Terry D wrote:Top Dog wrote:
Manny's big wins: Oscar, Cotto, Hatton, Marquez, Barrera and Morales.
Ray Robinson's big wins: Zivic, LaMotta, Henry Armstrong, Gavilan, Turpin, Graziano, Fullmer and Basilio.
Throw in some decent mid-level guys and both guys have nice resumes, but Ray's is better overall. Both also have some filler in there but, as explained once already, there was a reason why Ray took interim fights. You can't do like-for-like across the eras so you have to use commonsense, Jimmy tried to introduce you to it but you missed your cue.
Similarly, at this point Floyd has beaten the likes of Oscar, Marquez, Hatton, Corrales and Hernandez, winning a ton of alphabet belts in the process. Not bad for 40+ fights. However, by fight 30ish Ray Leonard had taken on, and defeated, Benitez, Duran, Kalule (an underrated win), Hearns and Hagler, winning the legitimate welterweight and middleweight crowns in the process. Those names piss on Floyd's run as Ray defeated at least two, maybe three, genuine all-timers.
Floyd and Manny are the top dogs of this era but they need one another to really step it up. If you put Manny top five then what happens next? Floyd beats him and becomes top three, arguably number one? That is nonsense. Floyd is a long way off the top spot of all time.
The Cotto win was good, but Miguel is not an all-timer, he is a big, strong boxer with solid skills and fundamentals who has looked on the wane in recent fights and had to trim a few extra lb off his frame. Try to get a wee bit of perspective, and maybe judge Manny and Floyd once they've fought once another, and retired.[/quote
Ok, lets look at the records then.
AS you say
Manny: Oscar, Cotto, Hatton, JMM, Barrera, Morales.
SRR: Zizic, Lamotta, Gavilan, Turpin, Graziano
You made me win the discussion there, cause ALL of SRR guys had a lot more loses than Mannys guys!!! Gavilan, 30 loses, Lamotta 19 loses, Graziano was beaten numerous times before SRR beat him.
Comparing the old fighters is like comparing Jessie Owens to Usain Bolt, night and day in fitness terms.
Manny would have beaten SRR and Gavilan, Graziano, etc etc etc I.M.O. OF COURSE 
Nowt to do with loses on the records. I have these things called eyes, they are linked to my brain, which is fairly decent, and this processes images and whatnot. Gavilan is a better boxer than Oscar, bigger all time legacy also. Cotto is a decent fighter in this era but won't trouble anyone's all-time lists. Barrera and Morales will but they'd half killed one another by the time Manny got to them, and Morales out-boxed Manny in the first fight. LaMotta was the best at what he did. Zivic was a fine fighter.
All excuses aside, if Marquez can make MAnny look like a c*nt for night on 15+ plus rounds, Morales can out-box him and Cotto trouble him, and he did, then Ray Robinson would hammer him, problems early, maybe, but he would hammer Manny at welterweight. Any fool know that.
This is not counting by the way. You may have lost your job recently but do what the other fine looking women on TV do when they need some dough, get your baps out for the lads mags. Over to you, Carol.[/quote]
Jesus, Robinson would have ripped Manny to shreds at welterweight, Mannys doing very well, but Mayweather who is possibly the best Welterweight out there at the moment, would no way have been competitive with Robinson.
D Heh stop with the black thing, I'm pretty sure Manny doesnt say "I aint fighting him cause he's black"