Rocky Marciano and the mob?

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 07 Dec 2005, 18:38

I have read a few books on the Rock and whilst I’ve never read it written out clearly I always got the impression he had a lot of links to the mob.

The obvious would be him being of Italian origin but other things niggles also, his business dealings and his Cuban links stand out because the mob were a big part of it as they were with boxing back then, and there were occasions when people who had got involved had met untimely deaths when money worries arose.

When he came to England after his retirement he was pictured with the Krays who were said to be looking to get involved with the mafia at the time, maybe I just have an over active imagination and it is nothing but coincidence but did he have any links?

JC · Post by JC » 07 Dec 2005, 19:07

tonyevs wrote:When he came to England after his retirement he was pictured with the Krays who were said to be looking to get involved with the mafia at the time, maybe I just have an over active imagination and it is nothing but coincidence but did he have any links?

As far as the Kreys, go they always liked to be photographed with celebrities and were such big boxing fans they always made sure to meet any big anyUS fighters who came to the UK. I've seen picks of them with Archie Moore amongst others. So I think their meeting with Marciano would have more to do with their admiration for his boxing skill than anything else.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 07 Dec 2005, 20:09

marciano respected and admired mafia guys and defintley hung out with them , but by now way in any means was there a link between him and them in terms of fixing fights.

a italian mafia guy called marciano before the cockell fight asking him to throw the fight for more money in the rematch,
rocky replied : " fornicate u, ur a disgrace to the italians." and hung up. something like that .

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 07 Dec 2005, 20:13

in toches book about sonny liston, they described moore taking a dive vs marciano.

- that comment in toches book was defintley not true! the Rock Of His Times wrote a small paragraph about why it wasnt true in terms of mafia, I will go look for it.

jaclem talked about it once i believe, said that this comment about moore-marciano wass defintley not true and moore did not take a dive.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 08 Dec 2005, 03:55

... i said the idea of archie taking a dive was so ridicuous it's a wonder it ever even got started....but nick tosches passes along things like that..he thinks it makes him sound like an insider, which he is not.

the reason the idea is ridiculous is right there in the fight...if for no other reason. as i wrote...archie damn near lifted rocky off the ground with that right hand punch that would have kayoed 99% of any other boxers. why throw one like that if concrete shoes were waiting if he was going to tank it? also...archie had several opportunities to stay down with no apologies...but he stayed in there and fought back until he finally couldn't take it any more. the referee had actually asked him at one point if he could continiue and continue he did.

as for rocky and the mob....well.....i was friends with a few gentlemen in cleveland whom rocky often visited...they helped him collect money owed him that rocky had loaned with interest. let us just say that when these gentleman suggested paying up, one did so without a nanoseconds hesitation. but....as far as marciano's fights? readers here know i do not hold him in high esteem as a fighter....but his fights were on the level....no fixing....no tampering..nada.

true..as written...a lot of mob guys (and accused mob guys who well may not be) like to hang around celebrities especially in the sports and show business worlds.....which does not mean the celebrities in question are anything but honest people.

hell...i'm started now...it always bugs me when i hear of "alleged mobster" or "well known gangster"...etc. to me a mobster is someone who is either under arrrest or being hunted by the law....a gangster is a convict or a fugitive.if he aint in jail or on the run...he's neither.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 08 Dec 2005, 10:15

I did not mean for one second his fights were fixed, why would he make them such hard nights work if he didn`t have to

No, what I meant was his dealings after he retired, he had, or was looking to have interests in Cuba which was very much mafia territory then.

-KOKid- · Post by **-KOKid-** » 08 Dec 2005, 11:28

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:in toches book about sonny liston, they described moore taking a dive vs marciano.

- that comment in toches book was defintley not true! the Rock Of His Times wrote a small paragraph about why it wasnt true in terms of mafia, I will go look for it.

jaclem talked about it once i believe, said that this comment about moore-marciano wass defintley not true and moore did not take a dive.

Nick Tosches book on Liston was disapointing. It contains too many crine theories, almost as if he wished he'd written Liston's story himself.
Tosches should stick to proven facts when writing biographies and save the fiction for his crime books.
I am still waiting for Liston to get the bio written about him that he deserves.

-KOKid-

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 08 Dec 2005, 11:34

is that the night train book?how that won any award is beyond me.i couldn't follow the book at all.its one of the poorest reads ever.

-KOKid- · Post by **-KOKid-** » 08 Dec 2005, 11:59

Yup, "Night Train" or "The Devil & Sonny Liston" all depending on which version you get. They're the same book. I've read a good few boxing books and this one was the most disapointing. It contains nothing we didn't already know and what might be new is pure speculation on the author's part. At the very best I'd give it 6/10.

There is another Liston book out that I am awaiting from Amazon soon called "Sonny Liston Was A Friend of Mine" by Thom Jones.
Anyone read this one?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... ROKL5A1OLE

Another book I found that failed to live up to expectations, even though they were low, was James "Quick" Tillis' bio.
I did not like that one. Some parts were plain awful. A waste of time.

-KOKid-

john2345 · Post by **john2345** » 08 Dec 2005, 12:51

-KOKid- wrote:Yup, "Night Train" or "The Devil & Sonny Liston" all depending on which version you get. They're the same book. I've read a good few boxing books and this one was the most disapointing. It contains nothing we didn't already know and what might be new is pure speculation on the author's part. At the very best I'd give it 6/10.

There is another Liston book out that I am awaiting from Amazon soon called "Sonny Liston Was A Friend of Mine" by Thom Jones.
Anyone read this one?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... ROKL5A1OLE

Another book I found that failed to live up to expectations, even though they were low, was James "Quick" Tillis' bio.
I did not like that one. Some parts were plain awful. A waste of time.

-KOKid-

Though this might seem like a strange response, I'm not sure that "Sonny Liston was a friend of mine" is actually about Liston - I looked up a review and it appeared to be a collection of short stories, loosely related to boxing. Gets pretty lousy reviews too...do a Google search on the author's name and "liston" and you'll see...

Here's one link...
http://www.salon.com/books/sneaks/1999/02/09sneaks.html

J

JC · Post by JC » 08 Dec 2005, 13:18

john2345 wrote:
-KOKid- wrote:Yup, "Night Train" or "The Devil & Sonny Liston" all depending on which version you get. They're the same book. I've read a good few boxing books and this one was the most disapointing. It contains nothing we didn't already know and what might be new is pure speculation on the author's part. At the very best I'd give it 6/10.

There is another Liston book out that I am awaiting from Amazon soon called "Sonny Liston Was A Friend of Mine" by Thom Jones.
Anyone read this one?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... ROKL5A1OLE

Another book I found that failed to live up to expectations, even though they were low, was James "Quick" Tillis' bio.
I did not like that one. Some parts were plain awful. A waste of time.

-KOKid-

Though this might seem like a strange response, I'm not sure that "Sonny Liston was a friend of mine" is actually about Liston - I looked up a review and it appeared to be a collection of short stories, loosely related to boxing. Gets pretty lousy reviews too...do a Google search on the author's name and "liston" and you'll see...

Here's one link...
http://www.salon.com/books/sneaks/1999/02/09sneaks.html

J

Yes it is a book of short stories not a Liston Biography, I happen to rate Thom Jones quite highly in that particular genre but as you say most of the reviewers don't agree with me.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Dec 2005, 13:49

my mom bought me a book "sonny and me" (something like that) thinking it was about sonny liston, but in fact it was a fictional story about a random boxer named sonnny!

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 08 Dec 2005, 14:19

Probably the only thing better developed than Archie's fighting ability was his sense of honor. Archie would never take a dive and there has never been a credible word spoken in this regard.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 08 Dec 2005, 14:40

..buzzy gets to the heart of it. when the referee...and even archie's corner...suggested stopping it, archie said "I, too, am a champion" and continued as long as he could.....longer than most, i'd say.

marciano49-0greatest · Post by **marciano49-0greatest** » 14 Nov 2009, 17:09

First of all this Tosches character is a pure idiot. A real hanger on, to say that Moore tanked the fight is moronic at best. Second to say in any way that the Rock isn't the greatest of all time is stupid. 49 - 0 says it all. And don't give me any crap about who he fought. He fought and beat all who were presented to him, just like all fighters. And ALL fighters fought/fight tomatoe cans. Third of all the mob guys made it real clear that is was "hands off" as far as the Rock's fights were concerned. So get off of that horse!

Rocky Marciano, the greatest of all time, bar none, without exception!!!!!!!!!

Nuff said!!!!!!!!!

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Nov 2009, 09:14

The Rock is the greatest? That aint neccessarily so. The rest of what you say makes good sense.

jaclem2 · Post by **jaclem2** » 15 Nov 2009, 17:04

correction...not only is rocky not the greatest of all time...he is not even ONE of the greatest of all time.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 15 Nov 2009, 21:42

amazing picking up a conversation like this 4 years later. Aging like a fine cheese....with just a hint of stench....Please take note, Rocky was mob free. Now if the Cosa Nostra is the topic you care to ponder, let's change the subject matter from the short Italian HW champion to that tall Italian HW champ.

All the mob action you care to review available in the record for that fella. Not that he wasn't a genuine nice guy...which they both surely were.

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 16 Nov 2009, 01:15

The book about Sonny Liston to get is SONNY BOY by Rob Steen published in Britain in 1993 in hardcover.
It was reprinted in paperback last year under the title SONNY LISTON AND THE PHANTOM PUNCH.

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 16 Nov 2009, 01:17

Reportly it was the Floyd Patterson vrs Archie Moore fight where it was suspected he took a dive.

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 16 Nov 2009, 08:12

Marciano might have been an Italian American, but he took great pride in his boxing... (49 wins out of 49)...

Yet, I have heard nothing whatsoever about these susupected "links" to the Mafia...

Undoubtedly, he probably had friends in the Mafia, one might go so far as to assume he even had family members (parhaps distantly related) to Mafia members, but he was no Mafia member himself...

Marciano was a genuine and true World Champion.

yancey · Post by **yancey** » 16 Nov 2009, 12:33

jaclem2 wrote:correction...not only is rocky not the greatest of all time...he is not even ONE of the greatest of all time.

He would not be in my Top 10 heavy list.

The films don't lie.

ThatOne · Post by **ThatOne** » 16 Nov 2009, 13:05

yancey wrote:
jaclem2 wrote:correction...not only is rocky not the greatest of all time...he is not even ONE of the greatest of all time.
He would not be in my Top 10 heavy list.The films don't lie.

res ipsa loquitur

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QWAbm_zAMY

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 16 Nov 2009, 13:08

Marciano would be in my top 5 of all time...

Heres a guy who finished with a prefect record...

And he beat Hall of Fame boxers...
Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Lee Savold and Archie Moore!

How can you not put him in your top 10?

ThatOne · Post by **ThatOne** » 16 Nov 2009, 13:14

Crease wrote:Marciano would be in my top 5 of all time...

Heres a guy who finished with a prefect record...

And he beat Hall of Fame boxers...
Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Lee Savold and Archie Moore!

How can you not put him in your top 10?

He deserves to be Top Ten because of his accomplishments but I have trouble saying he's The Greatest.

Calzaghe and PBF are undefeated, might retire that way, but I have trouble saying they are the greatest because of the level of their competition; Calzaghe beat a fading RJJ and BHop, PBF beat a fading DLH. The "greats" they beat were all fading or faded;similiar to the condition of the greats Marciano beat.

Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?

Re: Rocky Marciano and the mob?