Who won? Hagler or Leonard?

JM · Post by JM » 30 Dec 2004, 22:21

Who do you think won?

What were your scores?

President Goodnight · Post by **President Goodnight** » 31 Dec 2004, 00:28

I would say Sugar Ray won

Would have made a great rematch

http://www.GoodnightClubfights.com

Ridiculous_Ray · Post by **Ridiculous_Ray** » 31 Dec 2004, 01:36

im one of those who had hagler winning. i can see why people would score it in favor of leonard i suppose but i believe it was a gift decision.

haglers harder punches wins me over as opposed to leonards slap flurries and late in the round rallies.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 01 Jan 2005, 09:54

I had Hagler a 116-114 winner at the time and I stand by my scoring.

And always will.

RealDaddy · Post by **RealDaddy** » 01 Jan 2005, 10:50

No doubt that Hagler won. It was close indeed. 116-114 all the way. Why Oh why did Hagler give the first 3 rounds away? If he would have fought SRL like he did Herns. It would have been all she wrote.

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 01 Jan 2005, 11:08

115-113 Hagler. It took me a while to get over that one. Not because it was a horrible decision but because Hagler was my favorite fighter.

"Fight me like a man you little bitch" - Hagler

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 01 Jan 2005, 11:11

I have to admit that decision still bothers me.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 01 Jan 2005, 13:31

Tomato-Can wrote:115-113 Hagler. It took me a while to get over that one. Not because it was a horrible decision but because Hagler was my favorite fighter.

"Fight me like a man you little bitch" - Hagler

Same thing happened to mine.

JM · Post by JM » 01 Jan 2005, 14:24

I had leonard winning 115-113

I thought it could have went either way really.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 01 Jan 2005, 16:13

Very Very close

At the time, I gave it to SRL. However, on a recent re-watch, I have to say, Hagler won it. He threw the better punches while SRL caught the judges' eye with the flurrys of punches at the end of each round

Hagler's ability to walk away from the sport makes him a real great in my eyes

Slapsie

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 01 Jan 2005, 18:36

Slapsie Maxie wrote:Hagler's ability to walk away from the sport makes him a real great in my eyes

That's right, Hagler is a class act, in and out of the ring.

crooked nose · Post by **crooked nose** » 02 Jan 2005, 18:11

Yes, that one was hard to take for so many reasons. First, it's just bad judging. They fell for Ray's cutie-pie stuff. Second, Hagler was not at his best. He was past his prime, lacking the speed and accuracy of earlier years. Also, I think he got too tight. He really, really disliked Leonard and wanted not just to win but to kick his ass. The animosity came from Leonard's "retirement" in 1982 when he staged that big event to announce his intentions after the eye injury. With everyone expecting Leonard to say he wanted Hagler, he instead took a powder and left Hagler looking like a chump. Only when Hagler's skills eroded after five years of title fights did Ray see fit to say OK. I never liked Leonard and that act only deepened my scorn for the "little bitch." Maybe Hagler's revenge is to live well and respected in retirement.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 02 Jan 2005, 18:26

crooked nose wrote:Maybe Hagler's revenge is to live well and respected in retirement.

Somebody once told me "The best form of revenge is to live a happy life".

They may well be right.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 03 Jan 2005, 18:08

Pretty close fight...I had Leonard winning the fight by 3 points.

lumpymo · Post by **lumpymo** » 04 Jan 2005, 04:20

I had Hagler as the clear winner in that fight. People, judges followed to much of SRL's cuttie slap stik shit, running, not dancing, but running from Hagler, hoping around the ring away from Hagler. Hagler made the mistake of underestimating SRL and also allowing the SRL team to buy the last 3 rounds (it was suppose to be a 15 rounder) and to allow the use of bigger (10 once) gloves. He also looked like he believed, and I read it somewhere before the fight (he was quoted) saying he could outbox SRL if he wanted to. At the start of the fight he looked like that was what he was trying to do, and gave away some early rounds as a result, also going orthodox at the start didn't help him any either. I still had Hagler the winner after the fight, and I watched it several times after as well with the same conclusion.
I always hated SRL for the way he choose fights, not when his opponent was at his best, not when one could see who was really the best fighter in the ring, but just take every possible advantage that he could find and exploit it to his advantage to get the win. I do give him credos over beating some tough guys at their peak (Hearns the first time) , but whenever possible SRL's team when they had the pull would use any means to get the win, money, the time and day of the fight, ring size, the 2nd Duran fight was in a 25 foot ring can you believe that, the first fight was in a 20 foot ring which was huge for smaller fighters at that time.
Anyways I am rambling here, or venting.

cheers M.O.

The Judge · Post by **The Judge** » 04 Jan 2005, 09:22

crooked nose wrote: He was past his prime, lacking the speed and accuracy of earlier years. .

True, however an overlooked thing is that was Leonard's FIRST fight at middleweight. He wasn't even close to his prime self at welterweight. People always talk about Ray's pitter-patter in this fight to steal rounds, but in the last few rounds Ray faught his way off the ropes with those punches. They were enough to make Marvin back up, which is damn near impossible. This is on about four months since watching the fight, I'll have to dig up the VHS.

115-113 Leonard

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 04 Jan 2005, 13:48

Another thing about that fight was I found the USA commentary very biased against Hagler.

During I think round 7 a retreating Leonard threw a wide 'bolo' punch, Hagler at that point tucked up and the punch clearly landed on Haglers thigh.

However the USA commentator said "Leonard shows him the Bolo punch, AND LANDS IT!!!!"

But that punch was a blatent LOW BLOW. But the commontators seemed to think it was great.

I often thought that if that 'pro Leonard' atmosphere was influencing the TV commontators, who else was effected by it?

crooked nose · Post by **crooked nose** » 04 Jan 2005, 15:18

Leonard always took advantage of his appeal to casual fans and non-fans. He could do no wrong in the eyes of many, and despite Hagler's years of effort and achievement, Marvelous Marvin entered the ring that night as the "bad guy". Yes, it was Leonard's first middleweight fight, but if I recall correctly didn't Leonard's camp insist on a weight below 160, among all the other advantages they bought?
There are few fighters who stir the anger of true fans like SRL. There was always something slightly fraudulent and deeply narcissistic about him. He was the center of his own universe, and in the end, no one else mattered, not even the skilled team (Dundee, Morton, Trainer) who brought him to the top. I don't think he can be happy in retirement because he so desperately craves the spotlight.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Oct 2006, 20:51

Here's a perrenial.....and some old thoughts on the subject...

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 05 Oct 2006, 21:13

All the times I've watched it I've scored it either 116-113 or 117-112 for Sugar Ray Leonard.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 05 Oct 2006, 23:07

115 - 113 Leonard.

Neo · Post by **Neo** » 06 Oct 2006, 02:33

elmersalsa wrote:Pretty close fight...I had Leonard winning the fight by 3 points.

3 points is not pretty close.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 06 Oct 2006, 05:03

Just browsinmg through the encyclopedia and found these...

AP: 117-112 Hagler
New York Daily News: 117-111 Leonard
New York Times: 114-114
New York Post: 114-114
Newsday: 115-114 Hagler
Chicago Tribune: 7-5 in rounds Hagler
Houston Chronicle: 115-114 Leonard
Washington Post: 114-114
Boston Globe: 117-111 Leonard
Boston Herald 116-113 Leonard
Baltimore Sun: 7-5 in rounds Leonard
Oakland Tribune: 117-112 Leonard
San Jose Mercury-News: 116-115 Hagler

Add to this the judges scorecards

Jose Guerra 118-110 (Leonard)
Lou Filippo 115-113 (Hagler)
Dave Moretti 115-113 (Leonard)

And we have

Leonard with 8 votes
Hagler with 5
Draw with 3

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:27

Ezzard wrote:Just browsinmg through the encyclopedia and found these...

AP: 117-112 Hagler
New York Daily News: 117-111 Leonard
New York Times: 114-114
New York Post: 114-114
Newsday: 115-114 Hagler
Chicago Tribune: 7-5 in rounds Hagler
Houston Chronicle: 115-114 Leonard
Washington Post: 114-114
Boston Globe: 117-111 Leonard
Boston Herald 116-113 Leonard
Baltimore Sun: 7-5 in rounds Leonard
Oakland Tribune: 117-112 Leonard
San Jose Mercury-News: 116-115 Hagler

Add to this the judges scorecards

Jose Guerra 118-110 (Leonard)
Lou Filippo 115-113 (Hagler)
Dave Moretti 115-113 (Leonard)

And we have

Leonard with 8 votes
Hagler with 5
Draw with 3

that is a fvcking disgrace if you ask me. Also, im suprised to see the Boston Globe giving such a wide margin to Leonard, Hagler is there hometown boy!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Oct 2006, 07:41

It was a close fight but the fact is Leonard outboxed a very sluggish and ringworn looking Hagler... many people forget that Leonard won just about all the first 6 rounds and then had the better finish... at the end of the day it was never the robbery that manay have cliamed and really Hagler only has himself and his management to blame for all the concessions they made to Ray in order to get the fight....