USA vs Great Britain - October 2009

[jnelsonc]

Dennis, I have a serious question for you - the 119 lbers have to make a decision to go down to 114 or up to 123. Now, in your honest opinion, who are the top 4 fighters at 114lbs, and who are the top 4 fighters at 123lbs?

[Dennis]

Dennis, I have a serious question for you - the 119 lbers have to make a decision to go down to 114 or up to 123. Now, in your honest opinion, who are the top 4 fighters at 114lbs, and who are the top 4 fighters at 123lbs?

I would say that in the 114# class you have Louie Byrd (unless he drops down to 108), Adam Lopez, Michael Ruiz, Oscar Cantu and Luis Rosa (if he can get down to 114). There are probably a couple of other guys who might do well if they can drop down to 114 from 119 and a few moving up to the senior ranks from the JO's. If Rau'shee Warren wanted to he could probably do well at 114# assuming he can make the weight. Stephon Young is another guy who should make some noise at 114 as he easily defeated Great Britain's Daniel Chapman at 51kg (with the 1kg allowance so it really was at 114#). Young may elect to box at 49kg (108#) though.

In the 123# class, you have Jesus Magdaleno, Rau’shee Warren (if he doesn't drop down to 114), Victor Pasillas, Kevin Rivers and Ernie Garza. Robert Rodriguez would have been, but he turned pro instead. Another talented 18 year old off to the pros.

[jnelsonc]

Good Dennis - I see you've done your homework!

[badsboxer]

I agree with you on that Dennis. As Rau'shee is growing and developing, he is filling out and I can see him fighting successfully at 123. And Louie Byrd, a growing kid fighting at 112, has beaten all the competition there. I hear he walks around at 115. Since he is ranked #1 at 112, why would he want to drop all the way to 108 when 114 would still be a drop for him?

[Dennis]

As far as Louie is concerned, I'm just going by what his dad, Jeff, had to say. A few months ago he said that Louie could still easily make 106 if he wanted to. It is up to them to decide what weight class is better for Louie and gives him the best chance of winning a medal in the 2012 Olympics. He might be able to do it at either weight, but if the drain to get to 108 is too much, then 114 is better. If it isn't that hard to make 108, then he might win gold instead of a silver or bronze at 114. We will see just have to wait and see what decision they make and how Louie performs.

[Dennis]

The first dual for Team USA vs GB takes place in England today. The second one is Sunday. The one today is the tougher of the two as they face a GB squad featuring some of the best boxers from England, Wales and Scotland while the one on Sunday is against an all-England squad. Some boxers from England who are on the GB Podium or Developmental squads will compete against Team USA in both competitions.

[badsboxer]

That makes good sense Dennis - the gold medal is definitely the biggest prize. Does USA Boxing post the results of the GB matches immediately?

[Dennis]

That makes good sense Dennis - the gold medal is definitely the biggest prize. Does USA Boxing post the results of the GB matches immediately?

Unfortunately USA Boxing does not post the results immediately. USAB has a small staff and they only work a half day on Fridays so there is nobody home to put it up on the website unless Andrew does it from England. Julie Goldsticker is back working for USA Boxing but only part-time. She always did a great job of posting results when she was a full-time employee but now she does what she can when she is there. I would hope to see the results on their website on Monday. If I find out, I will post them ASAP.

[Dennis]

I just heard from Cam Thompson that he was the only male boxer on Team USA to win. GB won 7-1 over USA. I don't know how the two women's bouts ended.

[Dennis]

The 7-1 win for GB over USA included the two women's bouts. Luis Arias and Errol Spence didn't box as GB didn't enter boxers in their weight classes. I hope they both get to box on Sunday as they are both good and have good chances of winning.

GB boxer vs USA boxer; result
Khalid Yafai v. Michael Ruiz; Yafai won by RSC-2
Andrew Selby v. John Franklin; Selby won 13 – 9
Iain Weaver v. Ricky Edwards; Weaver won 28 – 6
Natasha Jones v. Patricia Manuel; Jones won 11 – 8
Savannah Marshall v. Brittany Inkrote; Marshall won 16 – 3
Tom Stalker v. Erick DeLeon; Stalker won 15-13
Stephen Simmons v. Lamar Fener; Simmons won 20-6
Simon Vallily v. Lenroy Thompson; Thompson won 27-6

[boxfan88]

USABoxing should send the best boxers instead of their favorites and the coaches' fighters

[boxingcfy]

I agree, politics always rears its ugly head in this. meanwhile we are being humiliated 7-1. The USOC needs to "clean house" yet again- does anyone REALLY know why CEO Millman had to leave?

[panhandle boxing]

Probably because he didn't want noone to say anything about the team!!! Maybe the USOC needs to pick kids that are hungry for a win wanting to prove themselves!! Not the ones that are their favorites! USA boxing should be represented by the best, most determine, and hungry for that win type of kid!!!!

[Dennis]

Exactly who would you like to send? Did one of your boxers or friends get overlooked?

USA Boxing is trying to give a lot of different boxers in each weight class some international experience. What is wrong with that? If they give every trip to the same guys, people would complain about that too.

In regard to sending the best - some of the best are injured. Some just got done boxing in another dual 2 weeks ago. I guarantee you that USA Boxing could send all the #1's to GB and we would still have a tough time. Ddid you notice that we only won 1 medal at the last Olympics and this year's World Championships?. Our top boxers are for the most part very inexperienced in international boxing. GB's boxing program has cleaned house, set up a new training facility in Sheffield and are getting millions of dollars in lottery and government funding. Their funding is at least 5 times more than what USA Boxing receives. GB's podium boxers receive more than double the monthly stipend that our #1's receive, GB gives more boxers money than we do and they have a developmental squad too. GB also has boxing in their schools so they have a huge talent pool to draw from in selecting their elite squads.

[Dennis]

USA Boxing is working at a disadvantage plus we have a tough time keeping our top amateurs from turning pro. We need to get more boxers involved in the sport and that starts at the local level with everyone working hard to recruit more kids into the sport and teach them sound fundamentals right from the start. The keys are to teach proper stance, footwork, hand positioning, punching techniques and defensive skills. It is hard work, but it is what needs to be done. Every gym could double the number of boxers and then USA Boxing would have more than 76,000 athletes instead of just 38,000. The increase in numbers would also alleviate the financial crisis and as the program grew, the talent pool for 2012 and beyond would get larger.

[BoxeoUltimo]

We've got to be honest with ourselves USA boxing isn't even considered a threat in amateur boxing anymore, 3rd countries such as Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Dominican republic, etc are considered more of a threat. it's because kids in the USA don't even consider staying amateur anymore, also with the usaboxing not only providing enough trips for kids to gain more experience, partly because of the recession i imagine. what i suggest is that usaboxing should go by aiba rules, including the golden gloves, regional and state tournaments, computer scoring, aiba judging, aiba equipment etc. also US coaching is all based on pro boxing, to punish to your opponent, were in other countries they concentrate on skill first. but usa boxing has a longs way to go before they start winning gold in amateur boxing again.

[Dennis]

We've got to be honest with ourselves USA boxing isn't even considered a threat in amateur boxing anymore, 3rd countries such as Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Dominican republic, etc are considered more of a threat. it's because kids in the USA don't even consider staying amateur anymore, also with the usaboxing not only providing enough trips for kids to gain more experience, partly because of the recession i imagine. what i suggest is that usaboxing should go by aiba rules, including the golden gloves, regional and state tournaments, computer scoring, aiba judging, aiba equipment etc. also US coaching is all based on pro boxing, to punish to your opponent, were in other countries they concentrate on skill first. but usa boxing has a longs way to go before they start winning gold in amateur boxing again.

So instead of being part of the problem, become part of the solution. Train boxers at a gym using the techniques that will make them successful in international boxing. A lot of that has to do with proper fundamentals. We kid ourselves when we think that we are losing because our boxers can't adapt to computer scoring or the "international" style of boxing. Most of our boxers would lose if they were using paper scoring, clicker scoring or computer scoring. These other countries are teaching better basics and keeping their stars in the amateurs longer. I really think a boxer who is very skilled can be successful no matter what. It may take some experience with the other types of scoring and styles of boxing, but they will adapt and become successful. We do need to get more international trips and training camps for our elite boxers. We also need developmental camps for the up and coming future stars of USA Boxing. The personal coaches also need to learn new training techniques. Flexibilty, agility, speed, strength and conditioning exercises have evolved and boxing needs to grasp some of these new ideas.

[JMac]

I agree, politics always rears its ugly head in this. meanwhile we are being humiliated 7-1. The USOC needs to "clean house" yet again- does anyone REALLY know why CEO Millman had to leave?

Another guy that has no clue what he is talking about. Millman pissed away close to 2 million dollars. That's why he is gone. The USOC needs to get their own act together before they "clean house" with USAB. Every year after the Olympics, our boxers do not do that well because we are rebuilding. It will take some time to get the boxers international experience. There will be an election in USAB probably in early January and there will be a whole new BOD and guess what, it won't change much with our boxers in international competitions until the coaches make the changes that Dennis talked about in his post.

[JMac]

USABoxing should send the best boxers instead of their favorites and the coaches' fighters

Read above on this thread on how the boxers were picked. Do you think national golden glove champs and runner-ups went to London to lose?? Get a clue.

[JMac]

Probably because he didn't want noone to say anything about the team!!! Maybe the USOC needs to pick kids that are hungry for a win wanting to prove themselves!! Not the ones that are their favorites! USA boxing should be represented by the best, most determine, and hungry for that win type of kid!!!!

Read what I wrote to boxfan88. Again, do you think USAB sent boxers who wanted to lose? There is a tournament coming up in Russia that USAB is going to send the # 1's or 2's if the #1 is not available. It will be tough for them but it will be a huge opportunity for them to gain international experience against tough European/Asian boxers. By sending more boxers overseas, they will hopefully learn and pick up on the style that is successful in international amateur boxing. It may take several loses before it sinks in. Love or hate the computer scoring system that is used in amateur boxing and I personally hate it but the boxers either need to adapt or get used to not winning.

[Dennis]

Probably because he didn't want noone to say anything about the team!!! Maybe the USOC needs to pick kids that are hungry for a win wanting to prove themselves!! Not the ones that are their favorites! USA boxing should be represented by the best, most determine, and hungry for that win type of kid!!!!

Read what I wrote to boxfan88. Again, do you think USAB sent boxers who wanted to lose? There is a tournament coming up in Russia that USAB is going to send the # 1's or 2's if the #1 is not available. It will be tough for them but it will be a huge opportunity for them to gain international experience against tough European/Asian boxers. By sending more boxers overseas, they will hopefully learn and pick up on the style that is successful in international amateur boxing. It may take several loses before it sinks in. Love or hate the computer scoring system that is used in amateur boxing and I personally hate it but the boxers either need to adapt or get used to not winning.

JMac you are correct. I don't think any of the USA boxers want to lose. They typically are convinced that they won't suffer the same fate as other USA boxers. Then they get it there and discover that the boxers from other countries are very good. They need to realize going up against the best here isn't the same as going up against the best in the world.

[Dennis]

My son Jordan Shimmell is getting ready for the trip to Russia. He has struggled a little bit on the international scene this summer, but knows it is a learning process. He is closing the gap and has boxed 2 top 5 world ranked boxers and another - Simmons who last year defeated the world's #1 ranked Osmay Acosta. Jordan is gaining confidence as he realizes that he is competing with the world's best and that he only has to improve a little to start winning these bouts. Will he win his next bout? I can't say for sure, but I do know that he is training hard to get better and he hates to lose. I can assure everyone that Jordan will give it his all and will be trying to win. I see him progressing and that is what is most important. Winning now would be nice, but the goal is to keep getting better so that he can win in London in 2012. I would rather have him lose a bunch of bouts now and not lose at all in 2012 than win a bunch now and lose his first bout in London-2012 or lose in the qualifiers.

Jordan is taking very tough international bouts this year. If you are afraid to take the risk of a tough bout and are afraid to lose, you will never become the best.

[badsboxer]

Hey Dennis, when is the trip to Russia, and who is going? I am optimistic that we will do much better this time

[Dennis]

The boxers leave for Russia on December 12th and leave Russia on December 21st. The trip to Russia is for the top USA boxers. As JMac said it is for the #1's or the #2's. I'm not sure if they would drop down below #2 as I'm not on the CITF. There are boxers who have the talent to compete at the international level, but because of the bad luck of the draw at the USA Boxing National Championships they aren't ranked in the top 2. #3 ranked Rau'shee Warren and #5 ranked Lenroy Thompson come to mind. The 141# class has at least 3 or 4 guys that can compete at that level. USA Boxing's CITF just started making phone calls to confirm the team. I think the team will be finalized by Monday or Tuesday and then USAB should post it.

I'm hoping that the team is similar to the one that went to the world championships in August (all #1's).
48kg-Miguel Cartenga
51kg-Louie Byrd
54kg-Jesus Magdaleno
57kg-Kevin Rivers
60kg-Duran Caferro, Jr.
64kg-Frankie Gomez
69kg-Errol Spence
75kg-Terrell Gausha
81kg-Robert Brant
91kg-Jordan Shimmell
91+kg-Michael Hunter

[JMac]

For some reason, the boxers have to be born 1990 or before and some of the #1's are too young.