Danny Green is a SMW!

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 09 Jan 2005, 03:08

First off, this site is beatiful, keep up the good work guys! Now as a fan of Danny Green I would like to point out that Boxrec has him in the Lightheavyweight rankings, even though he is a Supermiddleweight! He has taken two over-the-weight limit fights since his last title fight at Supermiddleweight, but is already scheduled to fight Beyer for the title again, at Supermiddleweight!!! If it is customary for Boxrec to switch fighters' divisions like this between title fights, it really becomes pointless as you have to switch them back come fight time, and it just confuses everything, so it must change! Danny Green back to the SMW ranks, thanks from the land of Kiwis!!!

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 12 Jan 2005, 13:37

Hello, does anybody even read these things?!? Green back to SMW!!!

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 12 Jan 2005, 13:49

Yes, people read these things, and nobody is going to move Green, because he weighed 173.75 in his last fight. We do not apply weight classifications by request of people or managers, because if we changed Green, we would have to apply the same principals to the hundreds of other fighters that might be in the same boat.

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 15 Jan 2005, 18:45

tegenm, no you wouldnt have to apply it to hundreds of fighters. You could just manually apply it to the top ten of each division, or top twenty. This should be done to keep your ratings realistic! I mean no other ratings in the world have Danny rated at lightheavy!

Brett Paul Dunbar · Post by **Brett Paul Dunbar** » 17 Jan 2005, 10:41

Is there any actual reason that a fighter cannot be ranked at more than one weight simultaneously?

Say if a boxer has either fought at a given weight in the last year or holds a title at a weight then he gets ranked at that weight. It isn't that uncommon for a boxer to fight fairly regularly at more than one weight.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 17 Jan 2005, 11:16

What standard would you use to move a guy like Green to SMW? Public opinion, what he wants? I don't know how that could be applied to 340 fighters fairly. I don't think Green fits any standard, based on his weight.

Brett Paul Dunbar · Post by **Brett Paul Dunbar** » 17 Jan 2005, 22:00

To expand my earlier suggestion, rank a fighter at all weight in which he has either fought in the last, say, twelve months, holds a title in, or has a fight scheduled.

In the case of Danny Green he would then be ranked at both Super Middle and Light Heavy.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » 18 Jan 2005, 03:08

FWIW,

Association of Boxing Commissions
Criteria for the Ratings of Professional Boxers
(Amended July 20, 2004)
http://abcboxing.com/
Criteria #3. No boxers can be rated in more than one division
I would think the fighter would want to fight at his optimum weight;

What are division categories for?

Brett Paul Dunbar · Post by **Brett Paul Dunbar** » 18 Jan 2005, 09:44

That's official rankings, which are maually determined and cover a relatively small number of boxers, Boxrec's rankings are unofficial, automated and cover a very large number of boxers. So I'm not sure that's really applicable.
If you were to set every boxer's weight class manually, then Danny Green would be classified as a Super Middleweight. However if you are going to use a fully automated system then classifiying a fighter purely by his weight in his last fight is going to put some fighters in the wrong category. At least with allowing multiple weight categories a boxer wil be classified in the right weight class as well as any wrong weight classes.

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 19 Jan 2005, 03:56

Blue/tegenm, no, dont put boxers into different divisions, and dont go by what they "want", either.

Scan the top ten of each division you rate, and see if the boxers have any title fights scheduled. If they do, rate them in the division that the title(s) theyre fighting for correspond to.

OK, now, a second issue, very related to his one, has come up. I posted about this on another thread, but in the wrong forum. Can one of you editors fix this in the ratings, or at the least explain this travesty?

"Alright, so now Hugo Hernan Garay is placed at #13 at lightheavyweight...and he's in the exact same boat as Danny Green, he's fought 2 over the limit fights!!!

In his last 2 fights, both Garay and his opponent weighed in at significantly over 175 lbs! And yet he is placed back into the light heavy ratings, whereas my boy Danny Green has fought twice over the 168 lbs limit and is put into the light heavy ratings, instead of supermiddleweight? BOTH have title fights scheduled, Garay at 175 and Green at 168, and yet Garay gets moved down to his real division, and Green is not?

So dont tell me the ratings are automatic!

If thats the case than how come Garay and Green are following different rules?!?"

Todd Hodgson · Post by **Todd Hodgson** » 19 Jan 2005, 10:43

Garay wasn't close enough to 190 to be considered a cruiserweight, I think that's how the logic goes here. Green was near the light-heavyweight limit in his last fight.

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 19 Jan 2005, 16:04

Close enough to 190?

That makes no sense! Everything over 175 is cruiserweight. Garay and his opponents were BOTH over 175 in both of Garay's last two fights. In his last fight, he was 181 1/4 lbs and his opponent was 183 3/4 lbs. Tht is significantly into cruiser territory.

Garay is in the EXACT same position as Green. There is NO DIFFERENCE between the case to move Garay to light heavy and the case to move Danny to SMW!!!

Editors, if your going to move Garay down to Lightheavy, you have to move Green down to Supermiddleweight!!!!

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 19 Jan 2005, 17:34

To use an example; if Winky Wright manages to sign a contract to fight Bernard Hopkins for the Middleweight title, I don't think he deserves to be rated as a Middleweight, until he has had a fight in that division.

Petu v.d. Pajm · Post by **Petu v.d. Pajm** » 19 Jan 2005, 18:17

At least one obvious case where I do NOT think a fighter should be rated according to his last fight is whenever a reigning champion takes over-the-weight non-title fight. If he retains his title and is planned to defend it, it seems strange to move him up to a division where he ain't the champion. I think this happened for a while to Oscar larios lately.

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 19 Jan 2005, 23:27

You guys are missing the point.

Like I said: "Garay is in the EXACT same position as Green. There is NO DIFFERENCE between the case to move Garay to light heavy and the case to move Danny to SMW!!! "

Someone please deal with the issue at hand. Thanks

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 20 Jan 2005, 02:24

Somebody listened! There is justice in this world! Deepest thanks to whichever editor fixed this little mishap!

Now, onto the next Danny Green thread...why is Shannan Taylor rated above Green?!? This is a travesty!!!

Only kidding

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 20 Jan 2005, 03:05

I'd be curious to here why it was changed, especially after the person who did it, sang a different tune earlier in the thread.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » 20 Jan 2005, 05:20

U are welcome to change them back if U like, Matt.

I just thought I would try & make some sense of what is happening and not be so rigid.
The real problem is BoxRec ratings are automatically tied to the records as far as official weights, :( (but not official results)

I’m from the old school that follow the reason that the purpose of ratings is to determine objectively who deserves a shot at the title.
So I’m in agreement with Axe’s answer to my post.
Scan the top ten of each division you rate, and see if the boxers have any title fights scheduled. If they do, rate them in the division that the title(s) theyre fighting for correspond to.
Hugo Hernan Garay was moved by another editor to the 175 division because he is fighting for that division title.
So I moved Danny Green & Howard Eastman down to the divisions they are challenging in.

I also agree with Petu v.d. Pajm who wrote;
whenever a reigning champion takes over-the-weight non-title fight. If he retains his title and is planned to defend it, it seems strange to move him up to a division where he ain't the champion. I think this happened for a while to Oscar larios lately.
We now have a scenario where 122lb champion Joan Guzman is rated 2 divisions above the division he holds the title in.

IIRC, the ratings were started on site for our “enjoyment”.

Instead it’s become a thorn in our side.

I personally have come to the conclusion that ratings are nothing but a publicist tool and have taken away the true meaning of titles.

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 20 Jan 2005, 18:24

Blue for President!

Axe · Post by **Axe** » 02 Feb 2005, 00:21

Blue someone changed it again today! Please move Green back down to SMW!