Robin Reids future plans

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jan 2005, 14:47

20 years ago, most fighters were past their prime in their early thirties, but with advances in nutrition and training methods we are seeing more and more boxers who are still near peak levels of fitness in their mid to late 30s, Froch should be able to go on a long while provided he doesn't take too many beatings.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 12 Jan 2005, 15:16

jamesmcdonnell wrote:20 years ago, most fighters were past their prime in their early thirties, but with advances in nutrition and training methods we are seeing more and more boxers who are still near peak levels of fitness in their mid to late 30s.

Another factor is that fighters don't fight as often these days either. IMO.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jan 2005, 15:18

Less wear and tear yes. However though, i think in some respects the fighters of yesteryear were in better fighting shape as a result. Their fitness was perfectly geared for fighting, because they did it so often.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 12 Jan 2005, 15:28

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Less wear and tear yes. However though, i think in some respects the fighters of yesteryear were in better fighting shape as a result. Their fitness was perfectly geared for fighting, because they did it so often.

Fighting shape in the sense of timing and reflexes, you may well be right.

It's a hard thing to compare.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 12 Jan 2005, 16:33

jamesmcdonnell wrote:20 years ago, most fighters were past their prime in their early thirties, but with advances in nutrition and training methods we are seeing more and more boxers who are still near peak levels of fitness in their mid to late 30s.

Or is it like Larry Holmes said quite recently regarding how the older fighters are getting away with it because the fighters today aren’t as good.
Larry beat Ali, and did it quite comprehensively, when Ali was in his late 30`s.
Holmes got no credit for it.
Holmes when he was around the same age as Ali himself tried for the title and gave a better showing.

Look to my list of the good champions and their ages.
So what if Sven was 31, could he have been realistically expected to have beaten any of the names on my list……as long as he didn’t fight in Germany that is.

I am not saying Froch won`t win a world title, there are so many about the odds are in his favour, but if he wants to be thought of in the same light as the names I listed he needs to get a move on.
And merely by fighting on the under card of Hopkins fight won`t mean very much, its who you fight and how you look not where you fight and who else is on the bill.

And by the most successful in the division do you mean merely the most defences in that division? In that case he certainly was.
Or the most successful who has held a title at the weight; in that case you need once more to read my list.

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 02 Mar 2005, 13:55

Kessler vs Reid wont happen, at least for now. Bettina Palle was hoping to stage the fight on march 18th but because Reid first prolonged the negotiations and eventually turned down the fight Kessler's next opponent will be Anthony Mundine probably in may or june.

http://www.dr.dk/sporten/oevrigsport/ar ... eID=238368

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Mar 2005, 14:11

tonyevs wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:20 years ago, most fighters were past their prime in their early thirties, but with advances in nutrition and training methods we are seeing more and more boxers who are still near peak levels of fitness in their mid to late 30s.
Or is it like Larry Holmes said quite recently regarding how the older fighters are getting away with it because the fighters today aren’t as good.
Larry beat Ali, and did it quite comprehensively, when Ali was in his late 30`s.
Holmes got no credit for it.
Holmes when he was around the same age as Ali himself tried for the title and gave a better showing.

Look to my list of the good champions and their ages.
So what if Sven was 31, could he have been realistically expected to have beaten any of the names on my list……as long as he didn’t fight in Germany that is.

I am not saying Froch won`t win a world title, there are so many about the odds are in his favour, but if he wants to be thought of in the same light as the names I listed he needs to get a move on.
And merely by fighting on the under card of Hopkins fight won`t mean very much, its who you fight and how you look not where you fight and who else is on the bill.

And by the most successful in the division do you mean merely the most defences in that division? In that case he certainly was.
Or the most successful who has held a title at the weight; in that case you need once more to read my list.

Ali took a hell of a lot of damage in his career, late in his career he often didn't even try and avoid taking shots, Holmes didn't and Holmes also started his career later in earnest. Ali was fighting fornicating monsters like Liston at the age of 21.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 02 Mar 2005, 15:20

Ali also took a lot of punishment in many sparring sessions. From what I have read Ali really used to let his sparring partners unload a lot of shots on him, to "condition his body and mind to except pain".

Also Ali was a medically unfit man when losing to Holmes unlike Holmes when he fought McCall so the comparison is noted but flawed in my opinion.

bigped · Post by **bigped** » 02 Mar 2005, 15:50

Ali was class like,, really is the greatest in my eyes

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 03 Mar 2005, 05:04

KOJOE90 wrote:Ali also took a lot of punishment in many sparring sessions. From what I have read Ali really used to let his sparring partners unload a lot of shots on him, to "condition his body and mind to except pain".

Also Ali was a medically unfit man when losing to Holmes unlike Holmes when he fought McCall so the comparison is noted but flawed in my opinion.

And who was the sparring partner? a young and unexperienced Holmes.
When Holmes fought Holyfield comparisons could be made to Ali against Holmes.

And Ali had many a medical before the Holmes fight, hindsight now points you to Ali`s medical problems but these should not be the excuse in the Holmes fight, age was the problem.

Holmes was involved in hard fights also, and just because Liston was a bear of a fighter does not mean he gave Ali anything of a mauling in their two fights.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 Mar 2005, 06:08

No I'm sorry but you're wrong. Medical reports at the time clearly indicated that Ali was suffering from motor skills problems, and should never have been allowed to fight. He was cleared because he was such a big cash cow, Ferdie Pacheco admitted as much, and stated that he only stayed with Ali because he wanted to be there to pull him out if things got bad in the ring. By the time of the berbick fight, Ali was having big problems with even the simplest motor skills tests such as touching his nose, and was slurring like a drunk. If I'm not mistaken he may even have been on medications for the beginnings of parkinsons.

Holmes was just one of many sparring Partners used by Ali, after all, Ali was fighting since the 1960's, and whether you like it or not had a much harder career and took a lot more punishment than Holmes.

I'm sorry, but your comparison is clearly bollocks. Ali was a lot farther gone by the time he fought Holmes and Berbick. Holmes looked after himself a lot better than Ali did, and also didn't lay on the ropes in countless sparring sessions and fights taking a pounding.

Ali had 15 fights post Foreman. Maybe he would have developed Parkinson's syndrome anyway, maybe not, we'll never know, but the last few fights he had, he was clearly a shadow of his former self.

For christ's sake, Ali already had parkinson's syndrome by the time he got to Berbick, and most likely already had it when he fought Holmes. He was also totally out of shape against Holmes, having munched down loads of diuretics to make weight.

If you're determined to make the comparison, that's up to you, but it's clearly bollocks. Age is nothing to do with it, at 36, Lennox was at or near the peak of his powers, whilst Ali and Louis were washed up shells.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 03 Mar 2005, 07:39

What medical reports made before the fight clearly confirm you point? or is it you who`s point is clearly bollox?

You like alot of people are using hindsight to prove your point, Ali used another quite different reason for his loss to Holmes if you remember, and he even had a medical `expert` confirm this.

My original point was that I too believe what larry Holmes has said that todays older fighters can fight into later years because the younger fighters are not as good as they were years ago.

Joe Louis fought when he was an old man, and beat the good fighters but came unstuck against the really good fighters of that time, as did Ali.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 Mar 2005, 07:51

Ok, sure, I'm just making this all up. It was revealed by Ferdie Pachecho, that in fact Ali should never have been cleared to fight either Holmes and certainly not berbick. I cannot remember where I read this, but I will try and dig it out.

I just think you cannot compare how Ali looked at age 38 with Holmes at 38 or even 40. Ali was like a shambling zombie when he fought Holmes, he hardly threw a meaningul shot all night. It's a poor comparison. Even Holyfield at 41 looks less shot than Ali did against Holmes.

Possibly Larry has a point, but I think the fact fighters have far fewer fights than they used to is more likely the explanation, as are advances in training techniques and nutrition.

Part of the reason that athletes in all fields are not able to continue late on, is not fitness, which can actually be maintained, but the fact they keep picking up inuries which hinder training and prevent them practicing their sport. You can be as fit as a fiddle into your forties, but the chances are that during training you will strain muscles, tendons, joints etc, due to wear and tear over the years.

Modern training methods employed by the likes of Kostya Tszyu, put less strain on those areas, allowing people to fight on into their late 30's and beyond, whereas most fighters in Ali's time and before were well past their best by the time they hit their mid 30's.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 03 Mar 2005, 08:03

Freiheit wrote:Kessler vs Reid wont happen, at least for now. Bettina Palle was hoping to stage the fight on march 18th but because Reid first prolonged the negotiations and eventually turned down the fight Kessler's next opponent will be Anthony Mundine probably in may or june.

http://www.dr.dk/sporten/oevrigsport/ar ... eID=238368

Mundine-Kessler is a much more appealing fight IMO but doesn't Mundine have a rematch with Siaca up next? Great fighter but with his chin i find it hard to look so far ahead

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 03 Mar 2005, 08:22

Truthfully Reid is shot but the quality of the division is generally so poor that he is just getting by... but he's no longer a world beater by any stretch of the imagination and if he fought Calzaghe now he'd be koed.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 03 Mar 2005, 08:36

I've just been watching Reid-Calzaghe...Reid was robbed

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 03 Mar 2005, 14:17

Ali had a series of tests done before the Holmes fight which showed that he had difficulty in hoping on one leg, suffered memory lapses, frequent spells of slurred speech often when tired and also had a hole in his membrane (possibly caused by the dilation of bloodvessels) he also admitted to suffering from pins and needles in his hands and arms.
This was before the Holmes fight!.
Dr Ferdie Patcheco left the Ali corner after the third Norton fight in '77 as he belived then that Ali was suffering from the punishment he had taken in the ring and suffering from slurred speech.
I have loads of interviews of Ali and its clear that his speech pattern changed as far back as '77.
All this information can be seen in Ali's offical biography by Thomas Hauser... it was hushed up at the time as was the fact that Ali was wrongly prescribed medication for a thyroid condition before the Holmes fight that left him almost unable to raise his arms.
In his last fight against Berbick Ali had enough left to be competitive at times but really just survived on his courage and guile.....

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 03 Mar 2005, 14:43

tonyevs wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:Ali also took a lot of punishment in many sparring sessions. From what I have read Ali really used to let his sparring partners unload a lot of shots on him, to "condition his body and mind to except pain".

Also Ali was a medically unfit man when losing to Holmes unlike Holmes when he fought McCall so the comparison is noted but flawed in my opinion.

tonyevs wrote:[And who was the sparring partner? a young and unexperienced Holmes. When Holmes fought Holyfield comparisons could be made to Ali against Holmes..
Holmes was just one of many Ali sparring partners, amongst others he used, Ellis, Witherspoon, Sims, Tiger Williams, Johnson, Shavers, Conteh, Bugner etc etc.

tonyevs wrote:And Ali had many a medical before the Holmes fight, hindsight now points you to Ali`s medical problems but these should not be the excuse in the Holmes fight, age was the problem..
..

Ali's medical tests before the Holmes fight showed he has many medical issues but the huge money involved in the Ali v Holmes fight and the Ali name in general got those results 'hushed up'. And shame on those involved.

Also comparing fighters by their respective ages in not an precise science as lenght of career, punishment received, clean living and genetics are also big factors.