Sven Ottke in retirement

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 21 Dec 2004, 08:57

Nice article on secondsout.com

i like his feelings for the WBO. And he's honest enough about his style and career.

Bubi i await your comments.

http://www.secondsout.com/World/news.cf ... 5&cs=15205

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:20

I care for the WBO like I care for a shit. Calzaghe was a challenger, in my eyes. A good challenger but a challenger and maybe he thinks maybe (he was) not."

Ha ha this bit made me laugh, particuarly the WBO part...my thoughts entirely

Svenni...Svenni....

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:21

topper123 wrote:Nice article on secondsout.com

i like his feelings for the WBO. And he's honest enough about his style and career.

Bubi i await your comments.

http://www.secondsout.com/World/news.cf ... 5&cs=15205

things i always said about him. but like a lt of germans i never was a fan of him because of his style. but the mass here likes such styles. Watch Henri Maske. His style could be compared.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:25

Bubi, Does much American boxing get shown in Germany?

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:25

steve689 wrote:
I care for the WBO like I care for a shit. Calzaghe was a challenger, in my eyes. A good challenger but a challenger and maybe he thinks maybe (he was) not."
Ha ha this bit made me laugh, particuarly the WBO part...my thoughts entirely Svenni...Svenni....

why? this what you guys over the WBO-belt say, too, especially when some german boxers hold the WBO-belt.........

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:31

Read carefully, I was agreeing with Ottke Bubi, the WBO means shit

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:32

topper123 wrote:Bubi, Does much American boxing get shown in Germany?

Live shows only at Premiere (Pay-TV). Tyson-Williams and Wladi-Williamson were Premiere PayPerView-fights. From the Vitali-fight on the Klitschko-fights are again on free-tv (ARD) All Sauerland-, Universum- and SES-fights are shown on free-tv, no matter where they happen.

Eurosport, DSF and Premiere show a lot of US-fights that are not live. On Premiere they show english fights as well, especially Hatton and Calzaghe.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:35

steve689 wrote:Read carefully, I was agreeing with Ottke Bubi, the WBO means shit

oops, sorry dude, you are right

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:37

I hear you lot get it good on German TV for Boxing...i remember when i was in Vegas for Hopkins-DLH there was a tall blonde guy doing a TV bit for the German channel in the MGM Grand and there i was waving behind him

I became a famous face in Germany for five minutes back there

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:41

steve689 wrote:I hear you lot get it good on German TV for Boxing...i remember when i was in Vegas for Hopkins-DLH there was a tall blonde guy doing a TV bit for the German channel in the MGM Grand and there i was waving behind him I became a famous face in Germany for five minutes back there

it must be the announcer of Premiere. they showed the fight. i didn´t watch the live-broadcast....unfortunately

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:45

Ottke fought at 3 olympics as well, strange that such a good defensive boxer as a pro never got to a medal. you would have thought his style was suited to the amatuers

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:46

Yeah all the background and the equipment was in red and yellow, the poor guy was dying not to laugh :P

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:47

Interesting interview. Its nice to see Ottke being realistic about himself and his achievements and his, er, style. But he doesnt have much choice really. The book on Ottke is written and he knows his place in history will be within a narrow box of achievement and his recognition outside Germany will always be limited.

I do think he overdoes the skill thing though - claiming that the Germans appreciated his style because they like to see skill whereas the rest of us like to see people getting whacked about. Its pretty damn patronising and not true. True boxing fans recognise great skill when they see it and skill and defensive ability is not just about nicking rounds. We appreciate Cotto as much for his ability to keep his chin out of trouble and control the pace of his fights as much as his offensive flurries. Ottke had a much more one dimensional approach - especially in his later years, when he reduced the spectacle to almost zero. Lets face it, even judged on his ability to entertain by being elusive, he was no Pernell Whitaker.

He fought in the style that was best suited to him winning but he was rarely dominant - not in any single fight, hardly in any single round. And dominance counts when you think about greatness.

Props to him for his doggedness and being the home fighter helps if you always have to go to the cards. He retired unbeaten and never fought on the road. Glen Johnson has travelled everywhere and got beaten a stack of times. I know who will go down in history as the better fighter.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 21 Dec 2004, 09:50

don't call it a comeback wrote:Interesting interview. Its nice to see Ottke being realistic about himself and his achievements and his, er, style. But he doesnt have much choice really. The book on Ottke is written and he knows his place in history will be within a narrow box of achievement and his recognition outside Germany will always be limited.

I do think he overdoes the skill thing though - claiming that the Germans appreciated his style because they like to see skill whereas the rest of us like to see people getting whacked about. Its pretty damn patronising and not true. True boxing fans recognise great skill when they see it and skill and defensive ability is not just about nicking rounds. We appreciate Cotto as much for his ability to keep his chin out of trouble and control the pace of his fights as much as his offensive flurries. Ottke had a much more one dimensional approach - especially in his later years, when he reduced the spectacle to almost zero. Lets face it, even judged on his ability to entertain by being elusive, he was no Pernell Whitaker.

He fought in the style that was best suited to him winning but he was rarely dominant - not in any single fight, hardly in any single round. And dominance counts when you think about greatness.

Props to him for his doggedness and being the home fighter helps if you always have to go to the cards. He retired unbeaten and never fought on the road. Glen Johnson has travelled everywhere and got beaten a stack of times. I know who will go down in history as the better fighter.

Excellent post

Couldn't agree more with all the points. A+

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 21 Dec 2004, 10:01

don't call it a comeback wrote:Interesting interview. Its nice to see Ottke being realistic about himself and his achievements and his, er, style. But he doesnt have much choice really. The book on Ottke is written and he knows his place in history will be within a narrow box of achievement and his recognition outside Germany will always be limited.

I do think he overdoes the skill thing though - claiming that the Germans appreciated his style because they like to see skill whereas the rest of us like to see people getting whacked about. Its pretty damn patronising and not true. True boxing fans recognise great skill when they see it and skill and defensive ability is not just about nicking rounds. We appreciate Cotto as much for his ability to keep his chin out of trouble and control the pace of his fights as much as his offensive flurries. Ottke had a much more one dimensional approach - especially in his later years, when he reduced the spectacle to almost zero. Lets face it, even judged on his ability to entertain by being elusive, he was no Pernell Whitaker.

He fought in the style that was best suited to him winning but he was rarely dominant - not in any single fight, hardly in any single round. And dominance counts when you think about greatness.

Props to him for his doggedness and being the home fighter helps if you always have to go to the cards. He retired unbeaten and never fought on the road. Glen Johnson has travelled everywhere and got beaten a stack of times. I know who will go down in history as the better fighter.

Yeah, that is a pretty fair assessment. Although I'm pretty sure he did go on the road, once at least. He took a fight in Austria I think.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 21 Dec 2004, 10:05

Are you sure he didn't just take a wrong turn during his roadwork

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 21 Dec 2004, 10:08

Maybe. Everyone needs a holiday I suppose.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 21 Dec 2004, 10:14

don't call it a comeback wrote:Interesting interview. Its nice to see Ottke being realistic about himself and his achievements and his, er, style. But he doesnt have much choice really. The book on Ottke is written and he knows his place in history will be within a narrow box of achievement and his recognition outside Germany will always be limited.

I do think he overdoes the skill thing though - claiming that the Germans appreciated his style because they like to see skill whereas the rest of us like to see people getting whacked about. Its pretty damn patronising and not true. True boxing fans recognise great skill when they see it and skill and defensive ability is not just about nicking rounds. We appreciate Cotto as much for his ability to keep his chin out of trouble and control the pace of his fights as much as his offensive flurries. Ottke had a much more one dimensional approach - especially in his later years, when he reduced the spectacle to almost zero. Lets face it, even judged on his ability to entertain by being elusive, he was no Pernell Whitaker.

He fought in the style that was best suited to him winning but he was rarely dominant - not in any single fight, hardly in any single round. And dominance counts when you think about greatness.

Props to him for his doggedness and being the home fighter helps if you always have to go to the cards. He retired unbeaten and never fought on the road. Glen Johnson has travelled everywhere and got beaten a stack of times. I know who will go down in history as the better fighter.

bullshit. nobody would say: "Damon Hill is the better Formula1-driver than M.Schumacher because of the driving-style". but here you compare the success of boxers with theit style. nonsens. Johnson is a good boxer. Ottke is one of the best in his weight class of all times. again, not because of his style. but this is, according to his record, irrelevant.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 21 Dec 2004, 10:19

I must say early on in his career Ottke was decent but as his legs slowed and his reflexes dimished he became a one dimensional frustrating fighter, always doing just enough in a round or often not enough at all but staying out of the way knowing he would win the round regardless.

I cannot question his opposition level though and i think he fought better fighters than Calzaghe has done, plus most of Calzaghe's opponents are Ottke's chewed meat anyway, the one thing i disliked about Ottke was his bad sportsmanship, constantly complaining annd moaning to the ref, none existant low blows, rabbit punches or kidney shots...it was unprofessional and uncalled for.

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 21 Dec 2004, 10:36

Ottke would make a great politician. saturday he was asked how he felt Beyer's chanches will be against Green. A politician that have spent his/her whole life in politics couldnt have avoided answering the question better than Ottke.

JC · Post by JC » 21 Dec 2004, 10:46

Just out of interest did anyone ever bet on Ottke? I imagine the odds on him winning by points must have been a joke.

Priff · Post by **Priff** » 21 Dec 2004, 10:56

BubiScholz wrote:
don't call it a comeback wrote:Interesting interview. Its nice to see Ottke being realistic about himself and his achievements and his, er, style. But he doesnt have much choice really. The book on Ottke is written and he knows his place in history will be within a narrow box of achievement and his recognition outside Germany will always be limited.

I do think he overdoes the skill thing though - claiming that the Germans appreciated his style because they like to see skill whereas the rest of us like to see people getting whacked about. Its pretty damn patronising and not true. True boxing fans recognise great skill when they see it and skill and defensive ability is not just about nicking rounds. We appreciate Cotto as much for his ability to keep his chin out of trouble and control the pace of his fights as much as his offensive flurries. Ottke had a much more one dimensional approach - especially in his later years, when he reduced the spectacle to almost zero. Lets face it, even judged on his ability to entertain by being elusive, he was no Pernell Whitaker.

He fought in the style that was best suited to him winning but he was rarely dominant - not in any single fight, hardly in any single round. And dominance counts when you think about greatness.

Props to him for his doggedness and being the home fighter helps if you always have to go to the cards. He retired unbeaten and never fought on the road. Glen Johnson has travelled everywhere and got beaten a stack of times. I know who will go down in history as the better fighter.
bullshit. nobody would say: "Damon Hill is the better Formula1-driver than M.Schumacher because of the driving-style". but here you compare the success of boxers with theit style. nonsens. Johnson is a good boxer. Ottke is one of the best in his weight class of all times. again, not because of his style. but this is, according to his record, irrelevant.

This post has no good points in it.

If Audley Harrisson continues to fight blown up cruiser weights in England for the rest of his career, and finishes with a record of 65-0, will you come on this site and acknowledge him as one of the best heavy weights of all time according to his record.

No you won't, because you aren't stupid, just incredibaly biased.
So don't expect anyone else to do the same.

A reasoned debate takes into account record, trips abroad, dodgy decisions, skill of opponents fought, skill of opponents available at the time and just about anything else. People will rightly bring up these issues. If you have no answer to the points, then just don't answer.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 21 Dec 2004, 11:02

Priff wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:
don't call it a comeback wrote:Interesting interview. Its nice to see Ottke being realistic about himself and his achievements and his, er, style. But he doesnt have much choice really. The book on Ottke is written and he knows his place in history will be within a narrow box of achievement and his recognition outside Germany will always be limited.

I do think he overdoes the skill thing though - claiming that the Germans appreciated his style because they like to see skill whereas the rest of us like to see people getting whacked about. Its pretty damn patronising and not true. True boxing fans recognise great skill when they see it and skill and defensive ability is not just about nicking rounds. We appreciate Cotto as much for his ability to keep his chin out of trouble and control the pace of his fights as much as his offensive flurries. Ottke had a much more one dimensional approach - especially in his later years, when he reduced the spectacle to almost zero. Lets face it, even judged on his ability to entertain by being elusive, he was no Pernell Whitaker.

He fought in the style that was best suited to him winning but he was rarely dominant - not in any single fight, hardly in any single round. And dominance counts when you think about greatness.

Props to him for his doggedness and being the home fighter helps if you always have to go to the cards. He retired unbeaten and never fought on the road. Glen Johnson has travelled everywhere and got beaten a stack of times. I know who will go down in history as the better fighter.
bullshit. nobody would say: "Damon Hill is the better Formula1-driver than M.Schumacher because of the driving-style". but here you compare the success of boxers with theit style. nonsens. Johnson is a good boxer. Ottke is one of the best in his weight class of all times. again, not because of his style. but this is, according to his record, irrelevant.
This post has no good points in it.

If Audley Harrisson continues to fight blown up cruiser weights in England for the rest of his career, and finishes with a record of 65-0, will you come on this site and acknowledge him as one of the best heavy weights of all time according to his record.

No you won't, because you aren't stupid, just incredibaly biased.
So don't expect anyone else to do the same.

A reasoned debate takes into account record, trips abroad, dodgy decisions, skill of opponents fought, skill of opponents available at the time and just about anything else. People will rightly bring up these issues. If you have no answer to the points, then just don't answer.

the difference between Harrison and Ottke is that Ottke fought the best (except Calzaghe) and held two real world titles for a long time.

somebody who compares Ottke and Harrison has no knowledge about boxing. Harrision is a nobody in professional boxing. shut up and talk about something you know.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 21 Dec 2004, 11:30

I care for the WBO like I care for a shit.

Quality! Sven goes up in my estimation on the back of that comment I nearly fell off my chair when I read that. He he.

Priff · Post by **Priff** » 21 Dec 2004, 12:05

BubiScholz wrote:
Priff wrote:
BubiScholz wrote: bullshit. nobody would say: "Damon Hill is the better Formula1-driver than M.Schumacher because of the driving-style". but here you compare the success of boxers with theit style. nonsens. Johnson is a good boxer. Ottke is one of the best in his weight class of all times. again, not because of his style. but this is, according to his record, irrelevant.
This post has no good points in it.

If Audley Harrisson continues to fight blown up cruiser weights in England for the rest of his career, and finishes with a record of 65-0, will you come on this site and acknowledge him as one of the best heavy weights of all time according to his record.

No you won't, because you aren't stupid, just incredibaly biased.
So don't expect anyone else to do the same.

A reasoned debate takes into account record, trips abroad, dodgy decisions, skill of opponents fought, skill of opponents available at the time and just about anything else. People will rightly bring up these issues. If you have no answer to the points, then just don't answer.
the difference between Harrison and Ottke is that Ottke fought the best (except Calzaghe) and held two real world titles for a long time.

somebody who compares Ottke and Harrison has no knowledge about boxing. Harrision is a nobody in professional boxing. shut up and talk about something you know.

I was wrong. You are stupid.

The question you need to ask yourself is did I compare them? Or are you completely failing to understand the simplest of points, revealing yourself to be a simpleton?

Did I compare them?
Did I?
Did anybody?

I argued that no boxer can be measured on their records alone and presented a ficticous career as an example. You seem to be arguing with yourself don't you?

It's not like Germans to get aggressive and pick fights with their european friends. very out of character.

Sven Ottke in retirement

Sven Ottke in retirement

Re: Sven Ottke in retirement