Why Muhammad Ali Is The Greatest

[ThatOne]

He beat three other top ten heavywights and nine Hall Of Famers. Who else has that kind of resume?

He could dance. He could fight flat footed. And he could take a punch. His most impressive wins came after his prime; the wins against Frazier and Foreman.

Prime Ali (pre exile) was 29-0. Post-Prime Ali was 20-2 with avenged losses against Frazier and Norton. Shot Ali (after the Thrilla) was 6-3 with losses against Spinks, Berbick, and Holmes.

It's to his credit that all the "gift decisions" his detractors point to were when he was a young pup (Doug Jones) or past it (Young ,the third Norton fight and Shavers )though I dispute Norton 111 and Shavers were gifts. The heavyweight title hadn't changed hands via decision in thirty one years at the time of the third Norton fight and Norton didn't do enough to change that. Ali just beat Shavers.

[Rocky Balboa]

Depends on what your definition of the greatest is?

Ali is not the best P4P boxer in history, no way. I'm sorry if some do not like it, but he is not. He has even half admitted to this himself in the past when talking about Ray Robinson.

Robinson is best P4P fighter in history, followed by Henry Armstrong. I think its debateable that Ali is even the best HW ever.

However, imo, Ali is the greatest sports personality in history. He transcended sports. He put it on the map, so to speak!

[Goodnight, Irene]

I'm thinking he meant the best Heavyweight, & yes, it's a debate.

[Mr E]

He beat three other top ten heavywights and nine Hall Of Famers. Who else has that kind of resume?

He could dance. He could fight flat footed. And he could take a punch. His most impressive wins came after his prime; the wins against Frazier and Foreman.

Prime Ali (pre exile) was 29-0. Post-Prime Ali was 20-2 with avenged losses against Frazier and Norton. Shot Ali (after the Thrilla) was 6-3 with losses against Spinks, Berbick, and Holmes.

It's to his credit that all the "gift decisions" his detractors point to were when he was a young pup (Doug Jones) or past it (Young ,the third Norton fight and Shavers )though I dispute Norton 111 and Shavers were gifts. The heavyweight title hadn't changed hands via decision in thirty one years at the time of the third Norton fight and Norton didn't do enough to change that. Ali just beat Shavers.

I, too, consider Ali to have been the greatest heavyweight of all-time. Nevertheless, I think there is plenty about which to debate.

[jezzamundo]

I think Ali was lucky to have got the results he got against Norton and Shavers, but he definitely beat Doug Jones.

[turn2stone]

not that im a big ali fan, but it hink you screwed him of a victory somewhere. likely at the "shot" portion of his career. for my taste, ali had too many stinkers where he coasted or was out hustled. (norton 1,2 ,3, frazier 2, spinks 1&2, evangelista, young, bugner 1&2....even the lyle fight.....i could go on). strangely i dont have shavers winning his fight with ali. i found the bout captivating, as shavers didn't run out of gas and landed some monsterous bombs on ali's (great) chin. and the last 10 seconds of the 15th was a testiment to ali's will as he seriously wobbled the still very dangerous shavers. i still have a copy of the Sports Illustrated which had a cover of Shavers belting ALi, but the inside story had a shot of the last 10 seconds with the title "Once more to the well".

[ThatOne]

not that im a big ali fan, but it hink you screwed him of a victory somewhere. likely at the "shot" portion of his career. for my taste, ali had too many stinkers where he coasted or was out hustled. (norton 1,2 ,3, frazier 2, spinks 1&2, evangelista, young, bugner 1&2....even the lyle fight.....i could go on). strangely i dont have shavers winning his fight with ali. i found the bout captivating, as shavers didn't run out of gas and landed some monsterous bombs on ali's (great) chin. and the last 10 seconds of the 15th was a testiment to ali's will as he seriously wobbled the still very dangerous shavers. i still have a copy of the Sports Illustrated which had a cover of Shavers belting ALi, but the inside story had a shot of the last 10 seconds with the title "Once more to the well".

I have seen that criticism pop up. Yeah, Ali had some stinkers where he did just enough to win but that's different than a loss; the Bugner fights, Evangelista, Rudi Lubbers, and some others I forgot. Even if you call Young and Norton lll a gift I think he clearly won the second fight with Norton . As for the second Frazier fight Ali clearly won. In fact that strategy would have served him well in the first fight; dance and when Frazier gets in close smother him with your greater size and strength. It was up to the ref to break the clinches or Frazier being the shorter man to just slip out of them.

He did lose the first Spinks fight but clearly won the second.

[turn2stone]

but the spinks loss still typified alot of what was wrong with how Ali was judged. it was a split decision ! Art Lurie was either corrupt, blind or in love with Ali. My gut says he was in love. and the other 2 dummies judging the fight weren't much better.

[The Great John L]

but the spinks loss still typified alot of what was wrong with how Ali was judged. it was a split decision ! Art Lurie was either corrupt, blind or in love with Ali. My gut says he was in love. and the other 2 dummies judging the fight weren't much better.

Agreed. Ali-Spinks I wasn't even close. Spinks beat the hell out of the old man.

The first Norton fight wasn't really close either.

[kikibalt]

Imho, Joe Louis was the "Greatest" HW.

[granberry]

[BoxBuzz]

granberry, this was the beginning of the next 26 rounds between these guys. So it starts from where he gets up and then endures into the final chapter....where he ultimately perserveres and his opponent is defeated, no longer able to continue the fight.

And that's the heart, and the rest of the story.

[ThatOne]

granberry, this was the beginning of the next 26 rounds between these guys. So it starts from where he gets up and then endures into the final chapter....where he ultimately perserveres and his opponent is defeated, no longer able to continue the fight.

And that's the heart, and the rest of the story.

It's not about how many times you got knocked down but how many times you get back up.

[The Great John L]

It's not about how many times you got knocked down but how many times you get back up.

If my memory is correct, Joe got up all 6 times in Kingston.

[ThatOne]

It's not about how many times you got knocked down but how many times you get back up.

If my memory is correct, Joe got up all 6 times in Kingston.

I believe the fight was stopped in the second round. I give Joe a lot of credit for gettingup . I also give Ali credit for getting up, instantaneously, and finishing the round, and going on to win the re-match and rubbermatch.

[granberry]

I also give Ali credit for getting up, instantaneously, and finishing the round, and going on to win the re-match and rubbermatch.

'instantaneously'

LOL

Give the Ali shills a few more years and they'll be claiming Ali was never knocked down.

The stench in the air around a fifth rate car salesmen surrounds your posts on your Ali.

[ThatOne]

.

I also give Ali credit for getting up, instantaneously, and finishing the round, and going on to win the re-match and rubbermatch.

'instantaneously'

LOL

Give the Ali shills a few more years and they'll be claiming Ali was never knocked down.

The stench in the air around a fifth rate car salesmen surrounds your posts on your Ali.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ3aUmSBSbY

Go the twenty eight second mark Ali does get up instantaneously.
.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

-John Adams

.

[Grimm]

I also give Ali credit for getting up, instantaneously, and finishing the round, and going on to win the re-match and rubbermatch.

'instantaneously'

LOL

Give the Ali shills a few more years and they'll be claiming Ali was never knocked down.

The stench in the air around a fifth rate car salesmen surrounds your posts on your Ali.

You never seen that fight. You probably just read about it as you do with all of your other assumptions.

[Collins2000]

I also give Ali credit for getting up, instantaneously, and finishing the round, and going on to win the re-match and rubbermatch.

'instantaneously'

LOL

Give the Ali shills a few more years and they'll be claiming Ali was never knocked down.

The stench in the air around a fifth rate car salesmen surrounds your posts on your Ali.

You never seen that fight. You probably just read about it as you do with all of your other assumptions.

granberry gets his 'knowledge' about boxing from reading Bert Sugar articles.

[Controversial]

He beat three other top ten heavywights and nine Hall Of Famers. Who else has that kind of resume?

He could dance. He could fight flat footed. And he could take a punch. His most impressive wins came after his prime; the wins against Frazier and Foreman.

Prime Ali (pre exile) was 29-0. Post-Prime Ali was 20-2 with avenged losses against Frazier and Norton. Shot Ali (after the Thrilla) was 6-3 with losses against Spinks, Berbick, and Holmes.

It's to his credit that all the "gift decisions" his detractors point to were when he was a young pup (Doug Jones) or past it (Young ,the third Norton fight and Shavers )though I dispute Norton 111 and Shavers were gifts. The heavyweight title hadn't changed hands via decision in thirty one years at the time of the third Norton fight and Norton didn't do enough to change that. Ali just beat Shavers.

Certainly not the greatest fighter ever, maybe not even the greatest heavyweight. He looked awful in some fights and got some dubious decisions in his career. But he didn't duck anyone and fought in the greatest heavyweight era ever, beating all the top fighters. And that was with him missing 3 years when he was aged 25-28, years you could argue he would be at his physical peak. You cannot fail to have him in your top 3 heavyweights of all time, even the Ali haters would have a hard time naming 3 better heavyweights than him.

He had a huge personality and was loved by many, to he Ali fans he will always be the greatest no matter what argument you put up against it.

[ThatOne]

He beat three other top ten heavywights and nine Hall Of Famers. Who else has that kind of resume?

He could dance. He could fight flat footed. And he could take a punch. His most impressive wins came after his prime; the wins against Frazier and Foreman.

Prime Ali (pre exile) was 29-0. Post-Prime Ali was 20-2 with avenged losses against Frazier and Norton. Shot Ali (after the Thrilla) was 6-3 with losses against Spinks, Berbick, and Holmes.

It's to his credit that all the "gift decisions" his detractors point to were when he was a young pup (Doug Jones) or past it (Young ,the third Norton fight and Shavers )though I dispute Norton 111 and Shavers were gifts. The heavyweight title hadn't changed hands via decision in thirty one years at the time of the third Norton fight and Norton didn't do enough to change that. Ali just beat Shavers.

Certainly not the greatest fighter ever, maybe not even the greatest heavyweight. He looked awful in some fights and got some dubious decisions in his career. But he didn't duck anyone and fought in the greatest heavyweight era ever, beating all the top fighters. And that was with him missing 3 years when he was aged 25-28, years you could argue he would be at his physical peak. You cannot fail to have him in your top 3 heavyweights of all time, even the Ali haters would have a hard time naming 3 better heavyweights than him.

He had a huge personality and was loved by many, to he Ali fans he will always be the greatest no matter what argument you put up against it.

There are posters in this thread who don't think he's a top ten hw

[Collins2000]

He beat three other top ten heavywights and nine Hall Of Famers. Who else has that kind of resume?

He could dance. He could fight flat footed. And he could take a punch. His most impressive wins came after his prime; the wins against Frazier and Foreman.

Prime Ali (pre exile) was 29-0. Post-Prime Ali was 20-2 with avenged losses against Frazier and Norton. Shot Ali (after the Thrilla) was 6-3 with losses against Spinks, Berbick, and Holmes.

It's to his credit that all the "gift decisions" his detractors point to were when he was a young pup (Doug Jones) or past it (Young ,the third Norton fight and Shavers )though I dispute Norton 111 and Shavers were gifts. The heavyweight title hadn't changed hands via decision in thirty one years at the time of the third Norton fight and Norton didn't do enough to change that. Ali just beat Shavers.

Certainly not the greatest fighter ever, maybe not even the greatest heavyweight. He looked awful in some fights and got some dubious decisions in his career. But he didn't duck anyone and fought in the greatest heavyweight era ever, beating all the top fighters. And that was with him missing 3 years when he was aged 25-28, years you could argue he would be at his physical peak. You cannot fail to have him in your top 3 heavyweights of all time, even the Ali haters would have a hard time naming 3 better heavyweights than him.

He had a huge personality and was loved by many, to he Ali fans he will always be the greatest no matter what argument you put up against it.

There are posters in this thread who don't think he's a top ten hw

Then they know nothing about boxing.

Or are just haters.

Or both (e.g granberry and BRR)

[BoxBuzz]

To truly make the case of Ali not being in the top HW's you really have to know something about boxing, AND be a hater. You need to build credibility in areas that clearly show that you do know about the sport and then insist that Ali was an anomaly A man who was just lucky, purchased, overly promoted, (catching the wave so to speak) and then given his career as a gift from the public at large, the media, the judges, and his peers.

However the same must be done to take Holmes, Dempsey,Louis, and a few others lightly as well.

It's easy to see the symptoms, and most of us recognize such judgment as a borderline disease. Folks who truly understand this sport recognize his greatness even if only begrudgingly and usually rate him no lower than somewhere in the middle of the top ten.

[Collins2000]

To truly make the case of Ali not being in the top HW's you really have to know something about boxing, AND be a hater. You need to build credibility in areas that clearly show that you do know about the sport and then insist that Ali was an anomaly A man who was just lucky, purchased, overly promoted, (catching the wave so to speak) and then given his career as a gift from the public at large, the media, the judges, and his peers.

However the same must be done to take Holmes, Dempsey,Louis, and a few others lightly as well.

It's easy to see the symptoms, and most of us recognize such judgment as a borderline disease. Folks who truly understand this sport recognize his greatness even if only begrudgingly and usually rate him no lower than somewhere in the middle of the top ten.

Has crankberry ever posted his top 5 heavyweights?

I recall BRR posted his a while back.

It was something like:

Vitali Klitschko
Wladimir Klitschko
Frans Botha
Oliver Hardy
John "The Wad" Holmes

[Goodnight, Irene]

To truly make the case of Ali not being in the top HW's you really have to know something about boxing, AND be a hater. You need to build credibility in areas that clearly show that you do know about the sport and then insist that Ali was an anomaly A man who was just lucky, purchased, overly promoted, (catching the wave so to speak) and then given his career as a gift from the public at large, the media, the judges, and his peers.

However the same must be done to take Holmes, Dempsey,Louis, and a few others lightly as well.

It's easy to see the symptoms, and most of us recognize such judgment as a borderline disease. Folks who truly understand this sport recognize his greatness even if only begrudgingly and usually rate him no lower than somewhere in the middle of the top ten.

You also need to do all of that whilst expertly wielding a pitchfork to ward off a frothing Collins...I'm still convinced the, '2000' in his alias is a reference to his birth year.