The Ali-Frazier- Trilogy V Ali-Shavers lll

[ThatOne]

Joe Frazier likes to take responsibiliy for Ali's present condition and even Ali's fight doctor and friend of nearly fifty years, Dr. Ferdie Pacheco, endorses or at least lends some credence to that notion.

I have recently watched the trillogy for the umpteenth time and it seems Earnie Shavers landed more horrific shots to Ali's head than Frazier did during their entire trilogy. Granted Frazier worked Ali's body in the first and third fight but I don't think you get neurological damage from body shots.


As an aside if you include the amateurs and sparring Muhammad Ali must have boxed 20,000 rounds...

[generic screen name]

It's all of the shots that he absorbed. Against Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, Holmes, Norton. Total accumulation. Especially when he was older and slower on the feet.

[ThatOne]

It's all of the shots that he absorbed. Against Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, Holmes, Norton. Total accumulation. Especially when he was older and slower on the feet.

That's what I think.

BTW, IMHO, he was visibly tired in The Thrilla. In the Shavers fight he was visibly rocked.

[Brutu]

In looking at the fight video,it wasnt the first right hand that Shavers claimed really hurt Ali when he clinched and made faces,but the second
when he was alongside the ropes that looked like it really hurt him.

[ThatOne]

In looking at the fight video,it wasnt the first right hand that Shavers claimed really hurt Ali when he clinched and made faces,but the second
when he was alongside the ropes that looked like it really hurt him.

Shavers hit him with punches that would have dropped a horse. Larry Holmes said "no boxer should have absorbed those punches."

[yancey]

Joe Frazier likes to take responsibiliy for Ali's present condition and even Ali's fight doctor and friend of nearly fifty years, Dr. Ferdie Pacheco, endorses or at least lends some credence to that notion.

I have recently watched the trillogy for the umpteenth time and it seems Earnie Shavers landed more horrific shots to Ali's head than Frazier did during their entire trilogy. Granted Frazier worked Ali's body in the first and third fight but I don't think you get neurological damage from body shots.


As an aside if you include the amateurs and sparring Muhammad Ali must have boxed 20,000 rounds...

Joe + the Doc are right, imo. "Frazeritis" is what some call it.

I suggest you watch the triology again with maybe a different pair of glasses.

Dundee has said that one of the hooks Frazier hit Ali in the head with in Manila was the hardest Ali was ever hit.

I've alway thought an attrition puncher (Frazier) could render more damage to the noggin than a concussive puncher (Shavers).

I suspect it to be true in the case of Ali.

[Goodnight, Irene]

The fourth line of Yancey's post is the most telling in this thread, so far. That's the reason Boxing is fundamentally more hazardous than MMA --- even though one appears more out-right brutal, it is the sustained beating, over a prolonged period (in the context of both individual fights, & a collective career) which produce the worst damage. Also, while bodyshots do not directly concuss the brain, the stress of a fight with Frazier placed on the total body (brain, inclusive) does, in fact, hurt the brain long-term. He also happened to absolutely thump Ali's head on occasion. The left hook (going from memory, here) at the start of, I think, round six in The Thrilla In Manila, & the two lefts in round 15 of The Fight Of The Century, were classic examples.

I think it's a fair conclusion to say Frazier did more damage than any other single individual, but, at the same time, Ali sustained lasting damage throughout his career.

[generic screen name]

It's all of it. C'mon, a human being is not supposed to absorb that much punishment. That's one reason why these guys usually don't have a long life. These fighters put themselves through alot of anguish that I cannot even fathom especially mentally and physically. Its impossible to pinpoint which guy did the most damage, we're not his doctor nor him himself.

[Goodnight, Irene]

You don't think it's a reasonable conclusion to draw --- the idea that the man Ali personally stated hurt him the worst overall, & in the most aspects of fighting --- & one of (clearly, the more punishing of the pair) only two men he fought three times (big hitters, like Foreman, Lyle & Shavers only got one shot, & Liston effectively only fought him once) conceivably did more to diminish Ali than any other career foe, between 1960 & 1981?

Not saying it's shoo-in logic, but the footage is there for all to see...

[Ezzard]

Terribly morbid thread...

[granberry]

Joe Frazier likes to take responsibiliy for Ali's present condition and even Ali's fight doctor and friend of nearly fifty years, Dr. Ferdie Pacheco, endorses or at least lends some credence to that notion.

I have recently watched the trillogy for the umpteenth time and it seems Earnie Shavers landed more horrific shots to Ali's head than Frazier did during their entire trilogy. Granted Frazier worked Ali's body in the first and third fight but I don't think you get neurological damage from body shots.


As an aside if you include the amateurs and sparring Muhammad Ali must have boxed 20,000 rounds...

Joe + the Doc are right, imo. "Frazeritis" is what some call it.

I suggest you watch the triology again with maybe a different pair of glasses.

Dundee has said that one of the hooks Frazier hit Ali in the head with in Manila was the hardest Ali was ever hit.

I've alway thought an attrition puncher (Frazier) could render more damage to the noggin than a concussive puncher (Shavers).

I suspect it to be true in the case of Ali.

Yep.

The human punching bag.

Who the clueless media claim had a perfect 'defense.'