Calzaghe vs Echols?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Jan 2005, 12:41

bugs wrote:Not sure that I see Kessler, Larsson or Green as particularly better than Echols.

Green is more dangerous and the other two guys are nearer the top of their game.

bugs · Post by **bugs** » 04 Jan 2005, 12:45

I dont think there is too much between the super middles, Calzaghe stands above them all, Lacy looks reasonable then there are a load of reasonable, but not oustanding fighters behind them.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Jan 2005, 12:47

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, Sheika was supposedly 'shot' and just took Lacy the distance.

Shot is a word which is very much overused, and I don't feel it applies in this case.

Very true, perhaps Echols' isn't shot - but then he is not particularly good. He was lucky vs Brewer IMO, showed excellent heart but in my opinion was in far worse condition than Brewer was at the end. Brewer got careless and tagged.

He lost his last fight vs Mundine, who has lost to a fight who has since lost also. We talk about Echols' power, but Mundine took his shots and yet Ottke stopped him. Lets not forget for the most part of his career, Echols fought at Middleweight.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 04 Jan 2005, 13:54

sorry guys, but doesn´t he has to fight vs Veit next?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 04 Jan 2005, 13:59

BubiScholz wrote:sorry guys, but doesn´t he has to fight vs Veit next?

I dont think so, he just fought a mandatory against Salem.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 04 Jan 2005, 14:15

steve689 wrote:I agree with Goz, even though it's not the worst possible fight available it's just another one of those contests that if made you just feel a little bit let down by the whole thing, there doesn't seem to be a real element of danger...a 50/50 feel, it is always stacked heavily in Calzaghe's favour to win. He needs a challenge badly to reignite his career, if it was Larsen, Kessler, Green, Lacy etc going in there i would be more forgiving but this is a "nothing" fight for me if it is eventually made...Calzaghe UD12 Echols.

Agree with this wholeheartedly (well, almost. I think Calzaghe could get the job done inside the distance, should this one happen). It is another safe option against another fighter past his best. Echols isn't shot by any means, but he isn't exactly a man in his fighting prime either. This isn't the kind of fight that Calzaghe needs, if he is to finally prove himself it needs to be against fighters in their prime, and preferably those with actual world titles. Sadly, it's my belief that Joe feels he has already proven himself, and doesn't need to do anything more to be remembered as a great.

My T Sharp · Post by **My T Sharp** » 04 Jan 2005, 15:41

BubiScholz wrote:sorry guys, but doesn´t he has to fight vs Veit next?

I thought so...Echols isn't ranked by the WBO, so it will probably be non-title?

Spreadking · Post by **Spreadking** » 04 Jan 2005, 16:46

Echols was rated # 4 by ring magazine. imagine if he was # 3, we could have a fight for the RING championship at 168

Echols chased Mundine around, and couldn't land a solid punch all night.
Mundine busted Echols face up with his counters, but never wobbled him.

Is Calzaghe as fast moving in circles as Mundine ? I don't think so.
It makes for a good fight, since Echols has very good punching power. I still like Calzaghe to stop Echols in the mid to late rounds if he comes in, in serious condition. If not, then a rocky decision win.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 04 Jan 2005, 16:50

My T Sharp wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:sorry guys, but doesn´t he has to fight vs Veit next?
I thought so...Echols isn't ranked by the WBO, so it will probably be non-title?

I doubt that. He'll more likely appear in their next rankings that happens all the time with the WBO.

My T Sharp · Post by **My T Sharp** » 04 Jan 2005, 17:01

007 wrote:
My T Sharp wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:sorry guys, but doesn´t he has to fight vs Veit next?
I thought so...Echols isn't ranked by the WBO, so it will probably be non-title?

I doubt that. He'll more likely appear in their next rankings that happens all the time with the WBO.

just noticed that he's ranked at middleweight...number 12, that'll be good enough for a Calzaghe match.

coneye · Post by **coneye** » 04 Jan 2005, 21:07

MightyWarrior wrote:Well it's a helluva lot better than Veit 2, that's for certain.

And why is Echols now a shot fighter? I don't see it. A shot fighter is one whose legs and reflexes have gone.
He's only lost to Hop and Mundine in the last 5 years - Hop being the only guy to ever stop him.
And just because a safetly first Mundine out boxed him in Oz, does not make the guy shot. One paced maybe, but not shot.
Joe would probably try to blast him, as usual, and it could be a very good fight. I reckon the American is still probably one of the hardest hitters around....
Now whether is actualy happens or not.....that's another, alleged, story.

Ok so shot may be the wrong word , but well past his use by date is not , he could'nt catch Mundine in a fit he' fought and produced power in his prime at middlweight, a defining fight for Joe would be Green -Mundine - Lacy plus a few others but Echols definetly not.

Mind you if there spys in the gym suggest Echols is getting it together for one last shot it will fall through. The one i would like to see his Green versus Joe , styles make fights and the styles of these two makes for a cracker.

Who would win , my belieive is Joe, Green has had a couple of good years but stayed ameteur for too long

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 04 Jan 2005, 22:26

Saw the Brewer vs Veit fight tonight and Brewer was most definately shot. His legs from the 1st bell had a wooded look to them similar to Juuko's against Gomez. Veit shook him up every time he landed and Veit is not a puncher.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 05 Jan 2005, 06:22

Bloody hell mate I wouldn't exactly compare Brewer to Juuko. He looked a bit static but still plenty strong enough. I thought Veit looked pretty bloody good in there, he's a solid operator now.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 05 Jan 2005, 07:09

coneye wrote: Ok so shot may be the wrong word , but well past his use by date is not , he could'nt catch Mundine in a fit he' fought and produced power in his prime at middlweight, a defining fight for Joe would be Green -Mundine - Lacy plus a few others but Echols definetly not.

Mind you if there spys in the gym suggest Echols is getting it together for one last shot it will fall through. The one i would like to see his Green versus Joe , styles make fights and the styles of these two makes for a cracker.

Who would win , my belieive is Joe, Green has had a couple of good years but stayed ameteur for too long

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't call this alleged matchup a can't miss affair - but I was expecting the usual SN deal - ie Joe vs someone from the back-of-beyond - a mystery man, even inside his own training camp.

At least I know Echols is fringe world class, and can punch a bit too. Joe's last two opponents had absolutely NOTHING going for them, really.

And yes, the fights I'd love to see Calzaghe in are Green and Lacy - or any of the other champs for that matter.

But his promoter seems incapable of staging any type of unification match, unless it's of the W "B" level variety - ie costs around £250, plus next one is free.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » 05 Jan 2005, 17:21

Calzaghe stands above them all???

Of the top 15 Supermiddles I can think of, Calzaghe’s only faced two of them and those victories are tainted.

He should give Mitchell & Reid a rematch instead of fighting a middleweight.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 05 Jan 2005, 18:46

calzaghe is probably scared stiff of reid. But reid is shot now so it's more likely he'd get a rematch. Mitchell doesn't deserve a rematch, the stoppage was about 1 second premature, but byron would have got clattered again, he was on rubber legs.

incidentally what the hell is reid doing? why doesn't he at least keep busy with an easy defence of his new fake title?

Blue · Post by **Blue** » 06 Jan 2005, 00:03

JOE was clattered & on rubber legs when he got HIS lucky punch in.

Take a look at Mitchell’s record.

He deserves a rematch as much as Reid & more than Veit.
Echols is a middleweight and has already been beaten by Mundine

so I guess he does qualify.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 06 Jan 2005, 05:38

Blue wrote: JOE was clattered

True.

Blue wrote:& on rubber legs when he got HIS lucky punch in.

False.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Jan 2005, 06:38

Blue wrote: JOE was clattered & on rubber legs when he got HIS lucky punch in.
Take a look at Mitchell’s record. He deserves a rematch as much as Reid & more than Veit.
Echols is a middleweight and has already been beaten by Mundine so I guess he does qualify.

What nonsense. Joe got up at 2 when he was dropped, and as soon as the fight resumed started drilling Mitchell. If he was on Rubber legs, he wouldn't have been able to fire back like that.

Mitchell when he got up looked hurt and wobbly, and was under heavy fire when the referee stepped in.

Big difference.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Jan 2005, 07:55

Not exactly James,

Joe was being backed up by Mitchell when he found his punch. Mitchell landed a shot BETWEEN the two KD's that hurt Joe (his legs dipped). I wouldn't say he was on wobbly legs, but he wasn't "right" also.

Was Joe's punch lucky? Yes, he knew nothing about it - was just wailing away and one landed.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Jan 2005, 07:59

Kilburn wrote:Bloody hell mate I wouldn't exactly compare Brewer to Juuko. He looked a bit static but still plenty strong enough. I thought Veit looked pretty bloody good in there, he's a solid operator now.

No, only Ali vs Holmes and Michael Ayers vs Honney compare with Juuko as the most "overnight" shot fighter I have seen. However, Brewer was pretty terrible also. He wasn't moving right and it was obvious from the opening bell that he shouldn't be in a boxing ring.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Jan 2005, 08:46

stujones wrote:Not exactly James,

Joe was being backed up by Mitchell when he found his punch. Mitchell landed a shot BETWEEN the two KD's that hurt Joe (his legs dipped). I wouldn't say he was on wobbly legs, but he wasn't "right" also.

Was Joe's punch lucky? Yes, he knew nothing about it - was just wailing away and one landed.

Well I reckon that Joe knew where his hands were and where Mitchell's head was, so Lucky isn't quite right.

There is no way you can say that Mitchell wasn't far more badly hurt when the stoppage came, than Calzaghe was when he got up from his knockdown. When Mitchell got up he was fucked, and when Calzaghe started drilling him, his eyes rolled backwards into his head.

Calzaghe was hurt, Mitchell was hurt, but the fact his Calzaghe was ok enough to knock Mitchell down and then pile into him when he got up.

The stoppage was fine in my book, and not because Calzaghe was British, I'm not biased like that.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 06 Jan 2005, 08:53

I agree. Mitchell was badly hurt and taking a shallacking it wasnt a bad stoppage at all.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 06 Jan 2005, 09:20

For definition of overnight "shot fighters" check Terry Norris and John Mugabi.
From being one of the worlds most feared fighters, the Beast suddenly didn't have any legs under him and Norris blasted him out in a round.
( The rumours were that years of syphilis had caught up with him big time).
He was like a lamb to the slaughter when they brought him in for McClellan a year later - he could barely walk on his way to the ring that night.

Ironically, the brilliant Norris seemed to suddenly go the same way a few years later, starting with the first Simon Brown fight: he could hardly keep his legs under him, and Brown floored him with a jab a few times.
He managed to win his title back, and kept going a few years, but his opponents weren't up to much, and he was never as great as he'd been before the Brown loss.
He went on far too long in the end, much like another fighter of his time who neared greatness, Meldrick Taylor.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 06 Jan 2005, 09:35

And Calzaghe had Mitchell's number that night - no way was the American coming back from that.
Blue is just jealous, as they don't have any decent supermiddles in America.