable to assume he'd have weathered the final 2 rounds.

Edit: I agree with your prediction though, Pacquiao's speed and accuracy probably equate to twice the power of an illegally wrapped Margarito in any case. His own durabilty and punch resistance has never been tested at this weight though, that's the only quandary for me and the only glimmer of hope Cotto has.

Cotto got hit in the head something like 500 times though, I see nothing irregular about his injuries from such a beating. We have no proof the wraps did any more damage than a normal punch, is plaster even harder than knuckle?

[Asterix]

I'm sceptical about Cotto's new trainer. He's young and hasn't said anything of note. Cotto said his new trainer "knows his role". In other words, Cotto is the man in charge. Was Cotto good against Clottey? I haven't seen the fight yet.

Pacquiao does have distractions, but he's a model professional. He works his butt off. I've read about Pacquiao flooring Shawn Porter (big light middleweight, undefeated as a pro, National Golden Gloves champ as an amateur) twice in sparring, and Castillo was really impressed with Pacquiao's strength. It all sounds good.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

I'm sceptical about Cotto's new trainer. He's young and hasn't said anything of note. Cotto said his new trainer "knows his role". In other words, Cotto is the man in charge. Was Cotto good against Clottey? I haven't seen the fight yet.

Pacquiao does have distractions, but he's a model professional. He works his butt off. I've read about Pacquiao flooring Shawn Porter (big light middleweight, undefeated as a pro, National Golden Gloves champ as an amateur) twice in sparring, and Castillo was really impressed with Pacquiao's strength. It all sounds good.

Thought Clottey edged it, Cotto couldnt really penetrate the guard

[black panther]

Thanks for that Gomez .

Despite all the distractions I still make Pacquiao the favourite. As Asterix says, he's a model professional and these 24/7 shows always make the underdog appear like he has had a better training camp. I've been hugely impressed with Cotto ever since I saw him beat Justin Juuko in only his tenth fight. But its seems to me he's damaged goods and honestly I don't like fact that he's basically the boss of his training camp. In training the trainer should call the shots, not the fighter. Thats how a fighter can end up slacking in training and just go through the motions, instead of pushing themselves and focusing on strategies to beat a specific opponent. I've seen it time and time again where a fighter starts off hungry and has a good trainer only to get too big for their boots and suddenly they don't like being barked at by their trainer.

But from my own experiences I can say that the trainers who bark at you constantly are the best ones because they want the best out if you and actually care about you/how you fair in ring. The passive ones are just there to collect a paycheck.

It says alot that Freddy Roach is willing to kick up such a fuss over moving camp but the betterment of training, even if it could put his job in jeopardy.

[Asterix]

There's the possibility that Evangelista Cotto (Miguel's previous trainer) got Cotto fired up for each fight, because they didn't like each other and Miguel was forced to train in Puerto Rico, when he wanted to train in Florida (or wherever it was).

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Pacquaio not being able to do roadwork is a concern

[charlieb]

Cotto got hit in the head something like 500 times though, I see nothing irregular about his injuries from such a beating. We have no proof the wraps did any more damage than a normal punch, is plaster even harder than knuckle?

He didn't go as far as to remove the glove's padding, but I would've presumed (and I don't see it as a huge reach) that effectively turning his pads into plaster of paris is if anything, going to add to his power, if not, why else doctor your wraps with the stuff in the first place? He was banned for a year on the grounds of cheating, it's a no-brainer.

On top of that, I'd never viewed Margarito as a heavy puncher, he'd always punched to attrition until later on in his career. I don't see any reason to presume it was the first time Maragarito had cheated, I'd have my doubts going all the way back to his victory over cintron, personally.

Margarito landed 267 punches total to head and body during that fight, a share of which were jabs, nowhere near 500, let alone 500 to the head. Which imo is a little irrelevant if Margarito's hands were illegally wrapped from the getgo because you clearly can't take into consideration just how much more effect the punches had and how much better Cotto may have been able to stand up to them down the line.

Margarito was outclassed for two thirds of that fight, the damage he was able to sustain is what lead to Cotto's game slipping and if that damage was augmented by illegally wrapped hands then I simply can't credit his workrate for Cotto's defeat. It's a grey victory, only because Margarito's wraps weren't as thoroughly inspected as they were for the Mosley fight. Had he been found out in the Cotto fight pre or post, I seriously doubt he'd still be allowed to box.

[Rocky Balboa]

Pacquaio not being able to do roadwork is a concern

He is able to & is doing roadwork now. I do not think he missed that much running because of the severe weather conditions.

Cotto is under no illusions about the task at hand & he is preparing accordingly. There is more pressure on Pacquiao. I worry for Manny in the sense that his entourage seems to get bigger & bigger with every fight. I don't see what Koncz does to merit his role as an advisor to Pacquiao?

Its clear there has been some disruption in the Pacquiao camp between the cutman & Koncz, & there may still well be some friction.

Freddie Roach said if his man loses he will have no excuses. I hope, he sticks to that statement if that does turn out to be the scenario.

[Asterix]

Cotto got hit in the head something like 500 times though, I see nothing irregular about his injuries from such a beating. We have no proof the wraps did any more damage than a normal punch, is plaster even harder than knuckle?

He didn't go as far as to remove the glove's padding, but I would've presumed (and I don't see it as a huge reach) that effectively turning his pads into plaster of paris is if anything, going to add to his power, if not, why else doctor your wraps with the stuff in the first place? He was banned for a year on the grounds of cheating, it's a no-brainer.

On top of that, I'd never viewed Margarito as a heavy puncher, he'd always punched to attrition until later on in his career. I don't see any reason to presume it was the first time Maragarito had cheated, I'd have my doubts going all the way back to his victory over cintron, personally.

Margarito landed 267 punches total to head and body during that fight, a share of which were jabs, nowhere near 500, let alone 500 to the head. Which imo is a little irrelevant if Margarito's hands were illegally wrapped from the getgo because you clearly can't take into consideration just how much more effect the punches had and how much better Cotto may have been able to stand up to them down the line.

Margarito was outclassed for two thirds of that fight, the damage he was able to sustain is what lead to Cotto's game slipping and if that damage was augmented by illegally wrapped hands then I simply can't credit his workrate for Cotto's defeat. It's a grey victory, only because Margarito's wraps weren't as thoroughly inspected as they were for the Mosley fight. Had he been found out in the Cotto fight pre or post, I seriously doubt he'd still be allowed to box.

I remember, a while back, I posted about Margarito now being a big puncher.

I've found it: http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 8#p1411788

Antonio Margarito - 43 bouts with 27 KOs, because he didn't have many amateur bouts and turned pro at 16 years old.

Margarito's last 14 (12 of which were World title bouts) = 10 KOs