floyed mayweather amatuer carear

DA_SERGEANT_WRIGHT · Post by **DA_SERGEANT_WRIGHT** » 10 Jan 2005, 11:29

he had 90 bouts won 84 lost 6 so very gud he got bronze in the olympics and won many national titles anybody know who he fought as a amatuer and results wat was he like was his style similar to now or different

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 10 Jan 2005, 12:07

1993: Golden Gloves: 1°
1994: Golden Gloves: 1°
1995: United States Featherweight: 1°
1995: W.C. Berlin Featherweight:
+ Marian Leondraliu (Rou) points
- Nourredine Medjihoud (Alg) points
1996: Golden Gloves: 1°
1996: Olympic Trials Featherweight: 2°
+ William Jenkins ko 3
+ James Baker ko 1
- Augie Sanchez points
1996: Challengers Olympiques Featherweight: 1°
+ Carlos Navarro points
1996: Barrages Olympiques Augusta Featherweight:
+ Augie Sanchez points
+ Augie Sanchez points
1996: Olympic Games Atlanta Featherweight: 3°
+ Bakhtiyar Tileganov (Kaz) kot 2
+ Artur Gevorgyan (Arm) points
+ Lorenzo Aragon (Cub) points
- Serafim Todorov (Bul) points

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 11 Jan 2005, 13:37

Beat Eric Morel in final of 1993 National Golden Gloves at 112
Lost to Martin Castillo, MEX 1-2 in a USA-MEX Dual in 1994 also at 112
Lost to Carlos Navarro by pts in a PanAmerican Trials in 1995 at 119
Won a couple of Dual meets before the 1996 Olympics vs Germany and Russia

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 02 Mar 2005, 22:11

locoxelbox wrote:Beat Eric Morel in final of 1993 National Golden Gloves at 112
Lost to Martin Castillo, MEX 1-2 in a USA-MEX Dual in 1994 also at 112
Lost to Carlos Navarro by pts in a PanAmerican Trials in 1995 at 119
Won a couple of Dual meets before the 1996 Olympics vs Germany and Russia

lost a controversial decision in semifinals of 1996 olympics to bulgarian serafim todorov...head of referees in that olympics was bulgarian!!

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 03 Mar 2005, 00:33

Yes, but the Olympics was in the USA! Very close fight. Don't think it was a robbery at all. Could have gone either way.

ogii3 · Post by **ogii3** » 03 Mar 2005, 07:04

shoutout2u wrote:
locoxelbox wrote:Beat Eric Morel in final of 1993 National Golden Gloves at 112
Lost to Martin Castillo, MEX 1-2 in a USA-MEX Dual in 1994 also at 112
Lost to Carlos Navarro by pts in a PanAmerican Trials in 1995 at 119
Won a couple of Dual meets before the 1996 Olympics vs Germany and Russia
lost a controversial decision in semifinals of 1996 olympics to bulgarian serafim todorov...head of referees in that olympics was bulgarian!!

Close on points, but Todorov outplayed him. Floyd punch twice hardly Todorov, but received a lot of head backing punches from BUlgarian.

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 23 Mar 2005, 20:19

ogii3 wrote:
shoutout2u wrote:
locoxelbox wrote:Beat Eric Morel in final of 1993 National Golden Gloves at 112
Lost to Martin Castillo, MEX 1-2 in a USA-MEX Dual in 1994 also at 112
Lost to Carlos Navarro by pts in a PanAmerican Trials in 1995 at 119
Won a couple of Dual meets before the 1996 Olympics vs Germany and Russia
lost a controversial decision in semifinals of 1996 olympics to bulgarian serafim todorov...head of referees in that olympics was bulgarian!!
Close on points, but Todorov outplayed him. Floyd punch twice hardly Todorov, but received a lot of head backing punches from BUlgarian.

apparently todorov's style doesnt adapt well to the pro ranks...he is something like 3-1 as pro, losing to a total bum!!

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 23 Mar 2005, 20:24

locoxelbox wrote:Yes, but the Olympics was in the USA! Very close fight. Don't think it was a robbery at all. Could have gone either way.

the location of the olympics is ALWAYS secondary to officiating...JUST ASK EVANDER HOLYFIELD, WHO WAS WRONGLY DQ'd IN 1984 BY YUGO REF WHO WAS AFRAID HIS COUNTRYMAN WOULD GET SMOKED BY HOLY!!

floyd should have won the semi with todorov and dont fool yourself into thinking the "computerized scoring system" is any less politically manipulated than the old style...the judges just manipulate which buttons they press and how often instead of their paper scorecards!!

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 23 Mar 2005, 20:27

Todorov won that fight fair & square. And so what if Todorov didnt have a great pro career?

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 23 Mar 2005, 20:35

Freiheit wrote:Todorov won that fight fair & square. And so what if Todorov didnt have a great pro career?

as locoxelbox said...the fight could have gone either way & i firmly believe it went todorov's way because of political considerations.

as for your 2nd point...failure at the highest level of a sport is the ultimate failure...just ask vasily jirov, jorge luis gonzalez, howard davis or any of the other countless amateur stars who fell short in the pro ranks of boxing or any other sport for that matter!!

ogii3 · Post by **ogii3** » 24 Mar 2005, 04:48

shoutout2u wrote:
Freiheit wrote:Todorov won that fight fair & square. And so what if Todorov didnt have a great pro career?
as locoxelbox said...the fight could have gone either way & i firmly believe it went todorov's way because of political considerations.

as for your 2nd point...failure at the highest level of a sport is the ultimate failure...just ask vasily jirov, jorge luis gonzalez, howard davis or any of the other countless amateur stars who fell short in the pro ranks of boxing or any other sport for that matter!!

So judjing your opinion Felix Savon, Teofilion Stevenson, Hector Vinent, Juan Hernandez, Ariel Hernandez, Enrique Carrion and all other Cuban stars aren't great fighters, cos they never put professional gloves?
It's the same for the Russians and here is the freshest example Oleg Saitov, who didn't have great style, but was a master.
As for Todorov you can't talk if you don't know the situation, how difficult is the live of retired sportsmen, who didn't have funds and how they must start pro carriers. Why don't you think such a great boxing schols like Eastern Europe Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Hungary and almost all former Soviet union countries hasn't so big success? Because in fact in those countries some 7-8 years ago there weren't professional boxing governing body. There weren't boxing galas (or once or twice per year).
Look in USA. Look how far below droped USA amateur national team fighters. In last world championships they took only one medal - bronze from Andre Berto. But USA amateur fighters growing as pro's like a flowers. THey have great team behind them. They have nice places to train and a lot of sparing partners. They have matches in every 3-4 weeks.
I am stopping here, cos it seems you are big fan of professional boxing and can't judge the beauty of amateur style. In fact how many amateur tournaments or shows you ever watch live in a hall? or on TV?

ogii3 · Post by **ogii3** » 24 Mar 2005, 04:52

And just to add about politics:
Why do you think AIBA would let small country like Bulgaria to have three men in the final. Yes, president of EABA and vice-president of AIBA is Bulgarian. But at the same time the general-secretary of AIBA was Mr. Loring Baker (RIP). Don't forget the fact that the Games was in Atlanta!
Watch once again the fight and tell me that Pretty Folyd was superior in that match.

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 24 Mar 2005, 11:15

shoutout2u wrote:JUST ASK EVANDER HOLYFIELD, WHO WAS WRONGLY DQ'd IN 1984

HAHA...

have you seen the fight????????????? Holy hits after stop and break throughout the whole fight. The referee already gave him a caution...and then Holy is about to KO his opponent and the referee screams STOP...TWICE!! and Holy lets go another punch! It's amateur boxing, you don't care about the name of the fighter...he must follow the rules...he was rightfully disqualified. Had it been pro boxing where the money talks maybe it could end up in No Contest or something. Even Evander Holyfield must learn to obey the referee

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 24 Mar 2005, 11:21

shoutout2u wrote:apparently todorov's style doesnt adapt well to the pro ranks...he is something like 3-1 as pro, losing to a total bum!!

You can't take Todorovs pro career seriously. He had already taken part in three Olympic Games, he was like 30 years old when he turned pro and not in vey good condition.

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 24 Mar 2005, 11:32

shoutout2u wrote:as for your 2nd point...failure at the highest level of a sport is the ultimate failure...just ask vasily jirov, jorge luis gonzalez, howard davis or any of the other countless amateur stars who fell short in the pro ranks of boxing

Vassiliy Jirov - IBF cruiserweight champion 1999-2003 with 7 defenses, losing close decision to to James Toney. Where's the failure?

How about Kostya Tszyu, Yuri Arbachakov, Vitali Klitschko, Dariusz Michalczewski, Sven Ottke, etc, etc. Did they also fail?

There are obvious differences between amateur and pro boxing. But a good boxer is a good boxer and he will adapt, just like all the others had to do before him. Or don't you think Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar De La Hoya, Roy Jones or Lennox Lewis had to adapt?
Of course the differences were lot less in old times (no headgear, no computer scoring, three minute rounds, etc). But even today most top amateur boxers can compete at high pro level. Look at Omar Narvaez who with just one and a half year as a pro with only 11 pro fights won the WBO world title.

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 24 Mar 2005, 20:29

ogii3 wrote:
shoutout2u wrote:
Freiheit wrote:Todorov won that fight fair & square. And so what if Todorov didnt have a great pro career?
as locoxelbox said...the fight could have gone either way & i firmly believe it went todorov's way because of political considerations.

as for your 2nd point...failure at the highest level of a sport is the ultimate failure...just ask vasily jirov, jorge luis gonzalez, howard davis or any of the other countless amateur stars who fell short in the pro ranks of boxing or any other sport for that matter!!
So judjing your opinion Felix Savon, Teofilion Stevenson, Hector Vinent, Juan Hernandez, Ariel Hernandez, Enrique Carrion and all other Cuban stars aren't great fighters, cos they never put professional gloves?
It's the same for the Russians and here is the freshest example Oleg Saitov, who didn't have great style, but was a master.
As for Todorov you can't talk if you don't know the situation, how difficult is the live of retired sportsmen, who didn't have funds and how they must start pro carriers. Why don't you think such a great boxing schols like Eastern Europe Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Hungary and almost all former Soviet union countries hasn't so big success? Because in fact in those countries some 7-8 years ago there weren't professional boxing governing body. There weren't boxing galas (or once or twice per year).
Look in USA. Look how far below droped USA amateur national team fighters. In last world championships they took only one medal - bronze from Andre Berto. But USA amateur fighters growing as pro's like a flowers. THey have great team behind them. They have nice places to train and a lot of sparing partners. They have matches in every 3-4 weeks.
I am stopping here, cos it seems you are big fan of professional boxing and can't judge the beauty of amateur style. In fact how many amateur tournaments or shows you ever watch live in a hall? or on TV?

amateurxing dropped to a much lower level when they added headgear & then again when they decided to stop fights just because boxer was too far behind in points!!

it has become a limp-wristed, watered down version of boxing that now serves only as a training ground for eventual pros, unless you are satisfied with a pitty-pat, INCREASINGLY NON-VIOLENT SPORT which is made very clear if you read AIBA literature that tries to divorce amateur boxing from the "brutality" of the pro version!!

for those who enjoy the "beauty" of amateur style...you might as well watch ballet or figure skating...but those of us who want to watch an actual fight will stick with the pros!!

and as far as the cubans, some would have won world titles like casamayor or other cuban greats who fought before dictator castro outlawed pro boxing in cuba...such as napoles, paret, rodriguez & some would have not won titles like nino valdes, florentino fernandez & countless other pre-castro cubans you never heard of!! or like the "highly-touted" jorge luis gonzalez, who had wins over savon & never went far as a pro!!

as for the eastern bloc boxers, many are good stiff, mechanical technicians like wlad klitschko, who have NO CHIN, NO STAMINA & NO FIGHTER'S HEART!! you dont need those things to be a 3x3 or 5x2-minute amateur boxer!! and that is one reason why wlad & many others dont make it as pros...

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 24 Mar 2005, 20:37

locoxelbox wrote:
shoutout2u wrote:as for your 2nd point...failure at the highest level of a sport is the ultimate failure...just ask vasily jirov, jorge luis gonzalez, howard davis or any of the other countless amateur stars who fell short in the pro ranks of boxing
Vassiliy Jirov - IBF cruiserweight champion 1999-2003 with 7 defenses, losing close decision to to James Toney. Where's the failure?

LOSING TO JOE MESI & GETTING KNOCKED OUT BY WASHED-UP MICHAEL MOORER!! JIROV IS BASICALLY DONE AT TOP LEVEL OF PROS!!

How about Kostya Tszyu, Yuri Arbachakov, Vitali Klitschko, Dariusz Michalczewski, Sven Ottke, etc, etc. Did they also fail?

TSZYU IS FUTURE HALL OF FAMER, AND VITALI COULD MAKE IT (DEPENDS ON FUTURE)...THE OTHERS WILL NEVER MAKE ANY HALL OF FAME OUTSIDE OF EUROPE...OTTKE & DARIUSZ ARE EURO SOFTIES AFRAID TO VENTURE OUT OF THE SAFE CONFINES OF HOME. ARBACHAKOV NOT BAD BUT QUIT AFTER HIS FIRST PRO LOSS!!

There are obvious differences between amateur and pro boxing. But a good boxer is a good boxer and he will adapt, just like all the others had to do before him. Or don't you think Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar De La Hoya, Roy Jones or Lennox Lewis had to adapt?

SOME WILL, SOME WONT...JUST ASK TYRELL BIGGS, MARVIS FRAZIER, WLAD KLITSCHKO, ETC.

Of course the differences were lot less in old times (no headgear, no computer scoring, three minute rounds, etc).

GOOD POINT...THE AMATEUR GAME HAS BECOME EMASCULATED & NON-VIOLENT & EVENTUALLY WILL NOT EVEN RESEMBLE REAL BOXING!!

But even today most top amateur boxers can compete at high pro level. Look at Omar Narvaez who with just one and a half year as a pro with only 11 pro fights won the WBO world title.

NARVAEZ IS A BAD EXAMPLE...HE HAS FACED ONLY 2ND RATE CONTENDERS IN DEFENDING HIS 2ND-RATE WBO BELT---HE HAS 2 DRAWS AGAINST SCRUBS...WHICH IS WHY HE NEVER WILL HAVE A MAJOR BELT (WBC,WBA,IBF)

i typed in all caps just so i could respond to your points one by one...

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 25 Mar 2005, 01:23

Saying that all boxers who don't end up in the Hall of fame have failed as pros is like saying Floyd Mayweather and Evander Holyfield were bums as amateurs because they didn't win Olympic gold medals.

If you don't like Narvaez' example, how about Oscar De La Hoya 1,5 years as a pro and 11 bouts (don't you think he could have beaten Jimmie Bredahl in his pro debut?).

Jorge Luis Gonzalez never beat Savon. They weren't even in the same weight class. And Gonzalez was over 30 years old when he turned pro and he was way behing fighters as Roberto Balado and Leonardo Martinez Fiss.

ogii3 · Post by **ogii3** » 25 Mar 2005, 03:26

It's like two billy-goats on the bridge.
Amateur boxing gives opportunity for everyone to fight. Even if he hasn't so big talent and even if he isn't well prepared. Haedguard really isn't very attractive, you are right. But keeps you head away not only from 100% punch power, but from madness brain ilness that came after so much beating. Clear example is the Olympic light-heavyweigt champ from Rome'60.

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 25 Mar 2005, 18:48

ogii3 wrote:It's like two billy-goats on the bridge.
Amateur boxing gives opportunity for everyone to fight. Even if he hasn't so big talent and even if he isn't well prepared. Haedguard really isn't very attractive, you are right. But keeps you head away not only from 100% punch power, but from madness brain ilness that came after so much beating. Clear example is the Olympic light-heavyweigt champ from Rome'60.

it isnt that headgear is not attractive...headgear was just a big step toward making the sport less manly & more nonviolent...sure it can prevent some injuries, but if you are referring to muhammad ali (light heavy champ from rome), the you need to understand he had a congenital case of parkeinson's disease (meaning he was born with it)...boxing probably made it come earlier but boxing DID NOT CAUSE ALI'S PRESENT CONDITION---HE WOULD BE THAT WAY BY NOW EVEN W/O BOXING!!

...and headgear was only the first step toward sissifying amateur boxing (making it less manly)...the recent rule change that mandates stoppage when a boxer falls behind by 15 points also emasculates the sport & soon it will not even resemble true boxing, which has always been a violent sport.

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 25 Mar 2005, 19:07

locoxelbox wrote:Saying that all boxers who don't end up in the Hall of fame have failed as pros is like saying Floyd Mayweather and Evander Holyfield were bums as amateurs because they didn't win Olympic gold medals.

I DIDNT SAY THOSE GUYS WERE FAILURES AS PROS...YOU BROUGHT THE OTHERS UP AFTER I MENTIONED JIROV, GONZALEZ & DAVIS. DARIUSZ & OTTKE ARE NOT FAILURES AS PROS...JUST WAY OVERRATED CAUSE THEY FOUGHT MEDIOCRE OPPOSITION TO BUILD NUMERICALLY IMPRESSIVE RECORDS.SO WHILE I WONT CALL THEM FAILIURES, YOU CANT CALL THEM HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL EITHER. I GUESS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF A GREAT AMATEUR WHO WAS A FAILURE AS A PRO IS WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO!! A TECHNICALLY SOUND OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST WHOSE MENTAL & PHYSICAL WEAKNESSES WERE BLATANTLY EXPOSED IN THE PAID RANKS!!

If you don't like Narvaez' example, how about Oscar De La Hoya 1,5 years as a pro and 11 bouts (don't you think he could have beaten Jimmie Bredahl in his pro debut?).

OSCAR GOT EASY WBO TITLE AS HIS FIRST BELT & WENT ON TO WIN MAJOR BELTS...AND NO, I DONT THINK HE COULD HAVE BEATEN BREDAHL IN HIS FIRST PRO BOUT (UNLESS IT WAS A 3-ROUNDER) IT TAKES TIME TO ADAPT TO THE PRO GAME...THE MORE WATERED DOWN & LIMP-WRISTED AMATEUR BOXING GETS, THE LONGER IT WILL TAKE FIGHTERS TO ADAPT TO THE PROS!!

Jorge Luis Gonzalez never beat Savon. They weren't even in the same weight class. And Gonzalez was over 30 years old when he turned pro and he was way behing fighters as Roberto Balado and Leonardo Martinez Fiss.

SAVON MAY HAVE DONE BETTER IN THE PROS (ESPECIALLY AS A CRUISER IN ONE OF WEAKEST DIVISIONS) BUT HE WAS TOO SMALL TO HANG WITH THE HEAVIES. BALADO & MARTINEZ WOULD HAVE NOT DONE ANY BETTER AS PROS THAN GONZALEZ DID...MAYBE EVEN LESS SO, SINCE JORGE LUIS AT LEAST HAD ENUF POWER TO GET SOME KO'S

HEADGEAR HAS CHANGED THE GAME SO MUCH THAT IT IS CREATING A WHOLE NEW BREED OF AMATEUR CHAMPS---GUYS WITH GOOD TECHNIQUE BUT NO CHIN & NO FIGHTER'S HEART...WITH WLAD BEING THE BEST EXAMPLE, BUT ALSO HURTADO OF CUBA (KNOCKED OUT BY PERNELL FREAKING WHITAKER), TYRELL BIGGS & MARVIS FRAZIER AS EXAMPLES