Roy Harris of Cut and Shoot Texas(former hw challenger)

[Brutu]

Nice article concerning Roy Harris on the Golden anniversary of his title shot against Floyd Patterson August-18-1958.

http://www.hcnonline.com/articles/2008/ ... harris.txt

[Brutu]

Roy Harris also fought up and coming top contender Sonny Liston in Houston Texas April 1960,
There had been a lot of interest in that fight
which had been the main event on a closed-circuit broadcast
shown mainly in the Southern eastern United States.

[Brutu]

Here is another link to some rare film footage of Roy Harris in his younger days training for the fight with Floyd Patterson in 1958.
Talk about vintage Americana.
btw, Is that the voice of Dr.Quest from Johnny Quest narrating?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a57WGGlhOxA

[dempseyfire]

Harris was a good boxer (he beat Pastrano,Lavorante, and a past-it Baker, not a bad resume) but undersized and lacked a big punch.

[raylawpc]

Roy is semi-retired and practices law in Plano, Texas with his lovely daughter Ronda.

[HomicideHenry]

Harris unfortunately gets dismissed by people today as easy fodder for Patterson, but imho, if Harris was fighting today he would be undisputed Cruiserweight champion of the world.

[raylawpc]

Interesting comment, Hank. I knew several Texans who were active in the game during the 1950s, and I can't recall any of them being sold on Harris' abilities. What makes you say that?

[HomicideHenry]

For being a smaller heavyweight, he was tough and could hold his own against the best guys of the mid 1950's. He went twelve with Patterson who had tremendous hand speed and was also a fast paced, conditioned, small heavyweight. He gave guys like Pastrano and Besmanoff hard fought fights, and he could hold his own against men who had superior size and reach advantages like Bob Baker and Charley Norkus. After losing to Patterson he gave Bygraves hell, and then began to go downhill. He was passed it when he fought Cooper and Cleroux and Liston. I think he would have made Cruiserweight champion today. Guys like BJ Flores who mill the division today would of had their hands full with Harris. Harris versus the likes of Hide, Haye, Adamek, Cunningham, etc would be interesting bouts.

[raylawpc]

Maybe, given the dirth of talent in the division today.

But the folks I knew from Texas (who were active in his era) were kind of "Ho-Hum" about his abilities when I asked about him. As I recall, he was also criticized by some for failing to defend his Texas State Heavyweight Title against Cleveland Williams. (At the time I was active in the game and before, boxing people in Texas took state championships VERY seriously.)

[HomicideHenry]

Maybe, given the dirth of talent in the division today.

But the folks I knew from Texas (who were active in his era) were kind of "Ho-Hum" about his abilities when I asked about him. As I recall, he was also criticized by some for failing to defend his Texas State Heavyweight Title against Cleveland Williams. (At the time I was active in the game and before, boxing people in Texas took state championships VERY seriously.)

State championships, back then, were taken as serious business. I can see where there would be some misgivings about that. But, imo, you cant judge a guy for not defending a state title, especially when he's beating world class guys like Besmanoff and Pastrano. Williams/Harris would have been interesting, though, I do admit.

[John Galt]

HH, Cruiserweights of today have 24-48 hour prior to the fight weigh-ins. Sonny Liston, Ali, Tyson, and Foreman could have made 200 lbs. and then be back at their best fight weight by fight time. If Harris was fighting at 195 without having to cut weight, he could probably fight at 175 today and quite possibly at 168.

These fighters don't cut muscle, they just dehydrate themselves to make weight and then rehydrate themselves. Even among small fighters it isn't unusual to see a fighter 15 pounds heavier on fight night than at the weighin. Bigger fighters can lose and gain more. The weight divisions are not the same today, the early weighin has changed the size of the fighters.

[raylawpc]

Maybe, given the dirth of talent in the division today.

But the folks I knew from Texas (who were active in his era) were kind of "Ho-Hum" about his abilities when I asked about him. As I recall, he was also criticized by some for failing to defend his Texas State Heavyweight Title against Cleveland Williams. (At the time I was active in the game and before, boxing people in Texas took state championships VERY seriously.)

State championships, back then, were taken as serious business. I can see where there would be some misgivings about that. But, imo, you cant judge a guy for not defending a state title, especially when he's beating world class guys like Besmanoff and Pastrano. Williams/Harris would have been interesting, though, I do admit.

No, I mentioned it only because that might have tainted their view of Harris a bit. Those guys all thought Williams would have cleaned Harris' clock.

[HomicideHenry]

HH, Cruiserweights of today have 24-48 hour prior to the fight weigh-ins. Sonny Liston, Ali, Tyson, and Foreman could have made 200 lbs. and then be back at their best fight weight by fight time. If Harris was fighting at 195 without having to cut weight, he could probably fight at 175 today and quite possibly at 168.

These fighters don't cut muscle, they just dehydrate themselves to make weight and then rehydrate themselves. Even among small fighters it isn't unusual to see a fighter 15 pounds heavier on fight night than at the weighin. Bigger fighters can lose and gain more. The weight divisions are not the same today, the early weighin has changed the size of the fighters.

Its too bad HW's dont cut weight and stay that way today either. IMO, Harris' optimum fighting weight probably should have been 185. He did well for 195 without cutting the weight, but either way he'd still be a Cruiserweight today. Myself I'm not a big fan of the whole dehydration, rehydration process, I think it causes more harm than good to the fighters themselves, and is a big problem among the lighter weights---brain damage is all the more common among smaller fighters because of this, imo. If you dont have it, you simply just dont have it. No need to cut weight and then gain it back just to have a few extra pounds behind your punches.

[dempseyfire]

I think the extreme dehydration and quick rehydration cycle done by most fighters below heavyweight is one reason that the stamina of modern fighters is by and large inferior to their counterparts 30 years back and prior. You can't treat your body like a sponge and expect to not suffer consequences.

[John Galt]

a

[Brutu]

Roy Harris was already in shape but his weight was 186 lbs before he started training to fight Patterson .
His trainer(BIll Gore) fed him steaks and it was hoped he would come in at 195 lbs for the fight.

[Brutu]

Wasnt the Roy Harris/Bob Baker fight in 1957 the first Black/White fight allowed to take place in Texas?

[raylawpc]

So Baker claimed.

The first interracial bout in Texas was between Sporty Harvey and Buddy Turman on February 24, 1955 in Dallas, Texas.

[Brutu]

Jack Johnson fought Joe Choynski in Gavelstone Tx. in 1901,
but that doesnt really count of course,as
they were both thrown in the klink afterward.

[raylawpc]

Well, it was the first fight since a statute had been passed in 1933 banning segregated bouts in Texas. Sporty had to sue for his right to participate in a interracial bout. So, it was certainly the first interracial fight since Texas officially banned interracial bouts.

[Brutu]

I read where Jack Johnson avoided traveling in the Southern U.S.A for most of his career
up until the 1940's anway.Reportly he toured Texas with a traveling tent show.
Do you have a list of those appearences he did in Texas?

[raylawpc]

No.

[granberry]

His fight against Liston showed how superior Liston was.

He couldn't last one round against (the real) Liston.

[Caractacus]

Here is another link to some rare film footage of Roy Harris in his younger days training for the fight with Floyd Patterson in 1958.
Talk about vintage Americana.
btw, Is that the voice of Dr.Quest from Johnny Quest narrating?

[Caractacus]

Roy 'Cut NN Shoot "Harris passed away just last August (age 90 years)