Today is Thanksgiving but tomorrow is when our favorite Thanksgiving tradition begins. The day after Thanksgivings breakfast. All the leftovers: ham, turkey, mashed potatoes, and stuffing get fried up (separately) and served with some fried eggs and gravy with some rolls or biscuits.
This is the way I grew up eating. Later when I was raising my family I did the same thing. When my kids got old enough they would get up early and have everything ready for us. It may not be the healthiest breakfast but it's only once a year. When I'm thinking ahead to Thanksgiving this is at the forefront of my thoughts.
I have not really eaten much the past week and did not have my usual appetite but I enjoyed my dinner. After the Turkey, the stuffing is my favorite part. There was lots of food and wine today. I feel content.
Classic American West Coast Boxing
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I did Chuck, thank you. I hope you did as well.Chuck1052 wrote:Hope that everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.
Rick and Randy- Based on what I have seen so far, it is my feeling that Victor Ortiz doesn't have the mental makeup to be a fighter, which means I tend to agree with both of you.
- Chuck Johnston
Regarding Ortiz, he may fool us yet but I doubt it. I do give him credit for one thing and that is doing something that appears to be against his true nature. I honestly don't think Boxing is his true cup of tea.In this day and age he may very well become a champion but we know what that means. In another era, a sparring partner at best.
Randy
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Mel Epstein on Dempsey . . .
For the life of me, I wish I could remember Mel Epstein's exact words when referring to Jack Dempsey.
Mel talked a lot about Dempsey, almost as much as he did his own fighter, Young Firpo.
He was in one of Dempsey's training camps. He spoke of Doc Kearns, and of Dempsey's trainer, Teddy Hayes.
He was a part of the moment, Mel was. His respect for Jack Dempsey had no equal. Mel spoke of Dempsey with God-like respect.
"They think this Ali is fast? You shoulda seen Dempsey! Dempsey was fast, and he'd take your head off."
Mel talked of Kearns and a few of his antics relating to Dempsey, but mostly about his management of Mickey Walker, whom Young Firpo was anxious to fight.
Kearns knew that was a bad fight for the World Middleweight Champ, so a match was never made. Elsewhere was more money, less risk.
Mel talked about Estelle Taylor, how she "ruined Dempsey, the dumb bastid!"
I wish I could remember more. A few years back, I struggled to recall everything Mel had shared with me about Young Firpo. A lot came back to me, but I wish I had all of it.
In L.A. Dempsey lived on Western Ave. in what was once an upscale neighborhood. Today it's just a "hood".
Later, after marrying Estelle Taylor, he lived on Los Feliz at the foot of Griffith Park. He had 15 acres of real estate that is still prime Hollywood Hills property.
He paid $150,000 for it in the 20's. If it was today what it was then, it would be worth over $40 million in this bad market. However, it was sub-divided decades ago.
His hotel, "The Barbara", still sits on 6th St. near the corner of Alvarado. Today it's called the Barbizon. If those walls could speak.
Dempsey is on my mind today. Thanks, Rog.
-Rick Farris
For the life of me, I wish I could remember Mel Epstein's exact words when referring to Jack Dempsey.
Mel talked a lot about Dempsey, almost as much as he did his own fighter, Young Firpo.
He was in one of Dempsey's training camps. He spoke of Doc Kearns, and of Dempsey's trainer, Teddy Hayes.
He was a part of the moment, Mel was. His respect for Jack Dempsey had no equal. Mel spoke of Dempsey with God-like respect.
"They think this Ali is fast? You shoulda seen Dempsey! Dempsey was fast, and he'd take your head off."
Mel talked of Kearns and a few of his antics relating to Dempsey, but mostly about his management of Mickey Walker, whom Young Firpo was anxious to fight.
Kearns knew that was a bad fight for the World Middleweight Champ, so a match was never made. Elsewhere was more money, less risk.
Mel talked about Estelle Taylor, how she "ruined Dempsey, the dumb bastid!"
I wish I could remember more. A few years back, I struggled to recall everything Mel had shared with me about Young Firpo. A lot came back to me, but I wish I had all of it.
In L.A. Dempsey lived on Western Ave. in what was once an upscale neighborhood. Today it's just a "hood".
Later, after marrying Estelle Taylor, he lived on Los Feliz at the foot of Griffith Park. He had 15 acres of real estate that is still prime Hollywood Hills property.
He paid $150,000 for it in the 20's. If it was today what it was then, it would be worth over $40 million in this bad market. However, it was sub-divided decades ago.
His hotel, "The Barbara", still sits on 6th St. near the corner of Alvarado. Today it's called the Barbizon. If those walls could speak.
Dempsey is on my mind today. Thanks, Rog.
-Rick Farris
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Estelle Taylor
Born May 20, 1894
Wilmington, Delaware USA
Died April 15, 1958
Los Angeles, California USA
Occupation Actor
Years active 1919 - 1945
Estelle Taylor (May 20, 1894—April 15, 1958) was an American Hollywood actress whose career was most prominent during the silent film era of the 1920s.
Born Estelle Boylan in Wilmington, Delaware, Taylor married a banker while still a teenager. After relocating to Hollywood, she began taking bit parts in films.
Taylor is possibly best recalled for her roles in the 1922 drama Monte Cristo opposite John Gilbert, the enormously successful 1923 Cecil B. DeMille directed The Ten Commandments as Miriam, the sister of Moses; as Lucrezia Borgia in the 1926 Warner Bros.' first feature-length film with synchronized Vitaphone sound effects and musical soundtrack Don Juan opposite John Barrymore, Mary Astor and Warner Oland, 1927's New York, opposite Ricardo Cortez and Lois Wilson, 1931's Street Scene with Sylvia Sidney and both the Academy Award winning Cimarron and the Clara Bow talkie, Call Her Savage in 1932.
Taylor married heavyweight boxing champion, Jack Dempsey, in 1925. She was supposed to have co-starred in a movie with actor Rudolph Valentino which would have brought her more widespread fame but he died just before production was to begin.
When she divorced Jack in July, 1933 she walked away with $40,000 in cash as well as 3 of their cars and their $150,000 estate. When a fan came up to her for an autographed picture of her, which had Jack's name on top she allegedly wrote: "This is the last time that son-of-a-bitch will be on top of me."
Taylor was a close friend of Mexican-born actress Lupe Vélez, and on the evening of December 13, 1944 she spent several hours at a restaurant having dinner and drinks with the actress before Vélez returned home and committed suicide. The ensuing press coverage briefly propelled Taylor once again into the headlines.
Taylor's last film appearance was in the 1945 Jean Renoir directed drama The Southerner. In her later years, Taylor devoted her free time to her pets and was the president and founder of the California Pet Owners' Protective League. In 1953, Taylor served on the City Animal Regulation Commission in Los Angeles, California.
Taylor died of cancer in 1958 and was interred at Hollywood Forever Cemetery.
For her contribution to the motion picture industry, Estelle Taylor was awarded a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame at 1620 Vine Street in Hollywood, California.
In a 1983 American made-for-television movie biopic of boxer Jack Dempsey, Estelle Taylor was portrayed by British actress Victoria Tennant.
Born May 20, 1894
Wilmington, Delaware USA
Died April 15, 1958
Los Angeles, California USA
Occupation Actor
Years active 1919 - 1945
Estelle Taylor (May 20, 1894—April 15, 1958) was an American Hollywood actress whose career was most prominent during the silent film era of the 1920s.
Born Estelle Boylan in Wilmington, Delaware, Taylor married a banker while still a teenager. After relocating to Hollywood, she began taking bit parts in films.
Taylor is possibly best recalled for her roles in the 1922 drama Monte Cristo opposite John Gilbert, the enormously successful 1923 Cecil B. DeMille directed The Ten Commandments as Miriam, the sister of Moses; as Lucrezia Borgia in the 1926 Warner Bros.' first feature-length film with synchronized Vitaphone sound effects and musical soundtrack Don Juan opposite John Barrymore, Mary Astor and Warner Oland, 1927's New York, opposite Ricardo Cortez and Lois Wilson, 1931's Street Scene with Sylvia Sidney and both the Academy Award winning Cimarron and the Clara Bow talkie, Call Her Savage in 1932.
Taylor married heavyweight boxing champion, Jack Dempsey, in 1925. She was supposed to have co-starred in a movie with actor Rudolph Valentino which would have brought her more widespread fame but he died just before production was to begin.
When she divorced Jack in July, 1933 she walked away with $40,000 in cash as well as 3 of their cars and their $150,000 estate. When a fan came up to her for an autographed picture of her, which had Jack's name on top she allegedly wrote: "This is the last time that son-of-a-bitch will be on top of me."
Taylor was a close friend of Mexican-born actress Lupe Vélez, and on the evening of December 13, 1944 she spent several hours at a restaurant having dinner and drinks with the actress before Vélez returned home and committed suicide. The ensuing press coverage briefly propelled Taylor once again into the headlines.
Taylor's last film appearance was in the 1945 Jean Renoir directed drama The Southerner. In her later years, Taylor devoted her free time to her pets and was the president and founder of the California Pet Owners' Protective League. In 1953, Taylor served on the City Animal Regulation Commission in Los Angeles, California.
Taylor died of cancer in 1958 and was interred at Hollywood Forever Cemetery.
For her contribution to the motion picture industry, Estelle Taylor was awarded a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame at 1620 Vine Street in Hollywood, California.
In a 1983 American made-for-television movie biopic of boxer Jack Dempsey, Estelle Taylor was portrayed by British actress Victoria Tennant.
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Chuck1052 wrote:Hope that everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.
Rick and Randy- Based on what I have seen so far, it is my feeling that Victor Ortiz doesn't have the mental makeup to be a fighter, which means I tend to agree with both of you.
- Chuck Johnston
Chuck . . . Hope your thanksgiving was a good one!
-
Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Interview: Al Fenn (Manager of Zora Folley, Sonny Liston)
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Interview: Al Fenn by Christopher Shelton
(Bill Thompson - of 'Wallace and Ladmo' fame - had told me: "Al Fenn is the man. If you want to know anything about the Arizona boxing scene - he is the man to whom you should speak." There was a time when the World War II vet, Al Fenn, was a major celebrity of this city. Fenn was promoter/manager of most of the amateur Golden Gloves winners of the latter 1950's and early 60's. As a pro manager, Fenn worked with Zora Folley - from Chandler - and they remain to this day as the most successful heavyweight team from our region. This 12/03/08 interview finds me with a spirited Fenn - despite a man on his way to chemotherapy - diagnosed with colon cancer 11 months earlier).
ME: I have learned much about Zora Folley over the last several weeks. You are a real legend and celebrity of Phoenix - yet most Phoenicians are from somewhere else - and are not interested in Phoenix history. They do not seem to know or care that you and Folley nearly teamed up for the heavyweight Championship.
FENN: Well, I tried to train Folley right. Bring him along steady against the right opponents.
ME: These early bouts were in Los Angeles and Clifton , Arizona ?
FENN: Yeagh - we did well. I only wish that I had not matched him against (Johnny) Summerlin. (Folley's first loss - 1955 - Los Angeles). That turned out to be a mistake. Folley was not quite ready for him.
ME: That was one setback - but only a setback as Folley steadily climbed the rankings.
Fenn: Yes - that's true. I put Folley against this muscled guy - a 'Madonis' - what is the word I am looking for?
ME: Adonis.
FENN: That's it - 'Adonis'. This fellow Zanzibar was an Adonis - and I met him in Safford and drove him all the way up to Clifton (September, 1954). The whole way there - Zanzibar had seen nothing like it before. Nothing but desert. Well, Folley knocked out this Adonis, Zanzibar (7th round), and that really impressed some folks. But it was the fight against (Nino) Valdes (September, 1956) that was the big one. This is what placed Folley on the (national) map.
ME: The earliest Phoenix bout that I know of was against K.O. Brown on November 17, 1953. Could you tell me anything about the fight?
FENN: That was at Phoenix Madison Square Garden . All of the major bouts were held there. Of course that wasn't his real name ('K.O. Brown') but we wanted something that sounded right. (TKO win for Folley - as Brown was unable to come out for the 9th round). It was a real loss for the city when they tore down the Garden. The venue was important from a historical perspective. Many memories were lost in its destruction.
ME: Folley was the legitimate #1 contender for the heavyweight Championship throughout 1958. But Cus D'Amato (manager of Champion Floyd Patterson) clearly was avoiding Folley. That must have been frustrating?
FENN: I went so far as to contact our local congressman, Stu Udall. Udall was up in arms about what was happening - like most folks - and he went so far as to promise to introduce a bill in Congress to force Patterson to fight Folley. But as far as I know - Udall had never actually done such a thing.
ME: (I delicately tread with Fenn's biggest mistake - matching Folley in September, 1958, against British heavyweight Champion, Henry Cooper, in England). Could you tell me about the Henry Cooper fight in England ? Folley was clearly the better pugilist - scoring a 2nd round knockout the second time they met (December, 1961). But that first bout gave Cus D'Amato an excuse to allow Patterson to avoid Folley. What happened in England with Cooper and that first decision loss?
FENN: (Disgusted) The English judges robbed Folley down there. Well, you know, you cannot beat one of their fighters by decision in their own backyard.
ME: It appears that Sonny Liston was willing to fight Folley after he won the Championship (September, 1962). But Liston allowed Patterson a rematch - another 1st round knockout - and then fought Ali ('Cassius Clay' at the time) - when he lost the title. Liston's loss was probably Folley's last chance at a title shot in his prime.
FENN: Sonny Liston was the greatest heavyweight of all time. The best that I ever saw. (Liston scored a 3rd round knockout over Folley - July, 1960 - which helped launch Liston to a title bout). Liston made a mistake fighting Ali. Ali was too fast and clever and Liston did not know what to do with him.
ME: But that Liston loss (February, 1964) cost yourself and Folley a title bout.
FENN: Well, Folley yes, but not me. I signed Folley to a 10 year contract in 1953. So that ended in '63'. One of the final things that I did was to buy Folley a house. It had been a financial struggle for years - and I had been against his getting married and settling down.
ME: You did not like Folley's wife - or you thought she would tame him too much?
FENN: No - Folley was never an angry person or had bad habits. I liked his wife. No - I was already paying expenses for one person - and a family meant paying for more. (Laughs). But I wanted to make sure Folley had something when our contract expired - and that is how he wound up with a house. After the changeover to (manager) Bill Swift - I still retained a 3 1/2% interest.
ME: Folley eventually landed his title opportunity (March, 1967) - past his prime (age 35) - against an undefeated Muhammed Ali at his peak. What could you tell me about that bout?
FENN: Folley was not the best boxer. He could hit - but could not take a punch well. Folley had a good, consistent jab with a sneaky hard right. Swift trained him different than Johnny Hart (trainer) and myself. We wanted him to develop better footwork - develop a shuffle.
ME: Like a Jersey Joe Walcott or Ali himself?
FENN: That's right! It turns out that Folley needed this desperately against a guy like Ali. Ali was not the kind of guy that you just take out. If you wanted to beat Ali - you had to take him out in later rounds. To take Ali to later rounds - you needed footwork so that you were not an easy target for him. Folley would also need to train his legs extra hard - along with the footwork - because Ali will be patient and let an opponent wear down. You still need to be moving - and have some kind of defense into the 10th round - if you had any hope of beating Ali.
ME: It is maddening to be a boxing historian and try to explain Ali to others. A major misperception of Ali - in his time and especially today - is that he was vulnerable against sluggers or bigger guys who hit hard. The pugilist who clearly gave Ali (as 'Clay') the most problems during the 1960's was Doug Jones - a fast defensive specialist with patience.
FENN: That's exactly what I am talking about! Folley was not a defensive fighter by nature - but he would have to alter his style or have no chance against Ali. (After the 7th round knockout - Ali spotted Folley's son crying. In a lovely gesture - Ali hugged the boy and told him neither he or anyone would have defeated his Dad had the bout occurred years earlier in Folley's prime).
ME: So you never managed another heavyweight contender after Folley?
FENN: I promoted Sonny Liston briefly towards the end of his career (late 1968). He was still a good fighter at that time. One was in a Juarez (Mexico ) bull ring. Liston won both of those bouts. (A dominant and exciting 3rd round knockout in Phoenix over experienced Sonny Moore was followed by a 2nd round knockout over Willis Earls in Juarez).
ME: The media reputation of Liston was of a scowling thug - sort of a criminal.
FENN: Sonny Liston was a very nice man. Quiet and softspoken.
ME: So the media reputation that Liston was some sort of animal was unfair?
FENN: Well - those other fighters were scared of him. They were beat before they entered the ring against him. Liston encouraged that.
ME: What was Sonny Liston's boxing peak?
FENN: It was before he was Champion when he fought Clevelend Williams. Both were big guys and it was one of the greatest heavyweight bouts ever. (Two TKO wins for Liston against Williams - both within 3 rounds - in 1959 and '60).
ME: What did Sonny Liston like to talk about - boxing or his family?
FENN: It was tough to get Liston to say anything. He was polite - with a 'please' or 'thank you' - but he did not reveal any more of himself than was necessary. Dick Sadler (manager) was the talker of the two.
ME: So your association with Liston did not last long?
FENN: Sometimes Liston fought too heavy and did not train like he should. They (Las Vegas ) got ahold of Liston. He never did the kinds of things that brought him down when I knew him. He was clean. (Liston died of a heroin overdose - age 38 - in December, 1970).
ME: Liston and Folley lived parallel lives - born within 3 weeks of one another - fought their first pro fight within 3 weeks of one another - fought their last pro bout within 3 months of one another - and then died within 18 months of each other.... What could you tell me about Zora Folley's death?
FENN: It appears that it was accidental. I believe it was an accident. I guess Folley was stepping out on his wife. The guy he was with was a professional celebrity hanger on. They were meeting with these two women. I believe that the men began with horseplay - trying to impress the women. Folley pushed the man in the pool. As he did this - he slipped off the ledge and his head hit against the hard surface.
ME: There is much gossip about murder and conspiracy. I believe - because Folley was a good man with a clean reputation - that the police felt it unnecessary to tarnish his local image as a family man. Because the police revealed so few details - except it was an accident - that this fueled the conspiracy rumors.
FENN: Oh - I hear the talk that Folley was murdered. They say it was the husband or boyfriend of one of the women that found them - became jealous - and whacked him. I don't believe it though. I was at the funeral - and his family seemed convinced that the police version - which was told to them privately - was the truth and that it was an accident.
ME: You used the term 'whacked' and this makes me think of the mob - and we are talking about boxing. Has the mob ever threatened you to lose a bout or anything like that?
FENN: The mob threatened both myself and my partner, Dave McCoy. The Nevada mob approached me one day and said that (pugilist) Irving Star belongs to them now.
ME: Is that the only time the mob stole someone from you?
FENN: No - another fighter they wanted was Ray Coleman. (A fast hand speed featherweight who fought out of Phoenix in the early to mid 60's). The mob called and warned me that they would kill Coleman's daughter. I laughed at them: "Ray Coleman does not even have a daughter!"
Me: Could you tell me the name of anyone that was part of the mob?
FENN: An Italian by the name of Ralph Gambina. He worked the Nevada mob scene.
ME: Did you believe that the mob was serious about their threats?
FENN: Well - Dave McCoy was later murdered in Los Angeles . He was suffocated with a pillow and they never solved his murder. I guess that could have been me.
ME: That must have frightened you?
FENN: No. I was sad about what happened to Dave, but not as much as you might think. It is tough to break into the boxing business - and maybe not everything we did was legal. But everything involving the two of us died with him. (Laughs). As far as Irving Star - I warned him that he would regret betraying me - and the mobsters eventually burned him.
ME: Boxing is a pretty sleazy world - so it must be difficult to remain clean and honest?
FENN: I did the best that I could. I have known hundreds of boxers. So many of them were in gangs and their life was headed nowhere. I helped them develop a discipline to their lives - and this in turn led to self confidence. Many of these boxers were Hispanic - and they did not go on to win the title - but they became successful with their lives. So many of them approached me after they had quit boxing and thanked me for helping to turn around their lives.
ME: This must give you tremendous satisfaction?
FENN: Yeagh - boxing is a business - but it turns out to be the human aspects that brought out my best and most lasting memories.
(It is with regret that I conclude with Mr. Fenn's having lost his battle with cancer on February 24, 2009).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interview: Al Fenn by Christopher Shelton
(Bill Thompson - of 'Wallace and Ladmo' fame - had told me: "Al Fenn is the man. If you want to know anything about the Arizona boxing scene - he is the man to whom you should speak." There was a time when the World War II vet, Al Fenn, was a major celebrity of this city. Fenn was promoter/manager of most of the amateur Golden Gloves winners of the latter 1950's and early 60's. As a pro manager, Fenn worked with Zora Folley - from Chandler - and they remain to this day as the most successful heavyweight team from our region. This 12/03/08 interview finds me with a spirited Fenn - despite a man on his way to chemotherapy - diagnosed with colon cancer 11 months earlier).
ME: I have learned much about Zora Folley over the last several weeks. You are a real legend and celebrity of Phoenix - yet most Phoenicians are from somewhere else - and are not interested in Phoenix history. They do not seem to know or care that you and Folley nearly teamed up for the heavyweight Championship.
FENN: Well, I tried to train Folley right. Bring him along steady against the right opponents.
ME: These early bouts were in Los Angeles and Clifton , Arizona ?
FENN: Yeagh - we did well. I only wish that I had not matched him against (Johnny) Summerlin. (Folley's first loss - 1955 - Los Angeles). That turned out to be a mistake. Folley was not quite ready for him.
ME: That was one setback - but only a setback as Folley steadily climbed the rankings.
Fenn: Yes - that's true. I put Folley against this muscled guy - a 'Madonis' - what is the word I am looking for?
ME: Adonis.
FENN: That's it - 'Adonis'. This fellow Zanzibar was an Adonis - and I met him in Safford and drove him all the way up to Clifton (September, 1954). The whole way there - Zanzibar had seen nothing like it before. Nothing but desert. Well, Folley knocked out this Adonis, Zanzibar (7th round), and that really impressed some folks. But it was the fight against (Nino) Valdes (September, 1956) that was the big one. This is what placed Folley on the (national) map.
ME: The earliest Phoenix bout that I know of was against K.O. Brown on November 17, 1953. Could you tell me anything about the fight?
FENN: That was at Phoenix Madison Square Garden . All of the major bouts were held there. Of course that wasn't his real name ('K.O. Brown') but we wanted something that sounded right. (TKO win for Folley - as Brown was unable to come out for the 9th round). It was a real loss for the city when they tore down the Garden. The venue was important from a historical perspective. Many memories were lost in its destruction.
ME: Folley was the legitimate #1 contender for the heavyweight Championship throughout 1958. But Cus D'Amato (manager of Champion Floyd Patterson) clearly was avoiding Folley. That must have been frustrating?
FENN: I went so far as to contact our local congressman, Stu Udall. Udall was up in arms about what was happening - like most folks - and he went so far as to promise to introduce a bill in Congress to force Patterson to fight Folley. But as far as I know - Udall had never actually done such a thing.
ME: (I delicately tread with Fenn's biggest mistake - matching Folley in September, 1958, against British heavyweight Champion, Henry Cooper, in England). Could you tell me about the Henry Cooper fight in England ? Folley was clearly the better pugilist - scoring a 2nd round knockout the second time they met (December, 1961). But that first bout gave Cus D'Amato an excuse to allow Patterson to avoid Folley. What happened in England with Cooper and that first decision loss?
FENN: (Disgusted) The English judges robbed Folley down there. Well, you know, you cannot beat one of their fighters by decision in their own backyard.
ME: It appears that Sonny Liston was willing to fight Folley after he won the Championship (September, 1962). But Liston allowed Patterson a rematch - another 1st round knockout - and then fought Ali ('Cassius Clay' at the time) - when he lost the title. Liston's loss was probably Folley's last chance at a title shot in his prime.
FENN: Sonny Liston was the greatest heavyweight of all time. The best that I ever saw. (Liston scored a 3rd round knockout over Folley - July, 1960 - which helped launch Liston to a title bout). Liston made a mistake fighting Ali. Ali was too fast and clever and Liston did not know what to do with him.
ME: But that Liston loss (February, 1964) cost yourself and Folley a title bout.
FENN: Well, Folley yes, but not me. I signed Folley to a 10 year contract in 1953. So that ended in '63'. One of the final things that I did was to buy Folley a house. It had been a financial struggle for years - and I had been against his getting married and settling down.
ME: You did not like Folley's wife - or you thought she would tame him too much?
FENN: No - Folley was never an angry person or had bad habits. I liked his wife. No - I was already paying expenses for one person - and a family meant paying for more. (Laughs). But I wanted to make sure Folley had something when our contract expired - and that is how he wound up with a house. After the changeover to (manager) Bill Swift - I still retained a 3 1/2% interest.
ME: Folley eventually landed his title opportunity (March, 1967) - past his prime (age 35) - against an undefeated Muhammed Ali at his peak. What could you tell me about that bout?
FENN: Folley was not the best boxer. He could hit - but could not take a punch well. Folley had a good, consistent jab with a sneaky hard right. Swift trained him different than Johnny Hart (trainer) and myself. We wanted him to develop better footwork - develop a shuffle.
ME: Like a Jersey Joe Walcott or Ali himself?
FENN: That's right! It turns out that Folley needed this desperately against a guy like Ali. Ali was not the kind of guy that you just take out. If you wanted to beat Ali - you had to take him out in later rounds. To take Ali to later rounds - you needed footwork so that you were not an easy target for him. Folley would also need to train his legs extra hard - along with the footwork - because Ali will be patient and let an opponent wear down. You still need to be moving - and have some kind of defense into the 10th round - if you had any hope of beating Ali.
ME: It is maddening to be a boxing historian and try to explain Ali to others. A major misperception of Ali - in his time and especially today - is that he was vulnerable against sluggers or bigger guys who hit hard. The pugilist who clearly gave Ali (as 'Clay') the most problems during the 1960's was Doug Jones - a fast defensive specialist with patience.
FENN: That's exactly what I am talking about! Folley was not a defensive fighter by nature - but he would have to alter his style or have no chance against Ali. (After the 7th round knockout - Ali spotted Folley's son crying. In a lovely gesture - Ali hugged the boy and told him neither he or anyone would have defeated his Dad had the bout occurred years earlier in Folley's prime).
ME: So you never managed another heavyweight contender after Folley?
FENN: I promoted Sonny Liston briefly towards the end of his career (late 1968). He was still a good fighter at that time. One was in a Juarez (Mexico ) bull ring. Liston won both of those bouts. (A dominant and exciting 3rd round knockout in Phoenix over experienced Sonny Moore was followed by a 2nd round knockout over Willis Earls in Juarez).
ME: The media reputation of Liston was of a scowling thug - sort of a criminal.
FENN: Sonny Liston was a very nice man. Quiet and softspoken.
ME: So the media reputation that Liston was some sort of animal was unfair?
FENN: Well - those other fighters were scared of him. They were beat before they entered the ring against him. Liston encouraged that.
ME: What was Sonny Liston's boxing peak?
FENN: It was before he was Champion when he fought Clevelend Williams. Both were big guys and it was one of the greatest heavyweight bouts ever. (Two TKO wins for Liston against Williams - both within 3 rounds - in 1959 and '60).
ME: What did Sonny Liston like to talk about - boxing or his family?
FENN: It was tough to get Liston to say anything. He was polite - with a 'please' or 'thank you' - but he did not reveal any more of himself than was necessary. Dick Sadler (manager) was the talker of the two.
ME: So your association with Liston did not last long?
FENN: Sometimes Liston fought too heavy and did not train like he should. They (Las Vegas ) got ahold of Liston. He never did the kinds of things that brought him down when I knew him. He was clean. (Liston died of a heroin overdose - age 38 - in December, 1970).
ME: Liston and Folley lived parallel lives - born within 3 weeks of one another - fought their first pro fight within 3 weeks of one another - fought their last pro bout within 3 months of one another - and then died within 18 months of each other.... What could you tell me about Zora Folley's death?
FENN: It appears that it was accidental. I believe it was an accident. I guess Folley was stepping out on his wife. The guy he was with was a professional celebrity hanger on. They were meeting with these two women. I believe that the men began with horseplay - trying to impress the women. Folley pushed the man in the pool. As he did this - he slipped off the ledge and his head hit against the hard surface.
ME: There is much gossip about murder and conspiracy. I believe - because Folley was a good man with a clean reputation - that the police felt it unnecessary to tarnish his local image as a family man. Because the police revealed so few details - except it was an accident - that this fueled the conspiracy rumors.
FENN: Oh - I hear the talk that Folley was murdered. They say it was the husband or boyfriend of one of the women that found them - became jealous - and whacked him. I don't believe it though. I was at the funeral - and his family seemed convinced that the police version - which was told to them privately - was the truth and that it was an accident.
ME: You used the term 'whacked' and this makes me think of the mob - and we are talking about boxing. Has the mob ever threatened you to lose a bout or anything like that?
FENN: The mob threatened both myself and my partner, Dave McCoy. The Nevada mob approached me one day and said that (pugilist) Irving Star belongs to them now.
ME: Is that the only time the mob stole someone from you?
FENN: No - another fighter they wanted was Ray Coleman. (A fast hand speed featherweight who fought out of Phoenix in the early to mid 60's). The mob called and warned me that they would kill Coleman's daughter. I laughed at them: "Ray Coleman does not even have a daughter!"
Me: Could you tell me the name of anyone that was part of the mob?
FENN: An Italian by the name of Ralph Gambina. He worked the Nevada mob scene.
ME: Did you believe that the mob was serious about their threats?
FENN: Well - Dave McCoy was later murdered in Los Angeles . He was suffocated with a pillow and they never solved his murder. I guess that could have been me.
ME: That must have frightened you?
FENN: No. I was sad about what happened to Dave, but not as much as you might think. It is tough to break into the boxing business - and maybe not everything we did was legal. But everything involving the two of us died with him. (Laughs). As far as Irving Star - I warned him that he would regret betraying me - and the mobsters eventually burned him.
ME: Boxing is a pretty sleazy world - so it must be difficult to remain clean and honest?
FENN: I did the best that I could. I have known hundreds of boxers. So many of them were in gangs and their life was headed nowhere. I helped them develop a discipline to their lives - and this in turn led to self confidence. Many of these boxers were Hispanic - and they did not go on to win the title - but they became successful with their lives. So many of them approached me after they had quit boxing and thanked me for helping to turn around their lives.
ME: This must give you tremendous satisfaction?
FENN: Yeagh - boxing is a business - but it turns out to be the human aspects that brought out my best and most lasting memories.
(It is with regret that I conclude with Mr. Fenn's having lost his battle with cancer on February 24, 2009).
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Dan Navarro . . .
The oldest son of our Hap Navarro, performs "El Perro" the Cilantro song.
This was last June 6th, at the final performance of Lowen & Navarro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN0X7hHNpuk
-Rick Farris
The oldest son of our Hap Navarro, performs "El Perro" the Cilantro song.
This was last June 6th, at the final performance of Lowen & Navarro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN0X7hHNpuk
-Rick Farris
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Armando Muniz vs. Bobby "Boogaloo" Watts (as Amateurs when Mando was in the Army) . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=comyojqr ... re=related
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=comyojqr ... re=related
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
This is the Fransisco Villegas that Frankie fought and beat in only his 9th pro fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Czt8Ooxu0E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Czt8Ooxu0E
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
kikibalt wrote:This is the Fransisco Villegas that Frankie fought and beat in only his 9th pro fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Czt8Ooxu0E
I thought Francisco Villegas was a good boxer, but Zamora's power was awesome.
I noticed that Cuyo Hernandez was still working with Zamora for this fight.
A win over Chango Cruz in an Olympic main event at age 18, was big for Frankie Jr.
However, defeating Villegas shortly afterwards was even more impressive. These guys were solid fighters.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Both Cruz and Villegas were solid fighters, more so Villegas imo, the Villegas fight was part of the Don King/ABC and Ring Magazine U.S. tournament, thats the time Johnnie Flores was with us, also the time we had Joe Louis as our driver.Rick Farris wrote:kikibalt wrote:This is the Fransisco Villegas that Frankie fought and beat in only his 9th pro fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Czt8Ooxu0E
I thought Francisco Villegas was a good boxer, but Zamora's power was awesome.
I noticed that Cuyo Hernandez was still working with Zamora for this fight.
A win over Chango Cruz in an Olympic main event at age 18, was big for Frankie Jr.
However, defeating Villegas shortly afterwards was even more impressive. These guys were solid fighters.
After the first round Frankie come back to the corner and tells me "He is thumbing me" I tell Frankie "Well, thumb him right back" by the end of ten rounds Villegas both eyes were close. Btw, Boxrec has Frankie winning by six round ko, not so, Frankie won a UD.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Francisco Villegas
birth date 1948-09-10
division bantamweight
nationality Puerto Rico
won 36 (KO 9) + lost 10 (KO 4) + drawn 3 = 49
rounds boxed 423 KO% 18.37
1978-12-08 132¼ Julio Valdez 133¾ 15-7-1
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States L UD 10 10
1978-11-18 Jaime Giminez
Saint Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands W KO 6
1978-10-21 Melvin Boynton 1-13-1
Saint Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands W KO 4
1977-04-16 Frankie Baltazar 6-1-1
Convention Center, Miami Beach, Florida, United States L KO 6
1976-11-09 Julio Valdez 9-7-1
New York, New York, United States L PTS 10 10
Check date
1976-04-05 Danny Trazinski 9-3-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1976-01-20 126 Vernon Sollas 125½ 19-3-1
Royal Albert Hall, Kensington, London, United Kingdom L KO 7 10x3
~ referee: Harry Gibbs ~
The Ring May 1976
1975-09-01 Leonardo Cruz 20-2-2
San Juan, Puerto Rico L PTS 10 10
1975-06-09 Davey Vasquez 16-7-0
Ramon Loubriel Stadium, San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
~ USBA bantamweight title ~
1975-05-05 Earl Large 30-11-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
~ USBA bantamweight title ~
1975-03-31 Alfredo Escalera 29-7-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico D PTS 10 10
1975-02-08 Felix Figueroa 8-9-3
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
~ USBA bantamweight title ~
1974-12-08 Ruben Valdez 21-1-0
Cartagena, Colombia D PTS 10 10
1974-10-05 Alfonso Zamora 17-0-0
Plaza De Toros Monumental, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico L KO 2 10
1974-08-03 Eliseo Cosme 0-1-0
Palacio de Deporte, Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico L KO 7
1974-05-30 Andres Torres 8-9-0
Ponce, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1974-04-30 Antonio Zurdo Fuentes 5-5-0
Roberto Clemente Coliseum, San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1974-02-18 Rodolfo Martinez 37-2-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1974-01-07 Carl Bible
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 3
1973-12-29 Hector Espinosa 0-1-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico D PTS 10 10
1973-11-22 Enrique Pinder 35-6-2
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1973-10-29 Natalio Jimenez 18-15-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 10
1973-08-06 Natalio Jimenez 18-13-0
Felt Forum, New York, New York, United States W TKO 10 10
1973-06-23 Livio Nolasco 2-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1973-06-02 Tony Tris 3-4-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1973-04-16 Luciano Santos 0-6-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1973-03-12 120 Davey Vasquez 118¼ 12-5-0
Felt Forum, New York, New York, United States W UD 10 10
1973-02-16 Santos Luis Rivera 8-1-1
Roberto Clemente Coliseum, San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1972-08-08 Andres Torres 8-5-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1972-04-08 126 Samuel Serrano 126 14-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 12 12
~ Puerto Rican featherweight title ~
1971-10-25 Samuel Serrano 126 12-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico L PTS 12 12
~ Puerto Rican featherweight title ~
1971-07-03 Enrique Roque 7-0-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 12 12
1971-05-22 Enrique Roque 6-0-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico L PTS 10 10
1970-04-30 Benjamin Ramirez 2-0-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico L PTS 12 12
~ Puerto Rican featherweight title ~
1970-03-21 126 Blas Viera 125 9-12-3
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1969-11-13 125 Wilson Yambo 126 12-2-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1969-10-11 126 Pablo Goncalves 127 0-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 6
1969-10-10 Felix Sandoval 0-6-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1969-08-30 126 Carlos Santiago 128 2-3-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 8 8
1969-08-15 Luis Hernandez 0-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1969-07-28 Wilson Yambo 11-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1969-07-21 128½ Ruben De Jesus 136 4-13-3
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 8 8
1969-07-12 Blas Viera 9-10-3
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 8 8
1969-06-12 Juan Rivera 0-4-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 8 8
1969-05-10 Felix Sandoval 0-5-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 5
1968-11-25 Elias Reyes 0-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 6 6
1968-11-12 Luis Hernandez
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 5
1968-10-25 Elias Reyes
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 4 4
1968-10-10 Juan Rivera
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 2
birth date 1948-09-10
division bantamweight
nationality Puerto Rico
won 36 (KO 9) + lost 10 (KO 4) + drawn 3 = 49
rounds boxed 423 KO% 18.37
1978-12-08 132¼ Julio Valdez 133¾ 15-7-1
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States L UD 10 10
1978-11-18 Jaime Giminez
Saint Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands W KO 6
1978-10-21 Melvin Boynton 1-13-1
Saint Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands W KO 4
1977-04-16 Frankie Baltazar 6-1-1
Convention Center, Miami Beach, Florida, United States L KO 6
1976-11-09 Julio Valdez 9-7-1
New York, New York, United States L PTS 10 10
Check date
1976-04-05 Danny Trazinski 9-3-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1976-01-20 126 Vernon Sollas 125½ 19-3-1
Royal Albert Hall, Kensington, London, United Kingdom L KO 7 10x3
~ referee: Harry Gibbs ~
The Ring May 1976
1975-09-01 Leonardo Cruz 20-2-2
San Juan, Puerto Rico L PTS 10 10
1975-06-09 Davey Vasquez 16-7-0
Ramon Loubriel Stadium, San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
~ USBA bantamweight title ~
1975-05-05 Earl Large 30-11-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
~ USBA bantamweight title ~
1975-03-31 Alfredo Escalera 29-7-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico D PTS 10 10
1975-02-08 Felix Figueroa 8-9-3
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
~ USBA bantamweight title ~
1974-12-08 Ruben Valdez 21-1-0
Cartagena, Colombia D PTS 10 10
1974-10-05 Alfonso Zamora 17-0-0
Plaza De Toros Monumental, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico L KO 2 10
1974-08-03 Eliseo Cosme 0-1-0
Palacio de Deporte, Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico L KO 7
1974-05-30 Andres Torres 8-9-0
Ponce, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1974-04-30 Antonio Zurdo Fuentes 5-5-0
Roberto Clemente Coliseum, San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1974-02-18 Rodolfo Martinez 37-2-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1974-01-07 Carl Bible
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 3
1973-12-29 Hector Espinosa 0-1-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico D PTS 10 10
1973-11-22 Enrique Pinder 35-6-2
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1973-10-29 Natalio Jimenez 18-15-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 10
1973-08-06 Natalio Jimenez 18-13-0
Felt Forum, New York, New York, United States W TKO 10 10
1973-06-23 Livio Nolasco 2-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1973-06-02 Tony Tris 3-4-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1973-04-16 Luciano Santos 0-6-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1973-03-12 120 Davey Vasquez 118¼ 12-5-0
Felt Forum, New York, New York, United States W UD 10 10
1973-02-16 Santos Luis Rivera 8-1-1
Roberto Clemente Coliseum, San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1972-08-08 Andres Torres 8-5-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1972-04-08 126 Samuel Serrano 126 14-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 12 12
~ Puerto Rican featherweight title ~
1971-10-25 Samuel Serrano 126 12-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico L PTS 12 12
~ Puerto Rican featherweight title ~
1971-07-03 Enrique Roque 7-0-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 12 12
1971-05-22 Enrique Roque 6-0-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico L PTS 10 10
1970-04-30 Benjamin Ramirez 2-0-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico L PTS 12 12
~ Puerto Rican featherweight title ~
1970-03-21 126 Blas Viera 125 9-12-3
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1969-11-13 125 Wilson Yambo 126 12-2-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1969-10-11 126 Pablo Goncalves 127 0-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 6
1969-10-10 Felix Sandoval 0-6-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1969-08-30 126 Carlos Santiago 128 2-3-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 8 8
1969-08-15 Luis Hernandez 0-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1969-07-28 Wilson Yambo 11-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 10 10
1969-07-21 128½ Ruben De Jesus 136 4-13-3
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 8 8
1969-07-12 Blas Viera 9-10-3
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 8 8
1969-06-12 Juan Rivera 0-4-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 8 8
1969-05-10 Felix Sandoval 0-5-1
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 5
1968-11-25 Elias Reyes 0-1-0
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 6 6
1968-11-12 Luis Hernandez
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 5
1968-10-25 Elias Reyes
San Juan, Puerto Rico W PTS 4 4
1968-10-10 Juan Rivera
San Juan, Puerto Rico W KO 2
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
-
Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Frank . . .
Villegas' record is a good one, and his competition before fighting Frankie Jr. included some of the best in the world, some all-time great champs.
Besides Zamora, he also fought Rodolfo Martinez and a guy who most here might not know about, Earl Large.
Large was a former Nat'l GG's champ out of Roswell, N.M. He was one of those "coulda, shoulda, mighta" type contenders that flew under the radar.
Although just a teenager, Frankie was already an experienced vet by the time he turned professional.
He had been facing world class competition in the gym and in the ring for a long time.
Still, his being able to handle these guys in such a cool fashion at such a young age is amazing.
His maturity in the ring at such a young age is reminicent of Mando Ramos. Many can't handle the pressure so young. Mando couldn't, Frankie Jr. did.
He basically stepped into top ten level comp immediatly, and took control. He was never taught to lose, never aquired an attitude less than a winner.
Frankie Jr.'s record validates these words.
-Rick Farris
Villegas' record is a good one, and his competition before fighting Frankie Jr. included some of the best in the world, some all-time great champs.
Besides Zamora, he also fought Rodolfo Martinez and a guy who most here might not know about, Earl Large.
Large was a former Nat'l GG's champ out of Roswell, N.M. He was one of those "coulda, shoulda, mighta" type contenders that flew under the radar.
Although just a teenager, Frankie was already an experienced vet by the time he turned professional.
He had been facing world class competition in the gym and in the ring for a long time.
Still, his being able to handle these guys in such a cool fashion at such a young age is amazing.
His maturity in the ring at such a young age is reminicent of Mando Ramos. Many can't handle the pressure so young. Mando couldn't, Frankie Jr. did.
He basically stepped into top ten level comp immediatly, and took control. He was never taught to lose, never aquired an attitude less than a winner.
Frankie Jr.'s record validates these words.
-Rick Farris
Last edited by Rick Farris on 27 Nov 2009, 16:01, edited 2 times in total.
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
dagosd2000 wrote:
Rocky
You got the Rock down too, Rog.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
THE PERFECT GAME
Bronx,New York. Yankee Stadium. Don Larsen's perfect game against the Dodgers. It was on last night. The whole game.There was one camera behind and above home plate.You could see in the crowd that everyone was dressed up. The Stadium was packed to the doors. Vin Scully did the game by himself. The players wore those baggy cotton uniforms. Of course the broadcast was in black and white.
Sal"The Barber"was throwing for Brooklyn. The year was 1956.Everyone was there. Pee Wee,Hodges,The Duke, Campy,and Jackie Robinson for the Ebbet's guys. Billy Martin,Yogi,Joe Collins,and The Mick for the Pin Stripers.
Vin Scully was 27 years old then. His voice is still the same today. He gives you a call that's as objective and fair as it goes.He never draws attention to himself. He's always been known for that. He never once mentioned "no hitter" or "perfect game" until the final out.
There were no instant replays then. No interviews after the game. The crowd went wild when it was over. The Yamks waved to their fans and went to the lockers. Scully gave a short recap. That was it.It was over.It was beautifull. It was the way a game should be.
I remember my father would walk away from the TV when the game was over. He didn't like instant replays. He never watched the pre or post games. Just watched the game.
I like watching the old games. The old fights. Dunphy going it alone. Maybe a short interview with the winner. Gracious and honest. No sour grapes. The Garden.Yankee Stadium. The voices of Johnny Addie,Vin Scully,Don Dunphy,Ted Husing,Red Barber...The baggy uniforms. White trunks or black trunks. Black and white TV. Sometimes I almost feel that I'm there.
Bronx,New York. Yankee Stadium. Don Larsen's perfect game against the Dodgers. It was on last night. The whole game.There was one camera behind and above home plate.You could see in the crowd that everyone was dressed up. The Stadium was packed to the doors. Vin Scully did the game by himself. The players wore those baggy cotton uniforms. Of course the broadcast was in black and white.
Sal"The Barber"was throwing for Brooklyn. The year was 1956.Everyone was there. Pee Wee,Hodges,The Duke, Campy,and Jackie Robinson for the Ebbet's guys. Billy Martin,Yogi,Joe Collins,and The Mick for the Pin Stripers.
Vin Scully was 27 years old then. His voice is still the same today. He gives you a call that's as objective and fair as it goes.He never draws attention to himself. He's always been known for that. He never once mentioned "no hitter" or "perfect game" until the final out.
There were no instant replays then. No interviews after the game. The crowd went wild when it was over. The Yamks waved to their fans and went to the lockers. Scully gave a short recap. That was it.It was over.It was beautifull. It was the way a game should be.
I remember my father would walk away from the TV when the game was over. He didn't like instant replays. He never watched the pre or post games. Just watched the game.
I like watching the old games. The old fights. Dunphy going it alone. Maybe a short interview with the winner. Gracious and honest. No sour grapes. The Garden.Yankee Stadium. The voices of Johnny Addie,Vin Scully,Don Dunphy,Ted Husing,Red Barber...The baggy uniforms. White trunks or black trunks. Black and white TV. Sometimes I almost feel that I'm there.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Rick,Rick Farris wrote:Frank . . .
Villegas' record is a good one, and his competition before fighting Frankie Jr. included some of the best in the world, some all-time great champs.
Besides Zamora, he also fought Rodolfo Martinez and a guy who most here might not know about, Earl Large.
Large was a former Nat'l GG's champ out of Roswell, N.M. He was one of those "coulda, shoulda, mighta" type contenders that flew under the radar.
Although just a teenager, Frankie was already an experienced vet by the time he turned professional.
He had been facing world class competition in the gym and in the ring for a long time.
Still, his being able to handle these guys in such a cool fashion at such a young age is amazing.
His maturity in the ring at such a young age is reminicent of Mando Ramos. Many can't handle the pressure so young. Mando couldn't, Frankie Jr. did.
He basically stepped into top ten level comp immediatly, and took control. He was never taught to lose, never aquired an attitude less than a winner.
Frankie Jr.'s record validates these words.
-Rick Farris
Other good fighters that Villegas fought were Davey Vasquez, Leo Cruz ,Alfredo Escalera, Enrique Pinder, and Samuel Serrano, Serrano was WBA jr lightweight champ when Frankie was #1 rank jr. lightwright, Serrano would never agree to a title fight with Frankie.
Some of the above mentioned fighters won world titles.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Btw, Frankie was sign to fight Earl Large, day of the fight Large didn't show at the weight-ins, never did find out what happened to him..... 
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D40veCPDOxI
Night Owl
Tony Allen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmSwt__2-Sk
I Found An Angel
Tony Allen
Night Owl
Tony Allen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmSwt__2-Sk
I Found An Angel
Tony Allen
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 27 Nov 2009, 19:16, edited 1 time in total.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
kikibalt wrote:Rick,Rick Farris wrote:Frank . . .
Villegas' record is a good one, and his competition before fighting Frankie Jr. included some of the best in the world, some all-time great champs.
Besides Zamora, he also fought Rodolfo Martinez and a guy who most here might not know about, Earl Large.
Large was a former Nat'l GG's champ out of Roswell, N.M. He was one of those "coulda, shoulda, mighta" type contenders that flew under the radar.
Although just a teenager, Frankie was already an experienced vet by the time he turned professional.
He had been facing world class competition in the gym and in the ring for a long time.
Still, his being able to handle these guys in such a cool fashion at such a young age is amazing.
His maturity in the ring at such a young age is reminicent of Mando Ramos. Many can't handle the pressure so young. Mando couldn't, Frankie Jr. did.
He basically stepped into top ten level comp immediatly, and took control. He was never taught to lose, never aquired an attitude less than a winner.
Frankie Jr.'s record validates these words.
-Rick Farris
Other good fighters that Villegas fought were Davey Vasquez, Leo Cruz ,Alfredo Escalera, Enrique Pinder, and Samuel Serrano, Serrano was WBA jr lightweight champ when Frankie was #1 rank jr. lightwright, Serrano would never agree to a title fight with Frankie.
Some of the above mentioned fighters won world titles.
I'm familiar with all of them, Frank. Davey Vasquez scored a unanimous ten round win over Benny Rodriguez at the Garden. Sammy Serrano would have been a good fight for Frankie. Serrano was good, but I believe Frankie would have taken his title. And of course, Esculara.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez?Rick Farris wrote:kikibalt wrote:Rick,Rick Farris wrote:Frank . . .
Villegas' record is a good one, and his competition before fighting Frankie Jr. included some of the best in the world, some all-time great champs.
Besides Zamora, he also fought Rodolfo Martinez and a guy who most here might not know about, Earl Large.
Large was a former Nat'l GG's champ out of Roswell, N.M. He was one of those "coulda, shoulda, mighta" type contenders that flew under the radar.
Although just a teenager, Frankie was already an experienced vet by the time he turned professional.
He had been facing world class competition in the gym and in the ring for a long time.
Still, his being able to handle these guys in such a cool fashion at such a young age is amazing.
His maturity in the ring at such a young age is reminicent of Mando Ramos. Many can't handle the pressure so young. Mando couldn't, Frankie Jr. did.
He basically stepped into top ten level comp immediatly, and took control. He was never taught to lose, never aquired an attitude less than a winner.
Frankie Jr.'s record validates these words.
-Rick Farris
Other good fighters that Villegas fought were Davey Vasquez, Leo Cruz ,Alfredo Escalera, Enrique Pinder, and Samuel Serrano, Serrano was WBA jr lightweight champ when Frankie was #1 rank jr. lightwright, Serrano would never agree to a title fight with Frankie.
Some of the above mentioned fighters won world titles.
I'm familiar with all of them, Frank. Davey Vasquez scored a unanimous ten round win over Benny Rodriguez at the Garden. Sammy Serrano would have been a good fight for Frankie. Serrano was good, but I believe Frankie would have taken his title. And of course, Esculara.
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Rick,
Other good fighters that Villegas fought were Davey Vasquez, Leo Cruz ,Alfredo Escalera, Enrique Pinder, and Samuel Serrano, Serrano was WBA jr lightweight champ when Frankie was #1 rank jr. lightwright, Serrano would never agree to a title fight with Frankie.
Some of the above mentioned fighters won world titles.[/quote]
I'm familiar with all of them, Frank. Davey Vasquez scored a unanimous ten round win over Benny Rodriguez at the Garden. Sammy Serrano would have been a good fight for Frankie. Serrano was good, but I believe Frankie would have taken his title. And of course, Esculara.[/quote]
Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez?[/quote]
No, Frank. Bennie was a top bantam contender in the early 70's. He he decisioned me in his US debut and ended up fighting for Jackie McCoy. He was a KO artist from below the border who was unbeaten until "Little red" flattened him in one round. The only "Bennie the Jet" I know os the lick boxing legend, Bennie "The Jet" Urquidez.
-Rick Farris
Other good fighters that Villegas fought were Davey Vasquez, Leo Cruz ,Alfredo Escalera, Enrique Pinder, and Samuel Serrano, Serrano was WBA jr lightweight champ when Frankie was #1 rank jr. lightwright, Serrano would never agree to a title fight with Frankie.
Some of the above mentioned fighters won world titles.[/quote]
I'm familiar with all of them, Frank. Davey Vasquez scored a unanimous ten round win over Benny Rodriguez at the Garden. Sammy Serrano would have been a good fight for Frankie. Serrano was good, but I believe Frankie would have taken his title. And of course, Esculara.[/quote]
Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez?[/quote]
No, Frank. Bennie was a top bantam contender in the early 70's. He he decisioned me in his US debut and ended up fighting for Jackie McCoy. He was a KO artist from below the border who was unbeaten until "Little red" flattened him in one round. The only "Bennie the Jet" I know os the lick boxing legend, Bennie "The Jet" Urquidez.
-Rick Farris
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
You're right, Rick, don't know what I was thinking about, but for some reason I always had Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez in my mind, yes its Urquidez....I don't remember the Bennie you're talking about, but if he fought for Jackie than I would say that I seen him fight at some point....Rick Farris wrote:Rick,
Other good fighters that Villegas fought were Davey Vasquez, Leo Cruz ,Alfredo Escalera, Enrique Pinder, and Samuel Serrano, Serrano was WBA jr lightweight champ when Frankie was #1 rank jr. lightwright, Serrano would never agree to a title fight with Frankie.
Some of the above mentioned fighters won world titles.
I'm familiar with all of them, Frank. Davey Vasquez scored a unanimous ten round win over Benny Rodriguez at the Garden. Sammy Serrano would have been a good fight for Frankie. Serrano was good, but I believe Frankie would have taken his title. And of course, Esculara.
Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez?
No, Frank. Bennie was a top bantam contender in the early 70's. He he decisioned me in his US debut and ended up fighting for Jackie McCoy. He was a KO artist from below the border who was unbeaten until "Little red" flattened him in one round. The only "Bennie the Jet" I know os the lick boxing legend, Bennie "The Jet" Urquidez.
-Rick Farris