McGuigan in the 2005 IBHOF inductees!

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 07 Jan 2005, 10:27

At this rate, the 2020 inductees will John Ruiz, Golota, Hatton....

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 07 Jan 2005, 10:35

All jokes aside, I`d imagine those names in before even then, probably be any unbeaten 8rnd fighter by 2020

:(

Boxingmad · Post by **Boxingmad** » 07 Jan 2005, 10:46

Manos de Oro wrote:Regards Terry Norris: he's still very popular in the US. He got absolutely mobbed in the MGM Grand mall when people where cramming out from DLH - Hop. So much so he had to take shelter in a clothes shop. I didn't recognise him at first as his head was completely shaved bald, and in all honesty when I think of him I picture his face as it was in his 90's hey-day. People were clamouring for their picture with him. Unfortunately I was practicing stealth photography with all the fit latina birds milling around to queue for a picture, but one thing I will say is that he didn't look one pound over the jr middleweight limit. In fact, he honestly could've passed for a welterweight. And he didn't look frail, looked ripped. Must still train.

I seem to recall that Terry Norris used to be able to benchpress 300lbs or the equivalent of a whole benchpress in a gym. really really strong. Great fighter too. Looked sensational when he stopped Meldrick Taylor in 1992, and Maurice Blocker in 1993 in front of 130, 000 fans in Mexico, who were there to watch J C Chavez beat Greg Haugen. Blocker was ripped apart in two rounds.

I'd like to get out to Canastota too.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Jan 2005, 10:52

MightyWarrior wrote:Burley was the "Colored welterweight champion" though, so I don't imagine he got too many favours in his time.

I think the way it ran then was that if you were with the right people, you're colour wasn't a bar, but if you weren't you were going to have problems.

Robinson was thought of by many as the best welterweight in the world for five years before he got a shot, Archie Moore had to wait until he was 39 to get his, but was probably a better fighter for it.

People talk about boxing's golden age, but it was totally corrupt during a lot of this time. Makes todays scene look totally down the line.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 07 Jan 2005, 11:04

Archie Moore fought tougher opponents before his title shot.
About him getting better with age, I think if you look at the people he did lose against early in his career these were quality fighters.
In his autobiographt he says the best fighters he faced were Burley and I think Holman Williams was the other, Rocky Marciano he says beat him when he was an old man.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Jan 2005, 11:13

I've never seen the whole fight, but he also claimed that the referee gave Rocky an age to recover after he dropped him, checking him over and stepping between the two when Archie tried to leap in and finish him.

What I mean about Archie, is that his long 'road warrior' career (makes Glen Johnson look housebound, especially as they had to take ships to get to Australia back then), meant that when he finally got his shot, he'd seen and done it all, and fought just about every type of opponent.

I just read his autobiography, and it's remarkable what he achieved, his career almost ended because of some intestinal infection which almost killed him, he had to be operated on several times and was out of action for ages.

It just goes to show you, that age need not be as much of a barrier, if a fighter is an all around fighter. I picked Johnson over Tarver because I knew that despite all the fights, Glen can do a bit of everything, and has the hunger the old timers had because he's still not made much money yet.

The best fighter archie mentioned in the book I read (Archie Moore, by himself, written when he was stilll active), was someone I'd never heard of.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 07 Jan 2005, 11:37

The book I read is `ABC Any Boy Can`.
The names on his early career are fighters who could all have gained great success in today’s times, Jimmy Bivins, Holman Williams, Shorty Hogue, Eddie Booker, Jack Chase, Lloyd Marshall, Louis Hardwick, Bert Lytell and Charley Burley..what a list.

And there are good opponents on his record I haven`t mentioned.
Look at the world champions who reigned at the time Archie was fighting these and you will notice these were the names they were avoiding.
Its been mentioned before but what if Ezzard Charles could have got a title shot early in his career, Ray Robinson would never now hold the Greatest Ever tag.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Jan 2005, 11:47

Ezzard must have been a hell of a fighter. He started as a middleweight, and for most of his career was really like a modern super middleweight. Today, his fight with Marciano when he cut him to ribbons would have been stopped without a doubt, his nose was cut down to the bone.

Moore claimed that one of the defeats to Charles was a dodgy decision. I doubt any of their fights were televised, but Charles knocked him out once if I recall rightly, which is some achievement.

Moore is one of my all time favourite fighters, though I've seen little of him, his achievements are amazing, and he seems like he was quite a character, I would have loved to have sat and had a brandy and a cigar with the man.

In the book I read, he had a breakdown of his training diet, and the guy was well ahead of his time, his diet was very much like the atkins diet, I might even try it out.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 07 Jan 2005, 11:53

Boxingmad wrote:
Manos de Oro wrote:Regards Terry Norris: he's still very popular in the US. He got absolutely mobbed in the MGM Grand mall when people where cramming out from DLH - Hop. So much so he had to take shelter in a clothes shop. I didn't recognise him at first as his head was completely shaved bald, and in all honesty when I think of him I picture his face as it was in his 90's hey-day. People were clamouring for their picture with him. Unfortunately I was practicing stealth photography with all the fit latina birds milling around to queue for a picture, but one thing I will say is that he didn't look one pound over the jr middleweight limit. In fact, he honestly could've passed for a welterweight. And he didn't look frail, looked ripped. Must still train.
I seem to recall that Terry Norris used to be able to benchpress 300lbs or the equivalent of a whole benchpress in a gym. really really strong. Great fighter too. Looked sensational when he stopped Meldrick Taylor in 1992, and Maurice Blocker in 1993 in front of 130, 000 fans in Mexico, who were there to watch J C Chavez beat Greg Haugen. Blocker was ripped apart in two rounds.

I'd like to get out to Canastota too.

Wow, 300lbs? Didn't know that.

Yeah, I remember he used his reach well and setup some really nice right hands (that eventually did Taylor). Meldrick's ring getup in that fight was truly shocking. Tarzan style, IIRC.

The Blocker fight was a savage beating if I'm thinking of the same fight.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 07 Jan 2005, 12:01

Was that his secret aborigine diet?
Chew and spit.

Reading his book shows just what a great bloke Archie was.
Reading about the likes of these types of men who witnessed and endured the racism of the day and rose above it really is something else.

Ezzard beat Burley when Burley was the best middle about then, even though Burley was only a heavy welter.
Ezzard is one of my favourite boxers, shame there is not more film on him.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 07 Jan 2005, 13:54

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Isn't Charley Burley in there though, and he never won a world title.

Yes he is, I think he was inducted in 1992.

Boxingnut · Post by **Boxingnut** » 08 Jan 2005, 08:34

Am I correct in saying there are still no Korean boxers in the hall of fame? Surely the likes of Jung Koo Chang and Myung Woo Yuh are worthy inductees?

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 08 Jan 2005, 09:53

If McGuigan gets in then Hamed should, but he won't. Best feather of the 90's. Come on Gatti? Exciting fighter sure but no way in hell should he be in the hall.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 08 Jan 2005, 10:00

I may be wrong here but I think Leon Spinks is the only World Heavyweight Champion not in the IBHOF.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Jan 2005, 10:30

KOJOE90 wrote:I may be wrong here but I think Leon Spinks is the only World Heavyweight Champion not in the IBHOF.

I think you are wrong, unless you mean "undisputed" champion. Frank Bruno is eligable as is Pinklon Thomas, Trevor Berbick and a few others.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 08 Jan 2005, 12:57

stujones wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:I may be wrong here but I think Leon Spinks is the only World Heavyweight Champion not in the IBHOF.
I think you are wrong, unless you mean "undisputed" champion. Frank Bruno is eligable as is Pinklon Thomas, Trevor Berbick and a few others.

I meant Undisputed.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 09 Jan 2005, 09:07

007 wrote:Hardly. He did a fantastic job with the PBA.

Is the PBA still going?

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 09 Jan 2005, 14:03

Former Boxing News editor Harry Mullan is also indicted - a great honour for a great man. Boxing News is massively respected in the States because of its history and independence, and this honour reflects his hard-hitting, fearless legacy. He took on the big boys and never stopped punching. He bolstered a young allegedly and helped make him this country's No. 1 promoter (how soon they forget).
And he never ridiculed those who couldn't hold a candle to his writing.
What a shame he won't be there in June. He was only 53 when he died five years ago.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 09 Jan 2005, 14:39

5yrs ago, I didn`t even know he died.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 09 Jan 2005, 14:43

bennie wrote: He was only 53 when he died five years ago.

53, that's younger than my dad! I didn't realise he was so young.

Very sad.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 09 Jan 2005, 14:47

Come on guys, lets get this in context.

IBHOF does a great job in acting as guardians of the legacy of boxing. It's all about the history of boxing which is so fascinating and which draws us in as fans. And history is about stories. And Barry Mcguigan was a great story. A genuinely world class fighter who beat an undisputed all time great. A unifying force in the midst of the troubles. Even the way he lost the title and his contribution to boxing after his retirement add to the story. And what an exciting fighter to watch. If you ask the name of a boxer on the streets of London today, he'd still be frequently mentioned. Of course he is a worthy inductee.

The inductees should always be a mix of the truly great, those with outstanding records and achievements, those who took part in some of the greatest fights, those whom the fans loved and those who, for however brief a period, transcended the boundaries of the sport. That is the history of boxing.

zurdo · Post by **zurdo** » 09 Jan 2005, 15:08

Sorry, Irish and English fight fans

But there is no way Barry McGuigan should be in the hall of fame.
Simply based
He lost the title in his second defense and his whole pro career was less than 40 fights..
Barry was a game exiting battler who had a terrific fight against an aged Pedroza.
And he is a really good guy
But he is not a hall of famer..

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 09 Jan 2005, 15:14

zurdo wrote:Sorry, Irish and English fight fans

But there is no way Barry McGuigan should be in the hall of fame.
Simply based
He lost the title in his second defense and his whole pro career was less than 40 fights..
Barry was a game exiting battler who had a terrific fight against an aged Pedroza.
And he is a really good guy
But he is not a hall of famer..

Well actually, he WILL be a hall of famer. You left out the preface "in my humble, man in the street, for what its worth, opinion."

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 09 Jan 2005, 15:16

It's true that he shouldn't be in the HOF.

Pedrosa was a faded great. McGuigan then got badly stopped vs a journeyman. He was a good fighter, but not a great one. He never seriously wanted Azumah either. I've read that he never did that fight any favours.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jan 2005, 15:24

Truth of the matter is also, they HAVE to induct people every year, which is going to water down the criteria over time.

McGuigan was an enormously popular fighter at the time which gives him a bit of an advantage I think.

He was obviously one of the most deserving at the time of the ballots.