HomicideHenry wrote:Holyfield had 15 fights I believe by the time he fought Qawi. The Cruiserweight division at that time was still in its infancy, a mixed bag of small heavyweights and large light heavyweights who didnt seem to fit in to either weight class---Holyfield was also a very talented amateur, should have gotten the gold medal---also, his work rate and passion in the gym was almost Marcianoesque, his conditioning paid off. Sometimes, the more conditioned man will beat the more skilled man; Greg Haugen was one such individual who beat alot of men who would have kicked his ass had he not been such a work horse in the gym, based solely on Haugen's overall ability, which was limited in comparison to alot of the elite men of his time and weight class.
Qawi, imo, fell into that trap, for it was Holyfield's conditioning (which increased his work rate and ability to take punishment from a far more experienced fighter), in my opinion, combined with his amateur background and achievement, along with those 15 pro fights (maybe he was 11-0, I'm not sure cant quite remember), as well as the fact that the division was still relatively new. I think that is reasonable enough to believe.
Sorry bud you seem to be clutching at straws here. So now you reckon an inexperienced fighter, if well conditioned, can beat a world class fighter but a novice knockout artist couldn't knockout out a chinny experienced fighter? How do you come to that conclusion?
Holyfield was 11-0 going into the Qawi fight. He had been 8 rounds once and 6 rounds twice and the combined record of all his opponents was 137-80-10. Not one decent fighter on his resume. Yet he went 15 rounds with a good and tough world champion and beat him.
The reason he beat Qawi was he was the better fighter, absolutely nothing to do with his experience levels. You can be the fittest man in the world, if you can't fight it means nothing. Yes he was a good amateur but that accounts for nothing in the pro game as we know. Plenty of great amateurs were not successful as pros.
The cruiserweight division started in 1979 so has been around 7 years before Holyfield won the title, hardly still in its infancy. Qawi was one tough fighter and had been in with, and beaten, some great fighters. Plus the fight was over 15 rounds. Yes of course great conditioning is a factor but when was great conditioning needed by Tyson in his heyday?
And thats the point. Styles makes fights as I keep saying. There is no doubt in my mind that even a novice Tyson would knockout Williams or Spinks. I can't understand why you think they would beat him, what did they do to Tyson to give you that impression?
Tysons power and speed were immense even at 18. I don't see why Tyson would have needed to beat Jameson or Ferguson before he could beat Williams or Spinks? They are completely different fighters and obviously they could take Tysons punches better than Williams or Spinks could. Doesn't make them better fighters, just different.
You could have 100 pro fights and never fight anyone with Tysons or Ali's ability. Some fighters never fight southpaws, most never fight giants like Valuev. Until you fight these different fighters and styles you cannot draw the conclusion that the more experienced always wins. We know thats not the case.
Again if a 0-0-0 Rademacher could floor Patterson and last 6 rounds, then theres no argument in my mind that Liston wouldn't ko Patterson, even when Liston was a novice fighter.
ThatOne, Controversial, The Great John L, myself and many others have raged war all over this one....the battle continues on, its too big for the other thread, it needs its own!!! 
Cassius Clay (5-0-0) vs Ingemar Johansson (22-1-0), in 4 and 10 round scenarios, 1961 
