Pacman - all time list?

[WildWaylon]

Absolutely. Pac has dared to be great. Mayweather will not risk it.

Made me laugh how cool and calm Pacman was. With a big smile on his face, for him it was just another day at the office. He was up against a man Mayweather didnt want to fight but Manny had no fear of him at all. Mayweather knows now there is only one man to fight or go back into retirement.

[Cannibal]

I think Pac genuinely has the belief that as long as he has faith in God and trusts his "master" Freddy Roach then he has nothing to fear and thus fears no boxer walking today.

[iwz678]

pacquaio is definitley in the top 10 all time, seven weight champion, five weight world champion, incredible speed and power, the guy is simply awesome an absolute genius.

[Carbo]

Been thinking about this non-stop over the weekend. I can't get it out of my mind.

I remember now watching the first three rounds and nearly shitting myself with excitement.

The amazing thing is that he didn't beat a washed up Cotto -- which in itself would have still be an achievement -- but a near-prime Cotto. Cotto was fabulous in the first four rounds, and rounds two, three and four were truly amazing. Nothing but a near-prime Cotto could have maintained that, and competed so hard for five rounds in that fire. I'm not sure I can imagine, bar, say, Hagler-Hearns round 1 or a few from the first Barrera - Morales fight for example, rounds that quite combined the raw, elemental attacks, frenzied activity and the technical brilliance. Others have been as frenzied, but it was the combination that did it.

And yet Pacquiao just took control.

For three and a half rounds I thought Cotto could do it. For five full rounds it was competitive. By the end of the sixth, it was all over.

And this against a man who ranked on the top 10 p4p on most lists. Against a man who had only lost once -- to a huge, rugged, unstoppable welterweight with probably loaded gloves. Against a man who was naturally bigger.

WOW!

[MightyWarrior]

While I thought PacMan would win this in the run up, in the first round, I changed my mind: Cotto looked rock solid, at the top of his game, like a fighter about to make a career defining statement. He was punching with real venom, Pac looked a bit shocked by his intesity, and I thought this is a fighter who is not going to be denied...even when he was knocked down early, he came back to dominate the round.

But my god, Manny is just unreal, he wins fights where logic says maybe he shouldn't. I don't know how he takes punches off such a superb P4P puncher like Cotto, coming up through the weights like that. I didn't think Cotto looked shot either, just that Manny would have beaten him at any point in his career.

PacMan deserves his place in any all time list, top 20 whatever, he's right up there.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Floyd wins because he is so defensively good and a bigger man and has a solid chin.

De La Hoya was faded force going out on his shield.

Hatton never belonged at the top .

And Cotto stood and had a fight.

Mayweather will be alot more diffcult to fight and beat.

But I hope Manny does spark him out -

But I see Mayweather winning.

However - Mayweather wont fight Shane Mosley - so me may duck Pac as well.

Remeber Mayweather wants everything in his favour - both physically and contractiually before he ever faces someone these days.

So this fight may not happen. - But because of the massive money this will generate - he may be tempted.

[Goz]

Good thread this and reading all the Pacquia plaudits and justification for his inclusion in people's ATG listings really puts what he has achieved into context.

As some have said, it's not just the winning of these fights but the manner in which he is doing so, by absolutely battering some top level naturally bigger men which is endearing him to boxing fans the world over.

[SticknMove]

He's moving up. The Floyd fight, and possible win, is a must as his last three fights have seen him beat flawed guys. Oscar is not a great. Hatton definitely not. Cotto neither. Not trying to piss on Manny's parade here but Cotto is a solid fighter but nowhere near a great. HOF for sure yet Miguel is lacking at the very top level. Floyd and Manny need to duke it out to have one of those Leonard, Hagler, Hearns and Duran type of fights, two bona fide top boys having it out.

I think Floyd wins it but it needs to be made, if only for Roach Vs Roger.

I agree on all counts.

A sense of perspective can only be achieved once his career is over. I too think that PBF wins but what a great spectacle it would be. Matchups like these transcend the sport and that is what greatness is all about.

[tonyevs]

Based on what he has achieved. I’d say he is the greatest fighter of my generation.

To have moved through so many weights, fighting dominant guys at each weight proves beyond doubt his greatness.
Some people could possibly question if the guys he has fought have been at the top of their game. But the manner in which he has brushed them aside is more telling.

[yiddle]

surely it is best to wait until he has reitired before deciding on his all time ranking

[Jon Saxon]

I've been thinking about this, and I think he's the first to crack the top 20 since Leonard.


[/i].

Eh? Roy Jones he aint.

And thank fcuk for that

You obviously no nothing about this sport.

[Jon Saxon]

[/quote]

And thank fcuk for that[/quote]
x 2! PBF's the new RJJ - in fact, he's an even greater cherrypicker![/quote]

Jeez there's more of you

[WildWaylon]

Based on what he has achieved. I’d say he is the greatest fighter of my generation.

To have moved through so many weights, fighting dominant guys at each weight proves beyond doubt his greatness.
Some people could possibly question if the guys he has fought have been at the top of their game. But the manner in which he has brushed them aside is more telling.

My generation, why dont you all ffffffffffffff fade away, my generation yeah.

[lvlarc]

To be honest I think Pacquiao easily makes a top 20 all time list and already has a good case for top 10. I agree with ArtofWar, fighters of past eras are often held in high regard when there's really not much footage. Plus it seems to be the fashion nowadays to appreicate fighters more once they have been retired for a few years....

It's not just who Pacquiao has beaten, but how he has dominated whilst moving up the weights. He doesn't take many soft fights either to adjust to new weight. His first fights at 125:Barrera (followed by Marquez!) 130:Morales. 140:Oscar (followed by Hatton!) 147:Cotto. Compare this to Mayweather's 135:Augustus. 140:Corley...147:Mitchell.

Barrera
Morales
Marquez
Hatton
Cotto

All 5 of these fighters could be found on most top 10 P4P lists when Manny faced them and with the exception of Marquez, Manny won in style. With the possibilty of Mayweather being next up, (Pacman wins decisively IMO) it could be said that he'd had beaten (in all likelyhood) 4 future hall of famers, on the trot. Can the same be said for any other fighter in history?

[jamesmcdonnell]

To be honest I think Pacquiao easily makes a top 20 all time list and already has a good case for top 10. I agree with ArtofWar, fighters of past eras are often held in high regard when there's really not much footage. Plus it seems to be the fashion nowadays to appreicate fighters more once they have been retired for a few years....

It's not just who Pacquiao has beaten, but how he has dominated whilst moving up the weights. He doesn't take many soft fights either to adjust to new weight. His first fights at 125:Barrera (followed by Marquez!) 130:Morales. 140:Oscar (followed by Hatton!) 147:Cotto. Compare this to Mayweather's 135:Augustus. 140:Corley...147:Mitchell.

Barrera
Morales
Marquez
Hatton
Cotto

All 5 of these fighters could be found on most top 10 P4P lists when Manny faced them and with the exception of Marquez, Manny won in style. With the possibilty of Mayweather being next up, (Pacman wins decisively IMO) it could be said that he'd had beaten (in all likelyhood) 4 future hall of famers, on the trot. Can the same be said for any other fighter in history?

Yes what really impresses is that Marquez aside (and even he was dropped three times in the first round), Pacman has destroyed his opposition by and large, which for a fighter moving up through the weights is most unusual.

I cannot think of anyone since Hearns who has carried their power up like Pacman.

[Carbo]

To be honest I think Pacquiao easily makes a top 20 all time list and already has a good case for top 10. I agree with ArtofWar, fighters of past eras are often held in high regard when there's really not much footage. Plus it seems to be the fashion nowadays to appreicate fighters more once they have been retired for a few years....

It's not just who Pacquiao has beaten, but how he has dominated whilst moving up the weights. He doesn't take many soft fights either to adjust to new weight. His first fights at 125:Barrera (followed by Marquez!) 130:Morales. 140:Oscar (followed by Hatton!) 147:Cotto. Compare this to Mayweather's 135:Augustus. 140:Corley...147:Mitchell.

Barrera
Morales
Marquez
Hatton
Cotto

All 5 of these fighters could be found on most top 10 P4P lists when Manny faced them and with the exception of Marquez, Manny won in style. With the possibilty of Mayweather being next up, (Pacman wins decisively IMO) it could be said that he'd had beaten (in all likelyhood) 4 future hall of famers, on the trot. Can the same be said for any other fighter in history?

Yes what really impresses is that Marquez aside (and even he was dropped three times in the first round), Pacman has destroyed his opposition by and large, which for a fighter moving up through the weights is most unusual.

I cannot think of anyone since Hearns who has carried their power up like Pacman.

Hearns definitely carried up his power -- and that's a very good point that Pacquaio isn't the only boxer to ever carry up his power.

I actually think that Pacquaio has been tighter at the weight than people realize until he stepped up.

He told Roach that Diaz would be his last fight at 135 before he even fought there.

I think 140 is really natural for him now.

He has legs almost like Naseem.

[Lenny]

You obviously no nothing about this sport.

Obviously

[chesh]

To be honest I think Pacquiao easily makes a top 20 all time list and already has a good case for top 10. I agree with ArtofWar, fighters of past eras are often held in high regard when there's really not much footage. Plus it seems to be the fashion nowadays to appreicate fighters more once they have been retired for a few years....

It's not just who Pacquiao has beaten, but how he has dominated whilst moving up the weights. He doesn't take many soft fights either to adjust to new weight. His first fights at 125:Barrera (followed by Marquez!) 130:Morales. 140:Oscar (followed by Hatton!) 147:Cotto. Compare this to Mayweather's 135:Augustus. 140:Corley...147:Mitchell.

Barrera
Morales
Marquez
Hatton
Cotto

All 5 of these fighters could be found on most top 10 P4P lists when Manny faced them and with the exception of Marquez, Manny won in style. With the possibilty of Mayweather being next up, (Pacman wins decisively IMO) it could be said that he'd had beaten (in all likelyhood) 4 future hall of famers, on the trot. Can the same be said for any other fighter in history?

Yes what really impresses is that Marquez aside (and even he was dropped three times in the first round), Pacman has destroyed his opposition by and large, which for a fighter moving up through the weights is most unusual.

I cannot think of anyone since Hearns who has carried their power up like Pacman.

Hearns definitely carried up his power -- and that's a very good point that Pacquaio isn't the only boxer to ever carry up his power.

I actually think that Pacquaio has been tighter at the weight than people realize until he stepped up.

He told Roach that Diaz would be his last fight at 135 before he even fought there.

I think 140 is really natural for him now.

He has legs almost like Naseem.

Very good point. In his last fight at 130 (MAB II), he entered the ring at 146, a weight he barely exceeds even as a welter. Amazing that he could weight-drain without any adverse effect on his performance, although he did seem merely to coast in that second Barrera fight.

[danieljenkins]

nowhere near top 20 yet IMO.

x2

[Top Dog]

nowhere near top 20 yet IMO.

fuckssake what has the guy got to do to be top twenty, tell you what, never mind top 20 the guy is better than Duran, Hagler, and sugar ray, top 5 of all time. ALL these Willie Pep character couldnt lace the wee mans boots, too many people think of these old fighters with rose tinted glasses, Pac would demolish them

[Top Dog]

Before anyone else comeS on giving it, Willie Pep etc blah blah, take a GOOD look at his record, he fought more journeyman than anyone else did in the world ever, man 90 percent of these guys were pure donkeys, if not more. If todays fighters had records like that we would rip them to bits Even Greb had lots of fighters who had tons more loses than wins, ROSE TINTED GLASSES FOR SURE. Back then if you had a smidgen of talent and fotness it went a long way, most of the guys back then were booth fighters I.M.O.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Before anyone else comeS on giving it, Willie Pep etc blah blah, take a GOOD look at his record, he fought more journeyman than anyone else did in the world ever, man 90 percent of these guys were pure donkeys, if not more. If todays fighters had records like that we would rip them to bits Even Greb had lots of fighters who had tons more loses than wins, ROSE TINTED GLASSES FOR SURE. Back then if you had a smidgen of talent and fotness it went a long way, most of the guys back then were booth fighters I.M.O.

Fighters tended to have a lot more losses back then because they were less protected, and fought much more regularly - often at very short notice and without having seen their opponent.

It was so much harder to stay unbeaten back then.

Can you imagine what kind of record SRR would have had in todays era, probably something like 80-2-1. He would have fought nowhere near as often, been able to cherry pick, and would have been retired at 34 with tens of millions in the bank.

[banjo]

They also didn't have the TV money in those days and had to fight often to get a wage, winnings were peanuts back then.

[THEBUTCH]

I couldn't say where exactly Pacquiao rates, but it must be very high.

He's something very special indeed. He doesn't just get the win, it's how he does it.

I'm sure he could still make lightweight, but he's reached the stage where he needs to fight Welterweights to get a real challenge, and even then he's just battered an awesome Welterweight to a comprehensive defeat.

He's a living legend, enjoy him while he's around. 8)

[jamesmcdonnell]

They also didn't have the TV money in those days and had to fight often to get a wage, winnings were peanuts back then.

Yes, exactly, that's my point, Robinson fought so many times because he had to, promoters really ran the shop back then, and fighters didn't have anythiing like the power in negotiations they do now.