Bubis Heavyweight Ranking Dezember 2004

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 13 Jan 2005, 09:06

007 wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Says who, I wouldn't rank either of those guys in the top 10. Your rankings are just utter bollocks, they are based on who your favourites are, not on who is best. How could anyone rank Valuev in the top 10, based on what?

You're a typical European boxing fan, seduced by the bullshit TV coverage you believe that your guys are the best guys.

At least I realise that Danny Williams isn't a top 10 fighter, just because he beat Tyson doesn't make him a world force, Tyson is no longer a top 10.

Audley's career is on hold, he wasn't in the top 10 before the injury, so he cannot be one now. Maybe based on potential you could rate him in the top 10, but potential is irrelevant. Tony Ayala Jr had all the potential in the world, sadly he is mental and never realised it, same goes for Ibeabuchi.

Potential means nothing, Dominick Guinn looked the full ticket a year ago, and look at him now.
sorry, i watched every top heavyweight fight in 2004 in Europe and in the US and built my own opinion.
Of course you can have your opinion but having Wladimir over Brewster is ridiculous when he was TKO'd by him! Regardless of what you think of Brewster he deserves to be above Wlad as he beat him you cant say he will lose soon so is not in there. Any of them could lose soon....

it´s a good argument. in my January rankings i will rank him. sems logical.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jan 2005, 09:58

fornicating hell, didn't it occur to you before Bubi, hasn't applying logic to your rankings ever at least run through your mind.

You're like some sort of anti-vulcan....basing all decisions on whimsy and irrational emotional urges. I'd hate to see the way you dress..

"I know, I feel like a top hat today, and swimming goggles, and bright purple underpants and the clown shoes, yes, that's appropriate, I know it's minus 60 outside, and my knackers will freeze up, but somehow it just feels right."

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 13 Jan 2005, 11:05

jamesmcdonnell wrote:fornicating hell, didn't it occur to you before Bubi, hasn't applying logic to your rankings ever at least run through your mind.

You're like some sort of anti-vulcan....basing all decisions on whimsy and irrational emotional urges. I'd hate to see the way you dress..

"I know, I feel like a top hat today, and swimming goggles, and bright purple underpants and the clown shoes, yes, that's appropriate, I know it's minus 60 outside, and my knackers will freeze up, but somehow it just feels right."

i could take the fightnews-top-ten like everybody else. what´s your fornicating problem? in boxing we have more than 4 world champions and ranking systems. so to put all together in one list is never objective. it´s biased or however influenced. i only post my list here that you are not bored here.

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 13 Jan 2005, 11:09

#1 Vitali Klitschko
#2 Chris Byrd
#3 John Ruiz
#4 Hasim Rahman
#5 Wladimir Klitschko
#6 Andrew Golota
#7 Samuel Peter
#8 Nicolai Valuev
#9 Davarryl Williamson
#10 Lamon Brewster

but one could consider another ranking as some scorings were very close, and some were robberies:

#1 Vitali Klitschko
#2 Andrew Golota (arguably drew to Byrd and clearly beat Ruiz)
#3 Chrys Byrd
#4 John Ruiz
#5 Hasim Rahman
#6 Wladimir Klitschko
#7 Jameel Mc Cline
#8 Nicolai Valuev
#9 Davarryl Williamson
#10 Lamon Brewster

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jan 2005, 11:18

My point is that the idea is to at least TRY not to be biased. There isn't a single British fighter I would have in my heavyweight top 10.

Vitali
Byrd (track record speaks for itself)
Ruiz (just keeps on winning)
Golota (proved he is still world class against Byrd and Ruiz)
Mesi (still unbeaten, depends whether he ever fights again)
Rahman (drew with Tua, holds a win over Lewis and Meehan)
Jameel McCline (good performance against Byrd, experienced.
Brewster (only because he has a belt, don't expect him to be there long)
Wladimir K (still hanging in there, but one more loss and he's gone)
Toney (hard to justify, but very impressive performamnce against Holyfield)

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 13 Jan 2005, 11:23

THE LIST TO END ALL LISTS

1. Chris Byrd
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. James Toney
4. John Ruiz
5. Lamon Brewster
6. Henry Akinwande
7. Andrew Golota
8.Hasim Rahman
9.Richel Hersisia
10.Samuel Peter

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 13 Jan 2005, 11:23

jamesmcdonnell wrote:My point is that the idea is to at least TRY not to be biased. There isn't a single British fighter I would have in my heavyweight top 10.

Vitali
Byrd (track record speaks for itself)
Ruiz (just keeps on winning)
Golota (proved he is still world class against Byrd and Ruiz)
Mesi (still unbeaten, depends whether he ever fights again)
Rahman (drew with Tua, holds a win over Lewis and Meehan)
Jameel McCline (good performance against Byrd, experienced.
Brewster (only because he has a belt, don't expect him to be there long)
Wladimir K (still hanging in there, but one more loss and he's gone)
Toney (hard to justify, but very impressive performamnce against Holyfield)

to rank Mesi and McCline and not Sam or Krasniqi is total bulshit and against all actual rankings. what have they done? Mesi maybe will never come back. why don´t you rank the Tuaman then? or Holy?

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 13 Jan 2005, 11:24

i agree on that list too exept for Mesi who i think has been inactive for too long to be in the picture,+ looked unimpressive against Jirov, and Toney who has beaten nobody in the HW division (please Holyfield was a wreck already!)

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 13 Jan 2005, 11:27

wouter wrote:THE LIST TO END ALL LISTS

1. Chris Byrd
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. James Toney
4. John Ruiz
5. Lamon Brewster
6. Henry Akinwande
7. Andrew Golota
8.Hasim Rahman
9.Richel Hersisia
10.Samuel Peter

what is this list?? what the hell is Hersisia doing here? how the hell is Akinwande in a top 10 list? and Byrd at #1?? he arguably won to Oquendo, Golota and Mc Cline(very close)...you need convincing wins to be at #1...Vitali has convincing wins at least

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 13 Jan 2005, 11:28

wouter wrote:THE LIST TO END ALL LISTS

1. Chris Byrd
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. James Toney
4. John Ruiz
5. Lamon Brewster
6. Henry Akinwande
7. Andrew Golota
8.Hasim Rahman
9.Richel Hersisia
10.Samuel Peter

Hersisia isn´t a top 100 fighter. why don´t you rank Arnold Vanderlijde ?
Or Ronald Koeman?

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 13 Jan 2005, 11:31

BubiScholz wrote:
Hersisia isn´t a top 100 fighter. why don´t you rank Arnold Vanderlijde ?
Or Ronald Koeman?

Now you know how I felt when I read your list

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jan 2005, 11:54

BubiScholz wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:My point is that the idea is to at least TRY not to be biased. There isn't a single British fighter I would have in my heavyweight top 10.

Vitali
Byrd (track record speaks for itself)
Ruiz (just keeps on winning)
Golota (proved he is still world class against Byrd and Ruiz)
Mesi (still unbeaten, depends whether he ever fights again)
Rahman (drew with Tua, holds a win over Lewis and Meehan)
Jameel McCline (good performance against Byrd, experienced.
Brewster (only because he has a belt, don't expect him to be there long)
Wladimir K (still hanging in there, but one more loss and he's gone)
Toney (hard to justify, but very impressive performamnce against Holyfield)
to rank Mesi and McCline and not Sam or Krasniqi is total bulshit and against all actual rankings. what have they done? Mesi maybe will never come back. why don´t you rank the Tuaman then? or Holy?

Tua hasn't fought for ages and has been inactive, he also hasn't won a fight for a while.

Holyfield hasn't won a fight since Rahman.

Mesi and Toney are I admit hard to justify, I give Toney more than he deserves perhaps because of his skills, rather than achievements, plus he is a former world champ at cruiser, super middle and middle.

Mesi will be back, mark my words, the buffalo courts are now batting for him, and he'll get licensed to fight somewhere even if it means fighting only in buffalo.

Mesi will get pummelled and knocked off my list soon enough.

Sorry Sam and Krasniqi don't cut if for me, both have shown themselves to be beatable against sub world class opposition.

Raff The Frenchman · Post by **Raff The Frenchman** » 13 Jan 2005, 12:11

wouter wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:
Hersisia isn´t a top 100 fighter. why don´t you rank Arnold Vanderlijde ?
Or Ronald Koeman?
Now you know how I felt when I read your list

lol ok now i get it

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 13 Jan 2005, 12:25

guys, now a have THE realistic list. i put together the first 15 boxer of all 4 organisations (WBC,WBA,IBF and WBO) and gave them the same points for the rank:

1. Vitali Klitschko (because of the WBC-title)
2. Byrd
2. Brewster
2. Ruiz
5. Toney (i don´t know why the trashtalking MF is the best ranked in all orgs)
6. Barrett
7. Rahman
8. Beck
9. Sanders
10. McCline
10. Whitaker
10. Wladi Klitschko
13. Krasniqi
14. Valuev
15. Sam

IMO totally americanised........

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jan 2005, 12:41

Forgot about sanders, hmm, maybe I should have had him in, but apart from the win over Wlad, not much else to reccomend him.

Bubi, you don't really understand how ranking work.....

They are based on 1 thing. MONEY. The organisations are all desperate for a cash cow to extract their sanctioning fees from, the bigger the purse, the more they earn.

Vitali may be the best, but he's not a draw, the figures for his fight with Williams were piss poor. In order to make money Vitali needs a dance party, and with no real character in the division, Toney represents the biggest draw he can face outside of Lewis.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 13 Jan 2005, 12:46

1) Vitali
2) Byrd
3) Ruiz
4) Rahman
5) Golota
6) McCline
7) Barrett
8) Brewster
9) Toney
10) Wlad

Krasniqi, Sam, Samuel Peters, tony thompson knocking on the door

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jan 2005, 12:50

Fookin hell, that was almost identical to mine mate.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 13 Jan 2005, 12:53

knockout wrote:1) Vitali
2) Byrd
3) Ruiz
4) Rahman
5) Golota
6) McCline
7) Barrett
8) Brewster
9) Toney
10) Wlad

Krasniqi, Sam, Samuel Peters, tony thompson knocking on the door

Mine would be similar although I would rate Golota above Rahman.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 13 Jan 2005, 12:53

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Forgot about sanders, hmm, maybe I should have had him in, but apart from the win over Wlad, not much else to reccomend him.

Bubi, you don't really understand how ranking work.....

They are based on 1 thing. MONEY. The organisations are all desperate for a cash cow to extract their sanctioning fees from, the bigger the purse, the more they earn.

Vitali may be the best, but he's not a draw, the figures for his fight with Williams were piss poor. In order to make money Vitali needs a dance party, and with no real character in the division, Toney represents the biggest draw he can face outside of Lewis.

i am not stupid. you can buy a good ranking as well. e.g. Meehan suddenly appeared on #5 WBO, now he disappeared in the same speed....... there is not one real ranking. so i make a ranking myself wich gives more credit to the european fighters because they are better. i couldn´t see any american fighter in 2004 who convinced me and was better as for instance Krasniqi or Sam. watch the Sam-Bakhtov-fight and then a fight with Toney, Barret, Rahman, Whitaker etc. . they have shown nothing in 2004.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 13 Jan 2005, 12:54

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Forgot about sanders, hmm, maybe I should have had him in, but apart from the win over Wlad, not much else to reccomend him.

Bubi, you don't really understand how ranking work.....

They are based on 1 thing. MONEY. The organisations are all desperate for a cash cow to extract their sanctioning fees from, the bigger the purse, the more they earn.

Vitali may be the best, but he's not a draw, the figures for his fight with Williams were piss poor. In order to make money Vitali needs a dance party, and with no real character in the division, Toney represents the biggest draw he can face outside of Lewis.

i am not stupid. you can buy a good ranking as well. e.g. Meehan suddenly appeared on #5 WBC, now he disappeared in the same speed....... there is not one real ranking. so i make a ranking myself wich gives more credit to the european fighters because they are better. i couldn´t see any american fighter in 2004 who convinced me and was better as for instance Krasniqi or Sam. watch the Sam-Bakhtov-fight and then a fight with Toney, Barret, Rahman, Whitaker etc. . they have shown nothing in 2004.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jan 2005, 13:10

BubiScholz wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Forgot about sanders, hmm, maybe I should have had him in, but apart from the win over Wlad, not much else to reccomend him.

Bubi, you don't really understand how ranking work.....

They are based on 1 thing. MONEY. The organisations are all desperate for a cash cow to extract their sanctioning fees from, the bigger the purse, the more they earn.

Vitali may be the best, but he's not a draw, the figures for his fight with Williams were piss poor. In order to make money Vitali needs a dance party, and with no real character in the division, Toney represents the biggest draw he can face outside of Lewis.
i am not stupid. you can buy a good ranking as well. e.g. Meehan suddenly appeared on #5 WBO, now he disappeared in the same speed....... there is not one real ranking. so i make a ranking myself wich gives more credit to the european fighters because they are better. i couldn´t see any american fighter in 2004 who convinced me and was better as for instance Krasniqi or Sam. watch the Sam-Bakhtov-fight and then a fight with Toney, Barret, Rahman, Whitaker etc. . they have shown nothing in 2004.

Yes, but who did Sam or Krasniqi beat, that is any better than those names.

You have to take in consideration what a fighter has achieved to date, Golota has faced Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Byrd, Ruiz and soon Brewster. Although he hasn't won any of those fights, he is experienced at top level, and his best form against Bowe suggested that he is good enough to give most guys a hiding.

The European fighters look good because they are facing off against one another. Look at Sam against Gomez, stepped it up in class and he got absolutely schooled by his former stablemate.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 13 Jan 2005, 13:24

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Forgot about sanders, hmm, maybe I should have had him in, but apart from the win over Wlad, not much else to reccomend him.

Bubi, you don't really understand how ranking work.....

They are based on 1 thing. MONEY. The organisations are all desperate for a cash cow to extract their sanctioning fees from, the bigger the purse, the more they earn.

Vitali may be the best, but he's not a draw, the figures for his fight with Williams were piss poor. In order to make money Vitali needs a dance party, and with no real character in the division, Toney represents the biggest draw he can face outside of Lewis.
i am not stupid. you can buy a good ranking as well. e.g. Meehan suddenly appeared on #5 WBO, now he disappeared in the same speed....... there is not one real ranking. so i make a ranking myself wich gives more credit to the european fighters because they are better. i couldn´t see any american fighter in 2004 who convinced me and was better as for instance Krasniqi or Sam. watch the Sam-Bakhtov-fight and then a fight with Toney, Barret, Rahman, Whitaker etc. . they have shown nothing in 2004.
Yes, but who did Sam or Krasniqi beat, that is any better than those names.

You have to take in consideration what a fighter has achieved to date, Golota has faced Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Byrd, Ruiz and soon Brewster. Although he hasn't won any of those fights, he is experienced at top level, and his best form against Bowe suggested that he is good enough to give most guys a hiding.

The European fighters look good because they are facing off against one another. Look at Sam against Gomez, stepped it up in class and he got absolutely schooled by his former stablemate.

we both know that Gomez is one of the best if he takes it serious and doesn´t whore around. i hope they show something on saturday on ZDF. IMO the europeans are up. Danny Williams was the first and is by far not the best. why is a victory over Sam e.g. less worth than over Barrett, Oquendo, Whitaker etc. they are not better. they are only american. there are still different satndards that have to vanish.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 13 Jan 2005, 13:36

And why not Henry Akinwande?? Only two losses, one to McCall and one to Lennox Lewis! He has as credible a record as most of that original list if not more so.

I can’t have Mesi in any top 10. Monte Barrett was plain robbed against him, and Mesi got a home town decision. After his win over Guinn I’d put Barrett over Mesi without question in any rankings list.

The two people due to meet for the WBC title eliminator feature don't feature in your list, yet others who are equally half-baked if not more so are firmly there?

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 13 Jan 2005, 13:36

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Fookin hell, that was almost identical to mine mate.

yeah, i dropped Mesi as i reckon he will unfortunately have to retire (even though it seems Barrera had a similar problem)

If Gomez hadnt been a lazy shit and got bombed out, he would be there too..

Barrett has had some good results just missing out against Mesi (championship fight he won have won) and then beating undefeated Guinn. he has unbeaten owen beck next

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 13 Jan 2005, 13:55

guys like Barret, Whitaker, Guinn, Beck, Ainwande are totally overranked and by far not better than Sam or Krasniqi.