Modern Day Bare Knucklers

[HomicideHenry]

So Potter's still the EBF HW champion then of the unlicensed circuit?

Interesting.

[Wales]

Michael gomez now fight on the EBF circuit as does Eugene montenegro & jamie hearn amongst others.

i think Sven hamer is the EBF HW champion.

[HomicideHenry]

Am gonna have to look up the EBF 'lineal' history to be sure.

[Wales]

EBF has kind of become a franchise. You can set up unlicenced events to set guidelines and use the EBF banner. You must have medics and set weight guidelines etc... but I think the banner is used by many on the unlicenced circuit as its well a known "brand".

[HomicideHenry]

SUPER-HEAVYWEIGHT
1. DAZ DAVIS
2. ERIC THE VIKING
3. CARL ETHERINGTON
4. JOHN LEWIS
5. BUTTERBEAN (USA)
6. BRENDAN TINGLE
7. ANT SIMPSON
8. DAVE CLARK
9. PAUL FISK
10. JOHN GREENWELL

HEAVYWEIGHT
1. MARK POTTER
2. CHRIS BACON
3. ERIC THE VIKING
4. ANDREW STEEL
5. KEV TAYLOR
6. PAUL VERNER
7. JOHN LEWIS
8. WAYNE BUCK (ENGLISH CHAMPION)
9. CARL BEARD
10. IAN TOBY

CRUISERWEIGHT
1. CHRIS BACON
2. IAN COOPER
3. TONY ROBBO
4. JOE ERP
5. FRANKIE GRAHAM
6. SARGE SINGH (ENGLISH CHAMPION)
7. WES SMITH
8. ROB WILSON
9. ANDY FLINT
10. GARY FIRBY

According to the EBF website these are the rankings of the Cruiser/Heavy/Super Heavyweight divisions. Still shows Mark Potter with the EBF championship belt though.

[HomicideHenry]

I wonder if you could consider the EBF 'semi-pro' boxing, considering its unsanctioned. Or would you call the Toughman contests semi-pro, considering pros and amateurs and street brawlers can join in.

[Wales]

I understand it this way. The term proffessional is used for someone who is paid to do something full time. Semi proffessional is the term for someone paid to do something, but they also do something else for full income. i.e a postmas who plays football for £100 a game would be a semi-pro footballer. So I suppose in boxing there are semi-pro and pro fighters. EBF would be solely semi-pro fighters I'd guess. nobody there would make aiving form solely fighting in the EBF.

tell you what, I'd pay to watch Chris Bacon and Mark Potter at Heavyweight. Mark might eb a little too big for Chris though.

Dissapointed Chris has dropped his "P" nickename. his name was always Chris P Bacon. He often came down to the ring to "tie me kangaroo down sport" too (aussie isnt he).

[Controversial]

McLean was a bad mother fornicator, thats for sure. I think he would have taken Kimbo Slice and Joe Savage out on the same night. His kayo of Roy Shaw was brutal. I seen a clip of him fighting some man named Gypsy Bradshaw and kayoed him with a single blow after McLean was head butted. Of course, McLean continued his assault on the man even after he was knocked out.

You just didn't want to piss off The Guv'nor

And yet he was twice knocked out by Johnny Waldon (who lost in ten to Dennis Andries, in his last fight) a light heavy former pro. I believe once in the first round!!

I've read that McLeans claims are too be taken with a pinch of salt. Also Shaw was a lot smaller and older than Mclean. Shaw was 42 when he started bare-knuckle fighting. Plus Shaw did beat him the first time they fought.

[HomicideHenry]

McLean was a bad mother fornicator, thats for sure. I think he would have taken Kimbo Slice and Joe Savage out on the same night. His kayo of Roy Shaw was brutal. I seen a clip of him fighting some man named Gypsy Bradshaw and kayoed him with a single blow after McLean was head butted. Of course, McLean continued his assault on the man even after he was knocked out.

You just didn't want to piss off The Guv'nor

And yet he was twice knocked out by Johnny Waldon (who lost in ten to Dennis Andries, in his last fight) a light heavy former pro. I believe once in the first round!!

I've read that McLeans claims are too be taken with a pinch of salt. Also Shaw was a lot smaller and older than Mclean. Shaw was 42 when he started bare-knuckle fighting. Plus Shaw did beat him the first time they fought.

I agree that Shaw was the better fighter. McLean claims he never lost 'on the cobbles' (street fight), but he did lose to Cliff Fields, Kevin Paddock, Shaw, and Waldron in unlicensed boxing matches. Had McLean fought Shaw in his prime all three times, am sure the results would have been that Shaw would have either won all three, or two out of three. McLean had a loud mouth at times and often called out pros like Muhammad Ali---I think in ways he should have thanked his lucky stars that the Sykes/McLean fight never came off, for Sykes was a BAD, BAD, BAD, mother!

[Totybear]

I've read that McLeans claims are too be taken with a pinch of salt. Also Shaw was a lot smaller and older than Mclean. Shaw was 42 when he started bare-knuckle fighting. Plus Shaw did beat him the first time they fought.[/quote]

I agree that Shaw was the better fighter. McLean claims he never lost 'on the cobbles' (street fight), but he did lose to Cliff Fields, Kevin Paddock, Shaw, and Waldron in unlicensed boxing matches. Had McLean fought Shaw in his prime all three times, am sure the results would have been that Shaw would have either won all three, or two out of three. McLean had a loud mouth at times and often called out pros like Muhammad Ali---I think in ways he should have thanked his lucky stars that the Sykes/McLean fight never came off, for Sykes was a BAD, BAD, BAD, mother![/quote]

He never lost on "the cobbles" because he would only tackle men he knew he could beat, like most bullies.. McLean went to sort out the doorman at Browns in Hackney Rd for throwing his neice out! When he realised it was Alex Tompkins (former southern area middleweight champ, and a real banger) he suddenly changed his mind!!

Sykes (when sober) would have handled McLean handily in or out of the ring.

Incidently does anyone remember in the early eighties? Sykes was in court for beating a union rep to within an inch of his life and half way through the court proceedings it came to light that the Lawyer defending Sykes had actually paid him to do it!!! Made all the papers and of course a retrial had to be arranged. Never a quite day in the life of a phsycopath!

[HomicideHenry]

He never lost on "the cobbles" because he would only tackle men he knew he could beat, like most bullies.. McLean went to sort out the doorman at Browns in Hackney Rd for throwing his neice out! When he realised it was Alex Tompkins (former southern area middleweight champ, and a real banger) he suddenly changed his mind!!

Sykes (when sober) would have handled McLean handily in or out of the ring.

Incidently does anyone remember in the early eighties? Sykes was in court for beating a union rep to within an inch of his life and half way through the court proceedings it came to light that the Lawyer defending Sykes had actually paid him to do it!!! Made all the papers and of course a retrial had to be arranged. Never a quite day in the life of a phsycopath!

Interesting about the cobbles thing. If I remember quite correctly Charles Bronson claimed that McLean wouldnt fight him---but Lenny said that Bronson was in jail at the time. Its also ironic that McLean never met Gorman either, though Gorman claimed he called McLean out a number of times. Personally, from what I have seen, Bronson was a more capable fighter than the wild swinging McLean (at least Bronson's punches were more straight anyways).

As for Sykes, Lenny was lucky Sykes broke his hand on some drunk bastard before their fight was to take place. Else, McLean would have been blasted out inside 10 seconds, I have no doubt about it. Sykes was a powerhouse, and far meaner than McLean ever was, and he was a true championship level fighter (he did fight John L. Gardner on even terms before being kayoed for the British HW title after all).

[HomicideHenry]

Still, doesnt change the fact that Sykes was a genuine contender for the British HW title. He would have made mince meat of Lenny McLean. If Waldron, Fields, Paddock, and Shaw could do it, and they were either amateurs or pros with less than a handful of fights, then certainly Sykes would have easily beaten McLean.

[HomicideHenry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgN2H1CI1Jk


^^^This is a pretty cool video, where this old dude puts up gypsy fights all the time, and at the end a true pro boxer signs up and fights the best gypsy available and beats his ass.

[Controversial]

Still, doesnt change the fact that Sykes was a genuine contender for the British HW title. He would have made mince meat of Lenny McLean. If Waldron, Fields, Paddock, and Shaw could do it, and they were either amateurs or pros with less than a handful of fights, then certainly Sykes would have easily beaten McLean.

I agree with you. Sykes was a properly trained boxer whereas McLean was really just a brawler. As well as his professional career, Sykes had extensive amateur experience and boxed for England at every level. In a ring, with a ref, Queensbury rules, I'm sure Sykes beats McLean. On the street, who knows? And I'm not sure I even care.

I agree. Street fighting is totally different. Most street fights last seconds, maybe a few minutes, many of these big brawler types would be knackered after 3 rounds in a ring. Sykes wasn't particularly successful as a pro fighter, and Mclean was knocked out twice in the first round by Waldron, who also wasn't particularly a good pro.

A good modern example is Kimbo Slice who was a bad man on the streets, yet as soon as he entered the pro fighting scene was quickly found out.

[HomicideHenry]

Still, doesnt change the fact that Sykes was a genuine contender for the British HW title. He would have made mince meat of Lenny McLean. If Waldron, Fields, Paddock, and Shaw could do it, and they were either amateurs or pros with less than a handful of fights, then certainly Sykes would have easily beaten McLean.

I agree with you. Sykes was a properly trained boxer whereas McLean was really just a brawler. As well as his professional career, Sykes had extensive amateur experience and boxed for England at every level. In a ring, with a ref, Queensbury rules, I'm sure Sykes beats McLean. On the street, who knows? And I'm not sure I even care.

I agree. Street fighting is totally different. Most street fights last seconds, maybe a few minutes, many of these big brawler types would be knackered after 3 rounds in a ring. Sykes wasn't particularly successful as a pro fighter, and Mclean was knocked out twice in the first round by Waldron, who also wasn't particularly a good pro.

A good modern example is Kimbo Slice who was a bad man on the streets, yet as soon as he entered the pro fighting scene was quickly found out.

Sykes was considered Britain's #1 prospect for a world title shot. Sykes problem is that he stayed an amateur for far too long, his pro debut being into his 30's. Had he made the jump to professional earlier, am sure he would have faired better than he did.

[Controversial]

Sykes was considered Britain's #1 prospect for a world title shot

Really, by who?

He represented England as an amateur, and although turned pro late his pro record was quite unimpressive 6-3-1

Im sure he would have done better if he went pro younger and stayed out of trouble but not sure he was Britains number one prospect for a world title shot, maybe in his own mind was.

[Controversial]

Basically, he was a good winning fighter (aka a bully). If he couldn't intimidate his opponents he didn't want to know

In my opinion thats true for most of these bare-knuckle brawlers, basically they are bullies at heart. Many appear to have mental health issues, a dangerous mix when your 16+ stone and like hitting people.

Mike Tyson won many of his fights without throwing a punch, people were shit scared of him and fought on the defensive from the start (Bonecrusher Smith being a classic example). As soon as Tyson was knocked out he lost that air of invincibility and when things weren't going his way he broke down.

Theres a tough guy on every street, being successful in the ring is another matter though.

[HomicideHenry]

Sykes was considered Britain's #1 prospect for a world title shot

Really, by who?

He represented England as an amateur, and although turned pro late his pro record was quite unimpressive 6-3-1

Im sure he would have done better if he went pro younger and stayed out of trouble but not sure he was Britains number one prospect for a world title shot, maybe in his own mind was.

The documentary on Paul Sykes shows a poster with Sykes on it, and under his picture is the words "Britain's #1 Prospect for a world title shot", this, of course, was before his fight with John L. Gardner. I think what made Sykes a star was the unfortunate accident in the ring with an opponent he faced who ended up in the hospital on life support. The incident shook Sykes up as he said "You dont want them to get up at nine, but you definately want them to get up at ten. I'm gutted."

Alcohol, lengthy prison sentences...who knows how he would have faired had he turned pro sooner and kept his demons at bay.

[Controversial]

Sykes was considered Britain's #1 prospect for a world title shot [/quote]

Really, by who?

The documentary on Paul Sykes shows a poster with Sykes on it, and under his picture is the words "Britain's #1 Prospect for a world title shot"

Ha ha, do you think Sykes and his backers may have worded that poster? Its called advertising, he's trying to sell tickets of course his posters are going to say that, and his documentaries. I'm sure he thought he could beat anyone on the planet, the simple fact is he couldn't.

From what I have seen of him on film he had nothing exceptional about him that I could see, barely British level material in terms of quality, certainly not european and definitely not world class.

[HomicideHenry]

What were some boxing magazines being circulated in Britain at the time? I can't seem to find nothing written about Sykes in any magazine publication. I was hoping to find what the press of the time considered him as being, a prospect or just a flash in the pan.

[Controversial]

What were some boxing magazines being circulated in Britain at the time? I can't seem to find nothing written about Sykes in any magazine publication. I was hoping to find what the press of the time considered him as being, a prospect or just a flash in the pan.

Boxing Weekly was the main one. I can't find anything about him really, he was in prison for most of his adult life which probably explains why. I think he was hyped up because of his hardman reputation.

[HomicideHenry]

The only hard man I ever seen hyped up because of his reputation was Joe Savage who fought Bert Cooper. I'd like to find some videos of 'Gypsy' John Fury myself. I think a Sykes/Fury hypothetical would be interesting enough.

[JMac]

I met Gypsy John in Morrocco in '06 when Tyson was boxing at the junior world championships. He is massive in size, not as tall as Tyson but very broad shoulders. He's about 6'5". We talked everyday during the tournament since he was in the same hotel as me. When I found out from the Brit R/J that John was a bare knuckle fighter, I asked him a lot about it. He said he had over 100 fights and got paid $10,000 for his last one. His knuckles looked mashed up. He told me about a time he ended up in Kentucky in the US in the mountains with guys who ran cock fights. At the time I didn't know he was a gypsy and he told me about how he ended up in a town called Murphy town where everybody was from Ireland and I'm telling him they were probably gypsies that imigrated to the US and that there was a whole lot of them in the southern US and they go around offering to do construction jobs and get paid up front and only do half of the job. He was laughing at my discriptions, me not knowing he was a gypsy. I got pictures of me with him in a boxing pose and one with Tyson. I'm like 5' 9" and they both tower over me. At the time he said he would keep Tyson amateur and try to make the Olympic team for London 2012. What a story that would have made in the Olympics with his name and being from the host country. Obviously they chucked that idea and went pro. John was a nice guy to talk to as was Tyson.
I have the book on Gorman called King of the Gypsys. He says he is related to John Fury and they all came from Ireland. As for Tyson not being able to box in the Irish national championships to try and make their Olympic team, he was asked to produce I think a birth certificate or something that he was a resident of Ireland and he could not. I don't think gypsys are known for having good records like that.
HH asked who is the current King of the Gypsys and I heard it was Fury. I forget a lot of things I am told, (ask my wife) but I thought I heard that John went to Gormans trailer and called him out but the fight didn't happen. I haven't finished reading the book and maybe it is in there if Gorman died with the title or lost it in a fight which is supposed to be the only way it changes hands. I wish I could run into John again now that I know more about him. I would ask who is the king and if he was ever the king if he is not currently.

[Controversial]

I met Gypsy John in Morrocco in '06 when Tyson was boxing at the junior world championships. He is massive in size, not as tall as Tyson but very broad shoulders. He's about 6'5". We talked everyday during the tournament since he was in the same hotel as me. When I found out from the Brit R/J that John was a bare knuckle fighter, I asked him a lot about it. He said he had over 100 fights and got paid $10,000 for his last one. His knuckles looked mashed up. He told me about a time he ended up in Kentucky in the US in the mountains with guys who ran cock fights. At the time I didn't know he was a gypsy and he told me about how he ended up in a town called Murphy town where everybody was from Ireland and I'm telling him they were probably gypsies that imigrated to the US and that there was a whole lot of them in the southern US and they go around offering to do construction jobs and get paid up front and only do half of the job. He was laughing at my discriptions, me not knowing he was a gypsy. I got pictures of me with him in a boxing pose and one with Tyson. I'm like 5' 9" and they both tower over me. At the time he said he would keep Tyson amateur and try to make the Olympic team for London 2012. What a story that would have made in the Olympics with his name and being from the host country. Obviously they chucked that idea and went pro. John was a nice guy to talk to as was Tyson.
I have the book on Gorman called King of the Gypsys. He says he is related to John Fury and they all came from Ireland. As for Tyson not being able to box in the Irish national championships to try and make their Olympic team, he was asked to produce I think a birth certificate or something that he was a resident of Ireland and he could not. I don't think gypsys are known for having good records like that.
HH asked who is the current King of the Gypsys and I heard it was Fury. I forget a lot of things I am told, (ask my wife) but I thought I heard that John went to Gormans trailer and called him out but the fight didn't happen. I haven't finished reading the book and maybe it is in there if Gorman died with the title or lost it in a fight which is supposed to be the only way it changes hands. I wish I could run into John again now that I know more about him. I would ask who is the king and if he was ever the king if he is not currently.

Good story. Gypsy types are never ones to get on the wrong side of, they are brought up hard and most are taught to box from very young ages. They will fight anyone no matter how big you are, pretty fearless bunch. Many don't have birth certificates, or even know their date of birth, they are born on traveller sites and never get registered.

[HomicideHenry]

I met Gypsy John in Morrocco in '06 when Tyson was boxing at the junior world championships. He is massive in size, not as tall as Tyson but very broad shoulders. He's about 6'5". We talked everyday during the tournament since he was in the same hotel as me. When I found out from the Brit R/J that John was a bare knuckle fighter, I asked him a lot about it. He said he had over 100 fights and got paid $10,000 for his last one. His knuckles looked mashed up. He told me about a time he ended up in Kentucky in the US in the mountains with guys who ran cock fights. At the time I didn't know he was a gypsy and he told me about how he ended up in a town called Murphy town where everybody was from Ireland and I'm telling him they were probably gypsies that imigrated to the US and that there was a whole lot of them in the southern US and they go around offering to do construction jobs and get paid up front and only do half of the job. He was laughing at my discriptions, me not knowing he was a gypsy. I got pictures of me with him in a boxing pose and one with Tyson. I'm like 5' 9" and they both tower over me. At the time he said he would keep Tyson amateur and try to make the Olympic team for London 2012. What a story that would have made in the Olympics with his name and being from the host country. Obviously they chucked that idea and went pro. John was a nice guy to talk to as was Tyson.
I have the book on Gorman called King of the Gypsys. He says he is related to John Fury and they all came from Ireland. As for Tyson not being able to box in the Irish national championships to try and make their Olympic team, he was asked to produce I think a birth certificate or something that he was a resident of Ireland and he could not. I don't think gypsys are known for having good records like that.
HH asked who is the current King of the Gypsys and I heard it was Fury. I forget a lot of things I am told, (ask my wife) but I thought I heard that John went to Gormans trailer and called him out but the fight didn't happen. I haven't finished reading the book and maybe it is in there if Gorman died with the title or lost it in a fight which is supposed to be the only way it changes hands. I wish I could run into John again now that I know more about him. I would ask who is the king and if he was ever the king if he is not currently.

John Fury was at the wake and funeral of Bartley Gorman. From what I understand they were related. Whether that's blood relation or by marriage, I'm not sure, as Gorman claimed he had many people in his 'breed', that he fought for the Fury's, Wilson's, Gorman's, Brian's, etc. According to an article on Gorman, it was said that following the funeral, the gypsy men were going to settle the score amongst themselves and find out who was the new gypsy king. Sam Gorman and Jerry Gorman, nephews of Bartley, fight with the gloves on, Sam being a professional and Jerry I believe is just an amateur.