Classic American West Coast Boxing

Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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dagosd2000 wrote:Ray,sorry to hear about your Dad.My thoughts are with you. Rog. BTW.I thought Ingo had one of the best right hands in the history of the division. :bag:
Tom . . . I'm also sorry to hear about your father.

As far as Ingo's right hand is concerned, "Toonder & Lightning".
Eddie Machen found out the hard way. :KO:


-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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dagosd2000 wrote:Image

Image

Adam in action

Roger . . . In the mid 70's my Uncle worked on the Universal picture, "Midway".
It was a pretty good flick, I thought. Much of it was filmed aboard the legendary aircraft carrier.
Maybe Adam would enjoy watching it?


-
Last edited by Rick Farris on 13 Dec 2009, 21:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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The Idiot Ricky Hatton . . .

I've heard fighters say stupid things before, but this is a classic from Ricky Hatton.
Hatton wants to go out in a more impressive fashion than he did against Manny Pac.
So he would like to fight somebody he might have a chance with, a guy who he beat before on the way up.
He's hoping Kostya Tszyu, who is nearly 40, will make a comeback.
He really is trying to hype a potential fight. Hatton regarded his win over Tszyu the best of his career.
Below is a quote in which Hatton discusses Tszyu's place in ring history:
_______________
“To beat the universally undisputed champion as Kostya was recognized and I think he was number two pound-for-pound in the world,” he said. “If you look through the light welterweights through history, there’s not too many who have done what Kostya has done.”
_______________

I wonder how many light-welters from history Hatton is aware of?



-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Rick Farris wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Image

Image

Adam in action

Roger . . . In the mid 70's my Uncle worked on the Universal picture, "Midway".
It was a pretty good flick, I thought. Much of it was filmed aboard the legendary aircraft carrier.
Maybe Adam would enjoy watching it?


-
He sure would. Adam is one of those brainy kids.He went on a field trip last week to the Midway. He knows more about that ship than the admiral. We go to museums.He likes the Natural History Museum and The Aero Space Center. Amanda can socially acclimate herself with adults. Adam is more of a loner who entertains himself reading books.He knows everything. Just ask him. :lol:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Rick Farris wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Image

Carmen Basilio


The Onion Farmer . . .

The date was June 4, 1971. I was nineteen, and had been fighting professionally for exactly one year to the day.
On this warm evening I would have my 13th pro fight, a six-rounder on the undercard of a major world title card at the Forum.
This would be my first fight for legendary promoter George Parnassus, but I'd just be an opening act.

The main event was a big one, fifteen rounds for the world Welterweight championship, a rematch of an upset.
One of the greatest welterweights to ever hold the crown, Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles was once again the challenger.
The great Napoles had lost his crown just a few months previous to a heavy underdog, Billy Backus, in upstate New York.
The most noteable thing about Billy Backus was his trainer, who was also his uncle, former world champ, Carmen Basilio.

Carmen Basilio knew a thing or two about great welterweights, having held the 147 pound title himself.
He also knew about great champions, having stepped up and whipped Sugar Ray Robinson for the middleweight title.
He would bring into his nephew's corner a lot of experience, but unfortunatly he couldn't do the fighting for him.
Like the great Sugar Ray, Jose Napoles was more than just a champion, he was marked for all-time legend status himself.

The weigh-in was held in the ballroom of the Elks Building where Parnassus' office was located.
In those days, weigh-ins were held at 11am on the morning of a match, not the day before like today.
As usual, my friend Karl Nelson drove me to the weigh-in. The Elks building was located across the street from MacArthur Park.
As Karl and I enetered the Elks building, he looked across the lobby and spotted a very unique face.
Karl tapped me on the shoulder. "Look over there, that's Carmen Basilio."
I turned around and sure enough, there was the onion farmer from Canestota, one of the roughest men in boxing history.

Now with Basilio in my sights, I forgot about everything else. I'd grown up reading stories about Carmen Basilio.
This was the man who had beaten the great Sugar Ray, and had ended the ring career of L.A. "Golden Boy", Art Aragon.
The Onion Farmer wasn't the best looking man on the planet, that's for sure, but man could he fight.
Too bad he couldn't have done some of the fighting for his nephew that night.

Billy Backus was no match for the great Napoles, who stopped Billy, regaining his title.
I'd scored a close decision win in the opener that night. Later, after the title fight, I'd introduce myself to Carmen Basilio.
"You had a good fight kid, but you gotta stay off the ropes, or you'll end up looking like me."
I smiled, but he was serious. I was honored just to be talking to him.

When I became involved with the World Boxing Hall of Fame, I was hoping Dan Hanley and I could interview him.
Carmen Basilio would make the trip to California each year to attend the WBHOF banquet.
Dan and I planned to interview both Basilio and Gene Fullmer, who had fought each other back in the day.
Sadly, poor health has kept both Carmen Basilio and Fullmer from attending the last few WBHOF events.

Another great portrait by the "Painter of Champions", Roger Esty.


-Rick Farris

Rick
I remember when the return bout with Napoles was set up at the Forum. Someone told Basilio that his nephew would be up against it in front of all those Mexican fans.
"I don't give a G-d D--n. Those SOBS don't know how us Dagos don't give a s--t.We can get plenty mad too."
Billy got picked apart that night by the Master who still had enough in his tank to paint a masterpiece. I remember Dick Young and the doctors looking at Backus's eye. Some aficianado jumped into the ring and bumped Basilio. I thought Carmen was going to start a comeback. :bag: :box: :bag: :lol:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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ONE TOUGH SOB

Of course Basilio was my Dad's favorite. A Marine in WWII and Italian.I'm surprised my Dad didn't say we were somehow related to him. When Carmen beat Sugar Ray I thought my Father was going to start a petition to grant him Saint Hood.

With Italians,any Italian fighter was better than the guy he was fighting. Ray Robinson had beaten so many Italians he was hated more than Hannibal. Later when Basilio started to slip,it was hard for the greaseballs to digest.

I don't think Basilio relished being interviewed about boxing that much. Somehow it always got around to Robinson.Carmen didn't care for him. Sugar Ray was a treasure,but Basilio didn't like giving him too much credit. Basilio always thought Willie Pep was the greatest pound for pound.

In a way I'm glad that Italians have a blind faith for their goombas. Then again it shows their ignorance sometimes. My Father knew Carmen. I'm glad I didn't. I think if I would have asked him to be more objective when referring to Sugar Ray,I think Basilio would have told me to f--k myself.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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dagosd2000 wrote:ONE TOUGH SOB

Of course Basilio was my Dad's favorite. A Marine in WWII and Italian.I'm surprised my Dad didn't say we were somehow related to him. When Carmen beat Sugar Ray I thought my Father was going to start a petition to grant him Saint Hood.

With Italians,any Italian fighter was better than the guy he was fighting. Ray Robinson had beaten so many Italians he was hated more than Hannibal. Later when Basilio started to slip,it was hard for the greaseballs to digest.

I don't think Basilio relished being interviewed about boxing that much. Somehow it always got around to Robinson.Carmen didn't care for him. Sugar Ray was a treasure,but Basilio didn't like giving him too much credit. Basilio always thought Willie Pep was the greatest pound for pound.

In a way I'm glad that Italians have a blind faith for their goombas. Then again it shows their ignorance sometimes. My Father knew Carmen. I'm glad I didn't. I think if I would have asked him to be more objective when referring to Sugar Ray,I think Basilio would have told me to f--k myself.
Willo The Wisp . . .

Roger, I agree with Basilio. I believe that Willie Pep is the greatest boxer of all time.
I know he was a light hitter, but he would bust guys up, and he'd embarass them in the process.
Fabela Chavez is an L.A. featherweight legend. Willie Pep made him look ordinary.
We all know Fabela Chavez was not ordinary, he won Hap Navarro's respect, which is like gospel to me.
I'm no Dago, but my #1 favorite boxer is, Willie Pep.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

dagosd2000 wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:Image

Image

Adam in action

Roger . . . In the mid 70's my Uncle worked on the Universal picture, "Midway".
It was a pretty good flick, I thought. Much of it was filmed aboard the legendary aircraft carrier.
Maybe Adam would enjoy watching it?


-
He sure would. Adam is one of those brainy kids.He went on a field trip last week to the Midway. He knows more about that ship than the admiral. We go to museums.He likes the Natural History Museum and The Aero Space Center. Amanda can socially acclimate herself with adults. Adam is more of a loner who entertains himself reading books.He knows everything. Just ask him. :lol:

You should find a DVD of the movie, it shouldn't be hard. You two would enjoy watching it together, I believe. :TU:

=Rick
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Expug »

Rick Farris wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:ONE TOUGH SOB

Of course Basilio was my Dad's favorite. A Marine in WWII and Italian.I'm surprised my Dad didn't say we were somehow related to him. When Carmen beat Sugar Ray I thought my Father was going to start a petition to grant him Saint Hood.

With Italians,any Italian fighter was better than the guy he was fighting. Ray Robinson had beaten so many Italians he was hated more than Hannibal. Later when Basilio started to slip,it was hard for the greaseballs to digest.

I don't think Basilio relished being interviewed about boxing that much. Somehow it always got around to Robinson.Carmen didn't care for him. Sugar Ray was a treasure,but Basilio didn't like giving him too much credit. Basilio always thought Willie Pep was the greatest pound for pound.

In a way I'm glad that Italians have a blind faith for their goombas. Then again it shows their ignorance sometimes. My Father knew Carmen. I'm glad I didn't. I think if I would have asked him to be more objective when referring to Sugar Ray,I think Basilio would have told me to f--k myself.
Willo The Wisp . . .

Roger, I agree with Basilio. I believe that Willie Pep is the greatest boxer of all time.
I know he was a light hitter, but he would bust guys up, and he'd embarass them in the process.
Fabela Chavez is an L.A. featherweight legend. Willie Pep made him look ordinary.
We all know Fabela Chavez was not ordinary, he won Hap Navarro's respect, which is like gospel to me.
I'm no Dago, but my #1 favorite boxer is, Willie Pep.

Yep guys . Im a Carmen fan also. How could any guy not like Carmen. Hes a mans man.
As far as him not liking Robinson, I think it was a very genuine dislike. I remember Carmen saying in an interview it all started with a snub. Basilio was in New York early in his career and he saw Ray getting out of his pink caddy with an entourage , hangers on broads the whole bit.
Carmen went up to say hello or shake his hand or something and Robinson gave him the brush off. To a proud Italian man such as Carmen, that must have felt like a kick in the nutsack. Carmen may have even been with his wife at the time.
Bad move by Ray. From that point forward, he had it in for the Sugar man. Embarassing a guy like Basilio is a good way to get an ass kicking.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Expug »

Tom, your Dads in my prayers.
If you free up any time in Chicago give me a call. Also if you need anything call me also.

Brian
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Expug »

Rick Farris wrote:
Expug wrote:Rick, Randy Shields fought Cuevas at the Old Ampitheatre here in Chicago.
Its gone now, but THAT was a fun outstanding venue. It permenantley smelled of livestock as it used to host livestock/cattle auctions etc.
Boxing, wrestling,roller derby and concerts were the main events at that place. It was great. Tough neighborhood too. Right near the old union stockyards and on the edge of blue collar Irish "Canaryville". A great area for brawling no doubt.
Every corner tavern was a blue collar heaven for the beer and a shot crowd. In the "City of Broad shoulders",the Ampitheatre had to be the arena of broad shoulders and Canaryville the neighborhood of broad shoulders.You guys would have loved it.
It was the way Chicago used to be.
Starbucks? fu.k Fugedaboddit!
Thanks Brian. Appreciate the info and the history. We have a new member of the WBHOF board of directors, and that is Ken Green. Ken is an attorney working for the D.A. Office here in L.A. However he is a Chicago guy who grew up there, even wrote a book about his neighborhood. Ken still maintains a condo in Chicago and visits often. Ken is a good guy for boxing and boxing people. He has helped a number of boxing people with their legal issues, such as Freddie Roach. In fact, the day we met, Roger was there. He and Rog shared a few Chicago tales. Ken quizzed me one day, checking my Chicago boxing knowledge. I answered correctly, naming Bob Satterfield to answer the question. I always love to read stories related to Chicago and boxing in Chicago. As you mentioned, it was once a major fight town. So was NY and LA. No mas. :witzend:


-Rick Farris
Rick, when people discuss Chicago boxing, there is one guy who is often overlooked. He main evented at the old Chicago Stadium often . He was hugely popular and a helluva fighter who I wish people in Chicago boxing still remembered.
That would be the one and only Spider Webb. A real pros pro.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Roger, after you read this article give us your take.

Image
Sachi Cunningham / Los Angeles Times / October 29, 2009

Bob and Carol Dawson moved to Baja California in 1999, lured by the ease of early retirement, the idyllic views and the low cost of living. But friends and relatives have been reluctant to visit, scared away by reports of drug violence.

One man's war zone is another's paradise

From the insulated safety of Baja's luxurious seaside gated communities, American expatriates say reports of kidnappings and violent drug cartels seem a world away.

By Richard Marosi

December 14, 2009

Reporting from Rosarito Beach, Mexico - Bob and Carol Dawson love living in Baja California, but the region's violent reputation has put them on the defensive. They have been called delusional and reckless -- all because they choose to live in an oceanfront gated community about 30 or 40 miles and a world away from the U.S. border.

Americans living in this part of Mexico are often grilled, half-jokingly, about their sanity. They get asked whether they've seen decapitated heads rolling down the street. Friends wonder whether they wear bulletproof vests or drive around in armored cars.

When the Dawsons moved here in 1999 to retire, they were enticed by the area's charm and peacefulness. They bought an expansive home with ocean views for $175,000. "Live like a millionaire without a million bucks" is the local real estate mantra.

In recent years, the tranquillity has been eclipsed by the mayhem of battles between the Mexican government and organized crime. Military trucks brimming with heavily armed soldiers have rumbled through the manicured grounds of luxury developments; gunmen pepper local police stations with automatic-weapon fire; and Baja California's most notorious crime boss once eluded authorities by running through a beach popular among American retirees.

Since 2008, more than 1,000 Mexicans in the northern Baja California area have died in the drug violence. Rarely does a week go by without news of another person being beheaded or dissolved in acid or chopped up and left in a parked car.

But for most expatriates the violence seems as distant as headlines from Iraq. Along the 70-mile stretch of coastline from Tijuana to Ensenada, 14,000 Americans live in a bubble of relative security, many in gated developments or high-rise condominiums where they run a greater risk of being sideswiped by a golf cart or a wave-tossed surfer than staring down an AK-47-toting drug trafficker.

Not that expatriates are oblivious to the drug war. Bill Kirchhoff, the former city manager of Redondo Beach, said he suspects that some of the boaters speeding by his seaside house at Playa La Mision are drug traffickers. He's not moving back to the States any time soon, though, saying a few precautions can keep people out of harm's way.

"A lot of people simply don't understand the level of danger that exists in this kind of environment," he said. "But if you're aware of it, you can manage it to a great extent."

Bob Dawson, 66, said the dangers are exaggerated, but shares a pioneer attitude. "We're a different kind of breed even to try this," he said.

From the balcony of their home one row back from the ocean, the Dawsons can see dolphins dancing in the waves and pelicans gliding low over the surf break. Carol keeps watch for the first signs of migrating whales; Bob pours his locally famous margarita mix -- dubbed Bobby-Ritas -- for neighbors.

They just don't get many visitors.

Loved ones beg them to move and many won't visit, including their son-in-law, who for much of the last few years has refused to bring their grandsons to visit. "He thinks we live in a dream world," said Carol, 65. "But if I feared danger to my life, I wouldn't be here."

The curving, craggy coastline of northern Baja California, a one-hour drive from San Diego, was once a popular getaway for Southern California residents. They came for the solitude and the surf. They would unwind at gringo bars and spend weekends at funky beachfront hotels.

In recent years, the coastal stretch has taken on an upscale look with condominiums, spacious homes, bed-and-breakfasts, and spas rising on bluffs. In the nearby Guadalupe Valley, hacienda-style inns and wineries sit amid vineyards blanketing the tawny hills.

The area attracts a range of Americans. Young telecommuters and Internet entrepreneurs live alongside artists and urban refugees in hillside villages. Retirees enjoy five-star luxury resorts with vanishing-edge pools, private beaches and shuttle service to the border.

For less than $300,000, people can buy a spacious home on an 18-hole golf course at Baja Mar. Ocean-view houses with balconies and gardens can be had for $400,000.

"Look at this. I can't live in La Jolla like this," Richard Cargill, 66, said as he took in the ocean views from his deck at the Palacio Del Mar resort. The retired mortgage banker paid $490,000 for the 2,300-square-foot condominium one year ago. "I call this the smart man's San Diego."

For the Dawsons, the appeal was an early retirement. Bob, who used to own a paper packaging company, and Carol, a former flight attendant, cut their expenses 30% when they moved down from Santa Ana. They live in the Las Gaviotas development about six miles south of Rosarito Beach, where 298 homes sit behind high walls and visitors must pass through a gate manned 24 hours a day by security guards. There's a clubhouse, a pool, tennis courts and a promenade lined with mini-mansions that overlook the palapa-dotted beach.

After the Dawsons bought their home as a weekend getaway in 1996 they passed out keys to relatives, and their two daughters brought friends down on weekends. "This was a party house," Bob Dawson said.

In those days the beach and pool at Las Gaviotas teemed with families and children on weekends. "It was filled with laughter and noise," Carol Dawson said. "It was fun."

Five years ago, anticipating more visitors, the Dawsons expanded their house, adding two bedrooms, a bathroom and an elevator. They started a property management business catering to Americans who owned second homes in the area.

Then the troubles started.

The Mexican government's crackdown against organized crime struck Baja California in 2007. A few Americans fell victim to the upheaval late that year, when heavily armed men dressed as police pulled over a San Diego-area family on the coastal road. They pointed guns at their heads, pocketed cash and jewelry, and stole their truck and trailer.

That attack, along with the robbery of a surfer and the rape of his girlfriend on an isolated beach, was repeated in media accounts of Baja California violence. Though the situation has calmed considerably, some media outlets continue mentioning the incidents, angering residents and Mexican officials.

To the Dawsons, the recycled reports give the distorted impression that Americans are constantly under siege. Media coverage of "a shootout in the States lasts one day," Bob said. "We have a shootout here, and it lasts for years."

The negative publicity has taken its toll. At Las Gaviotas, dozens of houses sit empty, many with "For Sale" signs. Of the 11 homes managed by the Dawsons, not one was rented in September and only a few have been leased since.

Passing through the development's tall gates for a quick trip down the road to Rosarito Beach, the Dawsons encounter a somewhat shabby landscape of roadside coconut stands and shanties. They drive by construction-supply and appliance stores, restaurants and other businesses where owners have downsized or closed down because the expected influx of baby boomers never materialized.

The Dawsons point to the fancy Las Rocas resort, where their nephew's wedding was nearly spoiled in April when the maid of honor considered canceling because she was worried about crime. Security concerns have contributed to a shutdown of filmmaking at nearby Baja Studios; entertainment-industry workers on movies such as "Titanic" and "Master and Commander" once injected millions of dollars into the local economy.

Outside the studio gates, where a replica of a tall ship is docked, the Mexican military runs a northbound checkpoint. Masked marines with assault weapons question drivers. In the distance, another marine mans a .50-caliber machine gun.

A marine quickly waves the Dawsons through. "It makes me feel safe," Bob said as he passed the military's sign: "Welcome to Baja California. This is a routine military checkpoint."

Kirchhoff, the retired Redondo Beach city manager, feels uneasy whenever he comes to a checkpoint. "They're there for a reason and it's not a good one," he said.

Earlier this year, Baja California crime boss Teodoro Garcia Simental was believed to be at a party at an oceanfront resort a few miles from Kirchhoff's property, but he escaped onto the beach, according to officials and media reports.

Kirchhoff said federal police and soldiers scoured the area in helicopters, boats and trucks, and walked up the sand to search neighboring properties. "They were chasing some of the most heinous criminals in Baja. That ought to give anybody cause for concern," said Kirchhoff, 67.

But it's not enough to get him to leave his sprawling home perched over the beach and his four-acre ranch near- by. Kirchhoff and other expatriates who have been touched by crime -- usually home break-ins or petty theft -- have adapted to the risks. They drive junky cars, avoid late-night trips and stay away from crime hot spots like eastern Tijuana.

The Dawsons also have their own rules. They never carry large amounts of cash, and they keep a stash hidden in the car just in case they're robbed. The couple says they use the kind of common-sense rules that people follow in any community affected by serious crime, like Los Angeles or their former hometown. Carol says she feels safer in Las Gaviotas, where she leaves her front door unlocked.

"I heard gunfire in Santa Ana. I've never heard gunfire here," she said.

It's a point she's made countless times to her son-in-law, without success. "He was very hard-nosed about coming down here," she said. "He thought people were putting their children in danger."

A few weeks ago, Carol was returning from an errand when she was greeted at the front door by squeals of excitement. "Surprise, Grammy," yelled her two grandsons. Her son-in-law, seeing that crime has declined significantly from two years ago, made the trip from Laguna Niguel with his family.

It was like old times. The boys batted a Wiffle ball on the putting green, took walks on the beach with their three golden retrievers and played in the pool. Carol's daughter and son-in-law got side-by-side massages at a spa, played golf at Baja Mar, and the family dined at the La Fonda restaurant down the coast.

Carol Dawson and other expatriates see signs that things may be turning around. Some hotels are selling out on weekends and there are more surfers trickling down south of the border. Then there's her son-in-law's change of heart.

"I think he finally realized," she said, "that it can't be all that bad."

[email protected].
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Expug wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:ONE TOUGH SOB

Of course Basilio was my Dad's favorite. A Marine in WWII and Italian.I'm surprised my Dad didn't say we were somehow related to him. When Carmen beat Sugar Ray I thought my Father was going to start a petition to grant him Saint Hood.

With Italians,any Italian fighter was better than the guy he was fighting. Ray Robinson had beaten so many Italians he was hated more than Hannibal. Later when Basilio started to slip,it was hard for the greaseballs to digest.

I don't think Basilio relished being interviewed about boxing that much. Somehow it always got around to Robinson.Carmen didn't care for him. Sugar Ray was a treasure,but Basilio didn't like giving him too much credit. Basilio always thought Willie Pep was the greatest pound for pound.

In a way I'm glad that Italians have a blind faith for their goombas. Then again it shows their ignorance sometimes. My Father knew Carmen. I'm glad I didn't. I think if I would have asked him to be more objective when referring to Sugar Ray,I think Basilio would have told me to f--k myself.
Willo The Wisp . . .

Roger, I agree with Basilio. I believe that Willie Pep is the greatest boxer of all time.
I know he was a light hitter, but he would bust guys up, and he'd embarass them in the process.
Fabela Chavez is an L.A. featherweight legend. Willie Pep made him look ordinary.
We all know Fabela Chavez was not ordinary, he won Hap Navarro's respect, which is like gospel to me.
I'm no Dago, but my #1 favorite boxer is, Willie Pep.

Yep guys . Im a Carmen fan also. How could any guy not like Carmen. Hes a mans man.
As far as him not liking Robinson, I think it was a very genuine dislike. I remember Carmen saying in an interview it all started with a snub. Basilio was in New York early in his career and he saw Ray getting out of his pink caddy with an entourage , hangers on broads the whole bit.
Carmen went up to say hello or shake his hand or something and Robinson gave him the brush off. To a proud Italian man such as Carmen, that must have felt like a kick in the nutsack. Carmen may have even been with his wife at the time.
Bad move by Ray. From that point forward, he had it in for the Sugar man. Embarassing a guy like Basilio is a good way to get an ass kicking.

Brian . . . Robinson isn't as highly respected among a number of boxing people. Gene Fullmer is another guy who fought and defeated Sugar Ray more than once, he also doesn't care much for Robinson. Same goes for many promoters and matchmakers. Of course, most don't care about what a promoter thinks, considering the reputation of promoters. I know Mickey Davies said that Robinson had screwed a number or promoters over the years. Robby would get a big advance on a purse and then pull out of the fight. On the day he told me this story he was upset at Robinson for doing the same thing to him by not showing up at a PR event that Mickey had advanced him$500. to attend. "I offered him $300. and he insisted I give him $500. which I did. Now he doesn't show." When you talk about tough bastids, there was none tougher than Basilio and Fullmer.


-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Expug »

Thanks Rick.
Its also interesting that Fullmer and Basilio, at least to my knowledge, had a healthy respect for one another.
Two similar guys in attitude towards the fight game it would appear.
And you're right.They dont come any tougher than those two.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Two Los Angeles boxing guys

Image

The late Danny Valdivia (R) with former CSAC chief inspector Joey Olmos
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by scartissue »

Expug wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:
Expug wrote:Rick, Randy Shields fought Cuevas at the Old Ampitheatre here in Chicago.
Its gone now, but THAT was a fun outstanding venue. It permenantley smelled of livestock as it used to host livestock/cattle auctions etc.
Boxing, wrestling,roller derby and concerts were the main events at that place. It was great. Tough neighborhood too. Right near the old union stockyards and on the edge of blue collar Irish "Canaryville". A great area for brawling no doubt.
Every corner tavern was a blue collar heaven for the beer and a shot crowd. In the "City of Broad shoulders",the Ampitheatre had to be the arena of broad shoulders and Canaryville the neighborhood of broad shoulders.You guys would have loved it.
It was the way Chicago used to be.
Starbucks? fu.k Fugedaboddit!
Thanks Brian. Appreciate the info and the history. We have a new member of the WBHOF board of directors, and that is Ken Green. Ken is an attorney working for the D.A. Office here in L.A. However he is a Chicago guy who grew up there, even wrote a book about his neighborhood. Ken still maintains a condo in Chicago and visits often. Ken is a good guy for boxing and boxing people. He has helped a number of boxing people with their legal issues, such as Freddie Roach. In fact, the day we met, Roger was there. He and Rog shared a few Chicago tales. Ken quizzed me one day, checking my Chicago boxing knowledge. I answered correctly, naming Bob Satterfield to answer the question. I always love to read stories related to Chicago and boxing in Chicago. As you mentioned, it was once a major fight town. So was NY and LA. No mas. :witzend:


-Rick Farris
Rick, when people discuss Chicago boxing, there is one guy who is often overlooked. He main evented at the old Chicago Stadium often . He was hugely popular and a helluva fighter who I wish people in Chicago boxing still remembered.
That would be the one and only Spider Webb. A real pros pro.
Brian, earlier this year Rick and I were going over our lists that Rick presented at the Board of Directors for inclusion on the ballot and among the 5 or 6 I submitted, Spider Webb was one of them. He missed out, as did Bennie Briscoe whom we're really pushing for this year. But we'll see where it leads.

Scartissue
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Chuck1052 »

Tom, I join the other posters on this thread in saying that I am sorry that your father isn't doing well at this time.

- Chuck Johnston
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Chuck1052 »

If Spider Webb isn't in the California Boxing Hall of Fame, he deserves to be. Besides being a top middleweight in the pro ranks, he may have been one of the best college boxers ever. I think that he was on the Compton Junior College boxing team and then was on a boxing team at a four-year college in Idaho.

- Chuck Johnston
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Expug »

An equipment manager who works for The Chicago Bulls who I see at work all the time knows Spider.
He says he is or at least was down in Tennessee working in Law enforcement.
I believe he said Tenn. Down south anyway.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Brian . . . Like Dan just posted, Spider Webb was one of several we had on our list this year, but did not make the ballot.
Bennie Briscoe will be on the ballot this year, and I think Spider Webb has a good chance, as well. This year, Mando Muniz and I have decided to clear several names off the ballot that have been listed now for several years and failed to garner any votes. Several are not of the quality of Spider Webb. This will leave room for more than the usual four names added to replace the prvious year's winners. Although I am chairman of the selection committee, there are a few others whom also have choices so I cannot promise it will happen.

At the moment, I know of four names that will definitly be added to this year's ballot in the "Boxer" catagory:
Mike Tyson, J.C. Chavez, Jose Legra and Bennie Briscoe. With the elimination of several names that have not received any votes, I will hopefully be able to put Spider Webb in the mix.

Also, this year's "Posthumous" catagory inductees (which receieve automatic induction without vote) will be Bernard Docusen and Tiger Jack Fox, at least that is what Mando and I have planned.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spider Webb

birth date 1931-11-20
middleweight
height 5′ 9½″ / 177cm
residence Chicago, Illinois, United States
birth place Tulsa, OK
birth name Ellsworth Webb
won 34 (KO 19) + lost 6 (KO 1) + drawn 0 = 40
rounds boxed 260 KO% 47.5



1961-04-15 159¾ Dick Tiger 160¼ 40-14-2
St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, United States L KO 6 10
~ time: 2:41 | referee: Arthur Mercante 0-5 | judge: Tony Rossi 0-5 | judge: Bill Recht 1-3 ~
Webb was down once in the 2nd, and twice in the 6th. Mercante and Rossi gave all five rounds to Tiger, Recht scored one even and gave the rest to Tiger.

1960-02-26 162¼ Rory Calhoun 163 43-8-2
Cow Palace, San Francisco, California, United States W SD 10 10
~ referee: Jack Downey 96-94 | judge: Vern Bybee 93-97 | judge: Eddie James 97-93 ~
Webb was knocked down for a seven-count in the 2nd round.

1959-12-04 157¾ Gene Fullmer 159¾ 50-4-0
George Nelson Field House, Logan, Utah, United States L UD 15 15
~ referee: Ken Shulsen 141-147 | judge: Del Markham 138-148 | judge: Boyd Mattinson 132-150 ~
~ National Boxing Association World middleweight title ~

1959-04-22 158 Neal Rivers 159 42-9-2
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W TKO 4 10
~ time: 2:49 | referee: Joey White ~
Rivers reportedly had a record of winning 45 of 56 starts, 27 by knockout coming into this fight

1959-02-25 158 Bobby Boyd 160 52-10-3
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W TKO 1 10
~ time: 1:55 | referee: Frank Sikora ~
Boyd was knocked down twice.

1958-12-09 158½ Terry Downes 159½ 18-3-0
Empire Pool, Wembley, London, United Kingdom W TKO 8 10x3
~ referee: Eugene Henderson ~
Cut stops the bout.

1958-11-19 158¾ Joey Giardello 159 80-15-5
Cow Palace, San Francisco, California, United States W TKO 7 10
~ time: 1:30 | referee: Vern Bybee ~
Bout stopped because of a bad cut under Giardello's left eye.

1958-09-11 159¼ Gene Fullmer 159½ 45-4-0
Derks Field, Salt Lake City, Utah, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Harry Kessler 94-96 | judge: Frankie Carter 93-97 | judge: Vern Bybee 95-97 ~

1958-07-30 162½ Franz Szuzina 161¾ 44-19-14
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States W TKO 7 10
~ time: 1:20 | referee: Harry Kessler ~
Webb was a substitute for Gene Fullmer.

1958-06-24 159½ Dick Tiger 161¾ 31-9-1
Earls Court Empress Hall, Kensington, London, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
1958-05-30 160 Jimmy Beecham 161 23-6-1
Auditorium, Miami Beach, Florida, United States W SD 10 10
~ referee: Cy Gottfried 95-98 | judge: Carl Gardner 98-94 | judge: Gus Jacobson 97-95 ~

1958-03-12 157½ Holley Mims 154¼ 42-16-6
Coliseum, Fort Wayne, Indiana, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Dick Patton 45-48 | judge: Bob Stranahan 44-49 | judge: Pete LaCross 44-49 ~
Webb was knocked down for a nine count in the 6th.

1958-01-20 158½ Rory Calhoun 160 31-2-1
Cow Palace, San Francisco, California, United States W KO 4 10
~ time: 2:21 | referee: Jack Downey ~

1957-11-01 158½ Willie Vaughn 160½ 35-16-9
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Barney Felix 6-3 | judge: Artie Aidala 7-3 | judge: Bert Grant 6-4 ~

1957-10-16 160 Jackie LaBua 157½ 28-11-0
Exposition Center, Louisville, Kentucky, United States W KO 1 10
~ time: 0:59 ~

1957-08-08 157½ Charley Joseph 158½ 39-5-2
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W MD 10 10
~ 49-42 | 45-45 | 48-43 ~

1957-06-18 160 Charley Joseph 159 38-5-2
Municipal Auditorium, New Orleans, Louisiana, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Roland Brown 4-6 | judge: Frederick Adams 4-4 | judge: Ernie Cojoe 4-4 ~
Webb was down for an eight count in the 6th. Both judges gave Joseph the decision.

1957-04-17 160 Randy Sandy 157 19-5-1
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Bernie Weismann 47-46 | judge: John Bray 47-44 | judge: Harold Marovitz 49-44 ~

1957-03-13 159½ Wilf Greaves 161¼ 12-5-1
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Frank Sikora 49-42 | judge: Jim McManus 50-41 | judge: E. Allen Frankel 48-41 ~

1957-02-15 158 Neal Rivers 159 32-4-1
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Harry Kessler 9-1 | judge: Frank Forbes 9-1 | judge: Arthur Schwartz 8-1 ~
Webb was credited with scoring a knockdown in the 10th, when Rivers swung and missed and fell to the canvas.

1956-12-19 158½ Pat McAteer 157½ 45-2-0
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W TKO 2 10
McAteer was down three times.

1956-11-24 157 Charley Green 160 38-20-3
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Tommy Hart 94-88 | judge: John Thomas 96-92 | judge: Russ Bradford 99-90 ~

1956-10-10 156 Charley Cotton 154 40-11-1
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Frank Sikora | judge: Harold Marovitz | judge: Franklin Spike McAdams ~

1956-08-29 156½ Rory Calhoun 162 23-0-0
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Joey White 46-44 | judge: Howard Walsh 46-45 | judge: Lou Caparelli 45-44 ~

1956-07-18 157½ Holley Mims 157 41-14-5
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Frank Sikora 100-89 | judge: Harold Marovitz 99-91 | judge: Franklin Spike McAdams 97-90 ~

1956-06-06 George Boddie 12-7-5
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W PTS 6 6
1956-05-16 163 Irvin Thatch 163 2-0-0
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W KO 1 6
1954-03-17 159 Bobby Boyd 159 27-4-0
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W TKO 6 10
1954-02-23 158 Jesse Fuentes 158 14-3-0
Madison Square Garden, Phoenix, Arizona, United States W TKO 2 10
1954-02-09 155 Jimmy Martinez 153 56-10-6
Madison Square Garden, Phoenix, Arizona, United States W TKO 6 10
1954-01-13 158 Jimmy Martinez 156 56-9-6
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W KO 1 8
1953-12-29 158 Jesse Gray 160 11-16-3
Rainbo Arena, Chicago, Illinois, United States W TKO 3 4
1953-12-15 160 Lloyd Triplett 163 17-4-2
Rainbo Arena, Chicago, Illinois, United States W KO 3 4
1953-11-09 159 Andy Anderson 157 18-32-8
Fort Wayne, Indiana, United States W PTS 6 6
1953-10-01 161½ Lou Berry 163 5-7-1
Motor City Arena, Detroit, Michigan, United States W TKO 2 6
1953-09-14 135 Billy Sinn 157 3-1-1
Veterans Memorial Stadium, Saginaw, Michigan, United States W PTS 6 6
1953-08-28 162 Doug Winslow 163
Victory Field, Indianapolis, Indiana, United States W KO 3 4
1953-07-22 Jimmy (Red) Elby 22-15-1
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States L PTS 6 6
1953-07-13 162 Don Carpenter 165 1-0-0
Rainbo Arena, Chicago, Illinois, United States W KO 2 4
1953-07-01 Jimmy Johnson 1-5-1
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, United States W KO 2 4
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by raylawpc »

I think it is a real tragedy that one of the greatest fighters in Japanese history - 3 time junior middleweight champion Koichi Wajima - continues to be ignored. . .

With all due respect to Spider Webb and Bennie Briscoe, neither won a world championship . . . much less three in the very competitive division that was the junior middleweights of the 1970s.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Chuck1052 wrote:If Spider Webb isn't in the California Boxing Hall of Fame, he deserves to be. Besides being a top middleweight in the pro ranks, he may have been one of the best college boxers ever. I think that he was on the Compton Junior College boxing team and then was on a boxing team at a four-year college in Idaho.

- Chuck Johnston
Chuck....Webb is on this year's CBHOF list to be voted on....
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by raylawpc »

Frank, a very old timer that you might give some consideration to is "Professor" Walter Watson, who was the original boxing instructor at the Olympic Club in San Francisco. He was Jim Corbett's first teacher and schooled a number of young boxers - such as DeWitt Van Court - who became prominent fixtures in California boxing the the early 1900s. Arguably, Watson was the "father" of California boxing in the MoQ era.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

raylawpc wrote:Frank, a very old timer that you might give some consideration to is "Professor" Walter Watson, who was the original boxing instructor at the Olympic Club in San Francisco. He was Jim Corbett's first teacher and schooled a number of young boxers - such as DeWitt Van Court - who became prominent fixtures in California boxing the the early 1900s. Arguably, Watson was the "father" of California boxing in the MoQ era.
Will keep him in mind, Tom, thanks.... :TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Spider Webb

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