Prime Frazier V Prime Holmes

[ThatOne]

I think the Frazier that stepped in the ring with Muhammad Ali in their first fight would have beat any heavyweight in the history of boxing save George Foreman who would beat Frazier one hundred out of one hundred times. That's not a knock on Joe. Big George was just too strong and Frazier's style was all wrong.

[harrygreb]

i tip joe to get to larry late on. left hook? of course a left hook!

[Goodnight, Irene]

i tip joe to get to larry late on. left hook? of course a left hook!

In a fifteen-rounder, I've got Frazier on a late corner-retirement as the most likely outcome. He may've been behind narrowly at the time, but would be starting to sweep rounds. Holmes was slick, intelligent, durable, & the jab would present recurring problems. He was also more vulnerable to a right hand than Ali's poison (the left hook), so that'd help, but I still question whether he has the legs, lungs & offense to best Frazier. Maybe, but I suspect not.

Wondering how the broken rib Frazier bestowed upon him would weigh on Holmes' mind, pre-fight? It'd have to be floating around somewhere in that manic head of his.

Entertaining fight. Holmes would be dominant at times, & would attempt to whoop it up, Ali-style, when he was.

[Grimm]

Well I think Holmes had more firepower than Ali and was just as tough. I would pick Holmes in a 15 or 12 rounder.

[ThatOne]

Well I think Holmes had more firepower than Ali and was just as tough. I would pick Holmes in a 15 or 12 rounder.

Well, we will just never know because Larry never faced as fierce a fighter as Sonny Lisrton, Joe Frazier, or George Foreman. We do know when he did it didn't end well.

Also, Ken Norton who fought both men said Ali was stroger:


Frank: Who was stronger, Muhammad Ali or Larry Holmes?

Norton: Oh Ali definetly, Ali was very strong but because he wasn't a one punch KO artist it is overlooked. Hitting Ali in the body or on the arms was like hitting a piece of cement


http://www.eastsideboxing.com/boxing-ne ... erview.php

[Goodnight, Irene]

Interesting comment, as Ali looked fairly soft in his first & third fights with Norton.

Goes to show looks aren't everything...then again, Norton was known to have little time for both Ali & Holmes, so who knows?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Well I think Holmes had more firepower than Ali and was just as tough. I would pick Holmes in a 15 or 12 rounder.

It's plausible, but, you know, Holmes really was just as inept & disinterested on the inside as was Ali. How would he deal with it when Frazier --- invevitably, in my view --- found the range & closed the gap? It'd be awful tough on him, he'd have to pump that jab at twice the rate of volume as he did in most of his defenses.

One thing worth considering is that Frazier has a much better blueprint (having fought Ali, especially in their first fight, when Ali was most like a prime Holmes) for fighting Holmes than vice-versa.

Against Holmes, Frazier has a precedent, & one with a solid amount of success, at that. Against Frazier, Holmes has no real background from which to fight.

[ThatOne]

Interesting comment, as Ali looked fairly soft in his first & third fights with Norton.

Goes to show looks aren't everything...then again, Norton was known to have little time for both Ali & Holmes, so who knows?

He's genuinely fond of Ali. Ali was one of the first people to visit him in the hospital after the car wreck that partially paralyzed him. Norton also goes on to say Ali was the best fighter he ever fought. In fact all of Ali's opponents liked him after time had passed except Frazier. Even Patterson came around.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Well, I was going from Norton's general sentiments during their careers, so if your quote is recent, I'll concede. He sure had a cold shoulder for Ali at one point, in any event, & I don't know if he ever warmed to Holmes.

I still think Frazier takes this, but if Holmes won it (especially over twelve), I wouldn't, in truth, be shocked. I'm positive Frazier hurts him significantly, irrespective of the outcome.

[ThatOne]

Well, I was going from Norton's general sentiments during their careers, so if your quote is recent, I'll concede. He sure had a cold shoulder for Ali at one point, in any event, & I don't know if he ever warmed to Holmes.

I still think Frazier takes this, but if Holmes won it (especially over twelve), I wouldn't, in truth, be shocked. I'm positive Frazier hurts him significantly, irrespective of the outcome.

Click on the link. He tells how Ali comes to see him in the hospital.

[McCannW14]

Well I think Holmes had more firepower than Ali and was just as tough. I would pick Holmes in a 15 or 12 rounder.

Me too. Holmes too well rounded for Joe. Larry by close 15 round decision, and he may even get Joe on the floor a couple of times early on.

[Grimm]

Well I think Holmes had more firepower than Ali and was just as tough. I would pick Holmes in a 15 or 12 rounder.

Well, we will just never know because Larry never faced as fierce a fighter as Sonny Lisrton, Joe Frazier, or George Foreman. We do know when he did it didn't end well.

Also, Ken Norton who fought both men said Ali was stroger:


Frank: Who was stronger, Muhammad Ali or Larry Holmes?

Norton: Oh Ali definetly, Ali was very strong but because he wasn't a one punch KO artist it is overlooked. Hitting Ali in the body or on the arms was like hitting a piece of cement


http://www.eastsideboxing.com/boxing-ne ... erview.php

I wasn't saying he was stronger.

[dempseyfire]

Frazier by a late fight TKO

Holmes had lots of similarities to Ali but ultmately lacked his durability and while his stamina was good, it was not as good as Ali's.

[yancey]

Yep, Frazier by TKO in the late rounds is about how it would go.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Well I think Holmes had more firepower than Ali and was just as tough. I would pick Holmes in a 15 or 12 rounder.

Me too. Holmes too well rounded for Joe. Larry by close 15 round decision, and he may even get Joe on the floor a couple of times early on.

Which punch of Holmes' is going to repeatedly (or even once, in all likelihood) deck Frazier? C'mon, really!? Who did Holmes floor a few times early in any fight? The names on that list sure don't inspire.

How many times was Frazier floored, "a couple of times" in the early stages of a bout? Please don't mention the beaten-to-death first Bonavena fight. It's of no relevance, & stupid beyond belief the way so many people use it to criticise Frazier.

Holmes could win. He could possibly floor Frazier once, early on. He'd never, in a million fights, repeatedly bring Frazier off his feet.

[Robinson]

A nice fight for us viewing it, but I think Holmes wins it.
Tough on both men. Though I think Holmes wins by a
late stoppage. But there would be moments that I as
a Holmes fan would be sweating while watching it.

[Goodnight, Irene]

A nice fight for us viewing it, but I think Holmes wins it.
Tough on both men. Though I think Holmes wins by a
late stoppage. But there would be moments that I as
a Holmes fan would be sweating while watching it.

If Holmes was smart (& he was), he'd try to negotiate this for as short a distance as possible. I really think his odds (which would always be decent, anyway) improve dramatically if this is twelve, instead of fifteen.

Argue for ten, Larry. Turn on some of that famous charm of yours D

[Counter-puncher]

good points, 12 rounds and a 23 foot ring, larry takes home the bacon here.

[Adamj1987]

Larry holmes beats joe frasier UD

[Ezzard]

This is one of those fights for which I feel confident of picking the winner. Both are greats and close in ability but for me the styles really favour Frazier.

I think Joe beats down Holmes to a decision, or, if he goes for it, he stops Larry late.

Great fight but Frazier wins.

[Robinson]

Larry could go 15 against Frazier. I am confident of that.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Larry could go 15 against Frazier. I am confident of that.

Would he win it with the jab, Kym?

[Robinson]

You know it ;)

It will be a sexy one too.

[Goodnight, Irene]

You know it ;)

It will be a sexy one too.

Don't tell me Holmes is going to get his freak on, screaming like a banshee, ala the fight against Mercer.

I can see the Fight Poster now, designed with Marvis in mind...

"Payback's A Bitch...& Joe Be Thy Name" D