EFF

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 27 Oct 2009, 00:35

anyone know wht joe didn't go for marcianos record ? does he ever mention it?

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 27 Oct 2009, 01:03

Grimm wrote:anyone know wht joe didn't go for marcianos record ? does he ever mention it?

"Marciano's Record" really isn't one, Julio Cesar Chavez went on a longer stretch before losing, and Ricardo Lopez retired with two more wins and a Technical Draw of a guy he beat afterward.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 27 Oct 2009, 01:12

Diamond WEAPON wrote:
Grimm wrote:anyone know wht joe didn't go for marcianos record ? does he ever mention it?
"Marciano's Record" really isn't one, Julio Cesar Chavez went on a longer stretch before losing, and Ricardo Lopez retired with two more wins and a Technical Draw of a guy he beat afterward.

49-0 and winning every fight and retiring undefeated has not been surpassed.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 27 Oct 2009, 01:17

Grimm wrote:
Diamond WEAPON wrote:
Grimm wrote:anyone know wht joe didn't go for marcianos record ? does he ever mention it?
"Marciano's Record" really isn't one, Julio Cesar Chavez went on a longer stretch before losing, and Ricardo Lopez retired with two more wins and a Technical Draw of a guy he beat afterward.
49-0 and winning every fight and retiring undefeated has not been surpassed.

Chavez went 84-0 before even suffering a draw, that's much better than Marciano, retiring undefeated is so overrated it's not even funny. Marciano's record only really has meaning at HW, Chavez, Armstrong, Robinson, etc. Have all had much more impressive streaks.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 27 Oct 2009, 01:31

Diamond WEAPON wrote:
Grimm wrote:anyone know wht joe didn't go for marcianos record ? does he ever mention it?
Chavez went 84-0 before even suffering a draw, that's much better than Marciano, retiring undefeated is so overrated it's not even funny. Marciano's record only really has meaning at HW, Chavez, Armstrong, Robinson, etc. Have all had much more impressive streaks.

Thank you for not answering the question again.

I didn't ask who had an impressive record, I didn't ask whether or not Marciano was overrated nor did I ask who had a more impressive streak. This question was merely about Joe Calzaghe and why he retired while being so close to surpassing what Marciano has done. If you want to bash Marciano that's fine start a thread and do that but this is nothing to do with his greatness.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 27 Oct 2009, 01:37

sg1985 wrote:Maybe I'm wrong but wasn't it joe louis's record he was touted to be having a crack at? Moat defences?

He was close to that as well.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 27 Oct 2009, 02:38

Grimm wrote:
Diamond WEAPON wrote:
Grimm wrote:anyone know wht joe didn't go for marcianos record ? does he ever mention it?
Chavez went 84-0 before even suffering a draw, that's much better than Marciano, retiring undefeated is so overrated it's not even funny. Marciano's record only really has meaning at HW, Chavez, Armstrong, Robinson, etc. Have all had much more impressive streaks.
Thank you for not answering the question again.

I didn't ask who had an impressive record, I didn't ask whether or not Marciano was overrated nor did I ask who had a more impressive streak. This question was merely about Joe Calzaghe and why he retired while being so close to surpassing what Marciano has done. If you want to bash Marciano that's fine start a thread and do that but this is nothing to do with his greatness.

I'm not bashing Marciano at all, I'm saying people act as thought 49-0 is the end-all be-all of boxing records. Chavez could've retired at 84-0 if he wanted but didn't. Also, Joe wasn't even close to surpassing what Marciano did, only numerically. Marciano was THE Heavyweight Champ and fought and beat excellent opponents to defend that title, Joe handpicked most of his opposition during his reign as A Super Middleweight champ, not THE SMW champ til late in his career. That was my point, Joe himself knew that trying to compare himself to Marciano was bogus because 1. He's not a heavyweight, which are the only ones who should really care about such a record, 2. He knows his boxing history, and knows that other fighters have much longer streaks without a loss in other weight classes, and 3. He felt as though his own career was as well-encapsulated as he felt it could be without worrying about a possible blemish on his record due to his aging and the fact that he found it increasingly hard to make even 175. He didn't seem to want any part of Dawson nor the beasts at CW for the simple fact that like Mayweather, he was obsessed with being undefeated.

Adamj1987 · Post by **Adamj1987** » 27 Oct 2009, 04:42

there was a guy who did 96-0 i think he fought 2 guy on the same night in 2 states i cant think of his name but he did say "most guys fight 1 bum a month i fight 2 or 3 a week"

danieljenkins · Post by **danieljenkins** » 27 Oct 2009, 04:44

Grimm wrote:anyone know wht joe didn't go for marcianos record ? does he ever mention it?

its calzaghe not calaghe

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 27 Oct 2009, 10:21

danieljenkins wrote:
Grimm wrote:anyone know wht joe didn't go for marcianos record ? does he ever mention it?

its calzaghe not calaghe

Really ? How did you know whom I was speaking of?

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 27 Oct 2009, 10:32

Rocky's record is as undefeated 'heavyweight champion' . . .Joe had no record to break.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 27 Oct 2009, 11:24

dempseyfire wrote:Rocky's record is as undefeated 'heavyweight champion' . . .Joe had no record to break.

No champion has retired with more wins without a blemish on his record. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

ben geoghegan · Post by **ben geoghegan** » 27 Oct 2009, 21:30

To me retiring undefeated is overrated. Especially when there are still warm bodies out there gunning for you. The true measure of a great is how they rebound from a loss under whatever circumstance. This guy isn't noted enough to get his name spelt right in the topic. It's better to lose early and develop from it in the long run. Otherwise an undefeated fighter more often than not is being steered away from dangerous opponents and into safe harbours

bjermaine · Post by **bjermaine** » 27 Oct 2009, 21:35

Grimm wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:Rocky's record is as undefeated 'heavyweight champion' . . .Joe had no record to break.
No champion has retired with more wins without a blemish on his record. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

my 1,000th post

believe me, joe had no record to break. rocky was "THE" heavyweight champion of the world. joe was the wbo super middleweight champ for most of career. the wbo belt at the time he won it was meaningless. joe won a newly made belt in a newly made weight class.

the other shit on here about calzaghe challenging louis' record of defenses wanted to make me puke. the same went for dariusz m. and his wbo light heavy belt. just because you have a belt doesn't mean you're "THE" champ, or even a great fighter for that matter.

bjermaine · Post by **bjermaine** » 27 Oct 2009, 21:39

ben geoghegan wrote:To me retiring undefeated is overrated. Especially when there are still warm bodies out there gunning for you. The true measure of a great is how they rebound from a loss under whatever circumstance. This guy isn't noted enough to get his name spelt right in the topic. It's better to lose early and develop from it in the long run. Otherwise an undefeated fighter more often than not is being steered away from dangerous opponents and into safe harbours

Classic Post!

couldn't agree more.

bjermaine · Post by **bjermaine** » 27 Oct 2009, 21:42

sg1985 wrote: Newly made? How so? I seem to remember Nigel benn fighting one Doug DeWitt for the wbo belt in 1990.

newly made compared to the history of the sport. you won't see langford vs ketchel for the wbo 168 lb title in the history books.

bjermaine · Post by **bjermaine** » 27 Oct 2009, 22:36

sg1985 wrote: The thing is 21 years old, compared to the some of the belts flying about these days its quite old. I don't really see the stigma with the WBO no more than any of the others anyway, some great fighters have held that title.

you can't judge the wbo belt by the handful of good/great fighters that have held it. it needs to be judged by the amount sub-par fighters who held the title. the list is almost endless.

BroughtonRulesRefuge · Post by **BroughtonRulesRefuge** » 28 Oct 2009, 06:21

bjermaine wrote:the other poop on here about calzaghe challenging louis' record of defenses wanted to make me puke. the same went for dariusz m. and his wbo light heavy belt. just because you have a belt doesn't mean you're "THE" champ, or even a great fighter for that matter.

- The dimness of your bulb an easy match for the thread originator who still can't understand he misspelled Joe's very well known name.

Dariusz was the "lineal" LH champ who was stripped of the belts that Jones finally ended up with. Rocky never held a record until modern dimbulbs de-evolved with a need to cast their tiny flashlights on a subject they could never understand.

Had Oscar, Tito and Pavlik not gone for the easier Mr. Pops, instead challenging Joe, the resulting criticisms would rival that which Lacy received, "Oh, Joe beat them so they must not be any good."

Rocky faced the same criticisms as Joe and Dariusz, being unable to carry the jockstraps of Dempsey and Louis, and later, the infamous Mr. Larry.

Fighters can only be what they are in their generation which is considerably greater than all the cobbled intellects of the world's dimbulbs combined.

BroughtonRulesRefuge · Post by **BroughtonRulesRefuge** » 28 Oct 2009, 06:40

bjermaine wrote:
sg1985 wrote: The thing is 21 years old, compared to the some of the belts flying about these days its quite old. I don't really see the stigma with the WBO no more than any of the others anyway, some great fighters have held that title.
you can't judge the wbo belt by the handful of good/great fighters that have held it. it needs to be judged by the amount sub-par fighters who held the title. the list is almost endless.

- Marvin Camel was the first IBF belt holder in 83, making that belt 26 yrs old.

Mr. Larry tried to get that belt, but the IBF noobs wouldn't sanction the Marvis fight for him and Mr. Larry had to wait for a whole year ticking off his list of weak washerwomen before they found one big and strong enough so as not to be laughed at, aka James Smith whom they slapped a "Bonecrusher" moniker on to make him more fearsome like some kind of WWE heel.

Nice shout for Mr. Larry down memory lane. Ahhhhh, but for the good old days when the IBF beltholder was The Man fighting The Best the IBF could throw at him.......

8)

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 28 Oct 2009, 06:46

In Marciano's day there was one belt and in Calzaghe's day there were 4 main belts. Therefore, in order for Calzag to break Marciano's record and if my multiplication skills are functioning correctly Clazge would have had to have attained a record of 196 wins and no losses to match it. And Clagz would have been about 81 years of age by this point

Adamj1987 · Post by **Adamj1987** » 28 Oct 2009, 06:48

bollox wrote:In Marciano's day there was one belt and in Calzaghe's day there were 4 main belts. Therefore, in order for Calzag to break Marciano's record and if my multiplication skills are functioning correctly Clazge would have had to have attained a record of 196 wins and no losses to match it. And Clagz would have been about 81 years of age by this point

or just get to 49-0 and have all 4 belts deffended 6 times like rocky did

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 28 Oct 2009, 06:52

6 X 4 = 24

D

bjermaine · Post by **bjermaine** » 28 Oct 2009, 21:26

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: Dariusz was the "lineal" LH champ who was stripped of the belts that Jones finally ended up with. Rocky never held a record until modern dimbulbs de-evolved with a need to cast their tiny flashlights on a subject they could never understand.

Had Oscar, Tito and Pavlik not gone for the easier Mr. Pops, instead challenging Joe, the resulting criticisms would rival that which Lacy received, "Oh, Joe beat them so they must not be any good."

dariusz's title lineage was started from hill-maske I. this is comical seeing how roy jones held a belt in the division at this time of this fight. also when calzaghe "won" the ring light heavy title vs bhop i was reading in a number of places of how joe was now the "linear" light heavy champ. who's the real linear champ?? who cares. if you go by dariusz's lineage that means zsolt eredi is the champ.

if eredi wants in the hall of fame he'll have to stand behind me in the ticket line for entrance. i'm all for him making as much money as possible but he's a disgrace to the true greats of the game a la calzaghe.

your 2nd comment on here almost beats the stupidity of your baseball knowledge. tito, oscar and pavlik all fought bhop because he would actually fight them. plus during the time they could have realistically fought joe, calzaghe was considered as big a joke as eredi. joe was as protected as any fighter in history. ask glen johnson.

BroughtonRulesRefuge · Post by **BroughtonRulesRefuge** » 29 Oct 2009, 07:13

bjermaine wrote:
BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: Dariusz was the "lineal" LH champ who was stripped of the belts that Jones finally ended up with. Rocky never held a record until modern dimbulbs de-evolved with a need to cast their tiny flashlights on a subject they could never understand.

Had Oscar, Tito and Pavlik not gone for the easier Mr. Pops, instead challenging Joe, the resulting criticisms would rival that which Lacy received, "Oh, Joe beat them so they must not be any good."
dariusz's title lineage was started from hill-maske I. this is comical seeing how roy jones held a belt in the division at this time of this fight. also when calzaghe "won" the ring light heavy title vs bhop i was reading in a number of places of how joe was now the "linear" light heavy champ. who's the real linear champ?? who cares. if you go by dariusz's lineage that means zsolt eredi is the champ. if eredi wants in the hall of fame he'll have to stand behind me in the ticket line for entrance. i'm all for him making as much money as possible but he's a disgrace to the true greats of the game a la calzaghe.

your 2nd comment on here almost beats the stupidity of your baseball knowledge. tito, oscar and pavlik all fought bhop because he would actually fight them. plus during the time they could have realistically fought joe, calzaghe was considered as big a joke as eredi. joe was as protected as any fighter in history. ask glen johnson.

- On my worst day at the office I could never be so underwhelming as you on your best day. Go start your baseball thread in the other sports section and I'll be happy to knock you into your mustarded hotdog and blast you out of the park through your onion rings.

Don't keep the lineal title, Sherlock, I just report on it. Seeing as Dariusz was an undefeated LH/cruiser title holder years before Roy crept up to the LH division, as typical for you, your only point is on top of your noggin.

Beating ancient McCallum for an interim LH bauble don't make Roy "The Man" when Hill and Dariusz had been in with some quality LHs that Roy wouldn't fight had they come to Pensacola calling out Roy on his doorstep.

Dariusz's unification of the belts has nothing to do with any claims Joe had on the "lineal" title. A lineal title doesn't confer greatness or IBHOF induction any more than skipping rope does, Skippy. Erdei is indeed considered the Lineal LH champ just as Leon, Briggs, and host of other non greats were considered lineal champs in their divisions.

As to "tito, oscar and pavlik all fought bhop because he would actually fight them" what all 4 of those names have in common was that they wouldn't fight Joe. One can excuse Tito and Oscar for being too itty-bitty and past prime to fight Joe, but Mr. Pops paid a 2 million judgement to Dibella for backing out of the Calzaghe fight Lou had lined up for Pops after Tito had been disposed of.

After Kelly's huge KO of Taylor, Joe invited Kelly on an all expenses paid excursion to Wales for a ringside VIP view of his dismantling of the undefeated Kessler in hopes of luring a Fresh HOT off the FIRE, prime American star into a superfight, to no avail as it turned out. Instead Joe finally baited the longtime "lineal" and Ring champ Mr. Pops into the ring, only to watch him quit like a dog when a fight started to break out, so please do go hire out Glenncoffe Johnson to protect that point you made on your noggin.

bjermaine · Post by **bjermaine** » 29 Oct 2009, 20:38

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: - On my worst day at the office I could never be so underwhelming as you on your best day. Go start your baseball thread in the other sports section and I'll be happy to knock you into your mustarded hotdog and blast you out of the park through your onion rings.

Beating ancient McCallum for an interim LH bauble don't make Roy "The Man" when Hill and Dariusz had been in with some quality LHs that Roy wouldn't fight had they come to Pensacola calling out Roy on his doorstep.

After Kelly's huge KO of Taylor, Joe invited Kelly on an all expenses paid excursion to Wales for a ringside VIP view of his dismantling of the undefeated Kessler in hopes of luring a Fresh HOT off the FIRE, prime American star into a superfight, to no avail as it turned out. Instead Joe finally baited the longtime "lineal" and Ring champ Mr. Pops into the ring, only to watch him quit like a dog when a fight started to break out, so please do go hire out Glenncoffe Johnson to protect that point you made on your noggin.

mustarded?? check that in the dictionary. you're making quite the name for yourself on these boards as granberry's apprentice.

i never said roy was the man at 175 in '96. he had one of the belts and was the best pound for pound fighter in the world at that time. crowning a linear champ from hill vs maske makes no sense when jones is in the division.

not sure how the 43 yr old bhop "quit like a dog" when a lot of people thought he won the fight. i was there and had joe winning by 3 pts but he looked like shit. pretty sure joe wasn't interested in pavlik when he had just fought manfredo the fight before. the pride of wales was always looking to fight the best!

lastly, you saying that dariusz had been in with quality LHs is hilarious.

EFF

EFF

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