Artie Levine - What could have been and why retire so young?

[Controversial]

In 1949 middleweight Artie Levine retired at the grand old age of 24 after compiling a 52-15-5 record. A big puncher he stopped 36 opponents and was trained by Marciano's trainer Charley Goldman. He never fought for a title.

However his biggest achievement came on the 6th November 1946 when he fought a 72-1-1 Sugar Ray Robinson. Robinson aged 25 at the time and on a 33 fight unbeaten streak since losing to LaMotta. Levine was 21 at the time and entered the ring with a 45-9-5 record.

A tremendous battle ensued with Levine finally being stopped in the 10th round, the first stoppage defeat of his career. However he gave Robinson a real war and was thought to be unlucky not to have won due to a 'long count'.

Ring magazine later reported "Sugar ... was almost kayoed in the fourth round. A left hook, followed by a right cross, both to the chin, put (him) down and almost out... Sugar rose unsteadily and called upon all his ring skill and stamina to last out the round...Sugar had several other close calls during the course of the evening. Artie's left hooks and resounding right crosses occasionally found their marks and with telling effect. Robinson's class and body punching were taking their toll from the heavier Levine as the bout progressed. Sugar started the tenth with knockout intent. With the round about two minutes gone, Sugar paralyzed Artie with a right to the solar plexus. Then Sugar became a 'killer,' throwing punches with reckless abandon to both head and body with the result that Artie was beaten to the floor"

In fact Robinson later claimed Levine hit him the hardest than any fighter in his entire career. When Robinson was floored its claimed he was down for 21 seconds. When Robinson was decked the ref walked Levine to the neutral corner and then he walked back to Robinson and started the count at one. Robinson eventually struggled up to beat the count and went on to win the fight.

In some ways this bears some resemblance to the Clay/Cooper fight. Both Robinson and Clay were dropped in the 4th round and Robinson and Clay were both thought to have been very lucky in getting a long break that saved them. By the sounds of it Robinson was far more fortunate than Clay was.

Its funny how the Levine fight is rarely discussed yet the Cooper fight is. Does anyone know why Levine retired so young?

[Expug]

Ive read up a bit on Levine. What a banger he was.
After he stopped Jimmy Doye in 46, Doyle had to be put on a respirator to save his life.
He was hurt bad and of course a year later after fighting Ray Robinson and being kod, Doyle died.
Levine said he lost his "killer instinct" after that.He said it destroyed him in boxing.
He fought quite a few fights after that and scored a good number of kayoes. But, who knows what was going through his mind. Maybe he could have done better if not for the Doyle fight.
When he retired, he did well owning a meat buisness and later selling Volkswagons.

[Controversial]

Ive read up a bit on Levine. What a banger he was.
After he stopped Jimmy Doye in 46, Doyle had to be put on a respirator to save his life.
He was hurt bad and of course a year later after fighting Ray Robinson and being kod, Doyle died.
Levine said he lost his "killer instinct" after that.He said it destroyed him in boxing.
He fought quite a few fights after that and scored a good number of kayoes. But, who knows what was going through his mind. Maybe he could have done better if not for the Doyle fight.
When he retired, he did well owning a meat buisness and later selling Volkswagons.

The Doyle fight was before he fought Robinson though. I wonder if the Robinson fight took a lot out of Levine because he went 7-5 after that fight and 3 of those losses were by stoppage. Considering he had never been stopped his 59 previous fights before fighting Robinson it might explain why he went on a downward spiral. In fact in Levine's last fight he was knocked unconscious for three minutes, maybe he just burned out at a young age.

Good info about the jobs after retiring.

[granberry]

ARTIE LEVINE vs. SUGAR RAY ROBINSON

November 6, 1940

[Controversial]

ARTIE LEVINE vs. SUGAR RAY ROBINSON

November 6, 1940

Granberry whats your take on the Levine/Robinson fight and the long count?

PS. It was in 1946, not 1940

[granberry]

I got that photo from the AntiqueBoxing site. The date was my mistake in copying, not theirs.

I know that Artie Levine was fairly tall, very strongly built and that he came VERY close to beating Robinson.

Other than that I know nothing since I didn't see the fight.

Robinson had a rough time in a number of fights.

Both of Robinson's fights with Marty Servo could have gone to Servo, according to some who saw them.

When Robinson finally got his chance at the welterweight title (elimination after Servo retired) Tommy Bell knocked Robinson down and beat him thoroughly for the first half of the fight. Robinson had to fight like hell to get back in the fight and win a decision.

Robinson had troubler with 2 types of fighters:

Fighters as tall or taller than he was, which took away his height advantage--

Tommy Bell
Randy Turpin
Joey Maxim
Paul Pender

Fighters who could make weight at 147 or 160 but were somehow as strong as a much heavier fighter---

Jake LaMotta
Gene Fullmer
Artie Levine
Tiger Jones
Randy Turpin

[Controversial]

I know that Artie Levine was fairly tall, very strongly built and that he came VERY close to beating Robinson. Other than that I know nothing since I didn't see the fight.

From what I have read Robinson was down for 21 seconds, and even then struggled to beat the count when the ref finally started counting. I know you have your issues with the Clay and Cooper fight and are quite outspoken in your opinion of Clay being dropped by Cooper. I don't believe there was any 2 minute break, like Cooper claims, it has been timed by the BBC as being 5 seconds longer than it should have been. I do believe however that if Cooper landed a minute or so earlier he would have stopped Clay.

However what I am getting at is Robinson is rated by many as being the greatest fighter ever. Even people that don't have him number one have him in their top 3 or top 5. That being the case why does Robinson not get the stick that Clay gets for a similar incident? By the sounds of it Robinson was far luckier than Clay was, and Robinson was far more experienced that Clay was.

Is it just because there is video of Clay/Cooper and none (that I know of) of the Robinson/Levine fight?

[ThatOne]

No, it's because people have an irrational hatred of Clay/Ali.

He was knocked down four flipping times. Joe Louis was knocked down twelve times. Watch the Shavers-Ali fight. Ali was 35 and all but done at the time. Shavers hits him flush on the chin with massive rights and Ali doesn't go down.

The Banks knockown was a flash knockdown. Ali was playing with Cooper and nearly paid the price. The left hook Frazier hit him with would have dropped a horse ;permanently. Wepner hit Ali with a heart punch wile he was stepping on his toes.

Ali had the best beard in modern heavyweight history. If he didn't he might not be the way he is now.

[slakka]

Levine had a film of his SRR fight. Came upon it one day and alas, it had turned to dust!

[Controversial]

No, it's because people have an irrational hatred of Clay/Ali.

He was knocked down four flipping times. Joe Louis was knocked down twelve times. Watch the Shavers-Ali fight. Ali was 35 and all but done at the time. Shavers hits him flush on the chin with massive rights and Ali doesn't go down.

The Banks knockown was a flash knockdown. Ali was playing with Cooper and nearly paid the price. The left hook Frazier hit him with would have dropped a horse ;permanently. Wepner hit Ali with a heart punch wile he was stepping on his toes.

Ali had the best beard in modern heavyweight history. If he didn't he might not be the way he is now.

I agree Ali/Clay did have one of the best chins in heavyweight history. He was fortunate against Cooper that the knockdown happened at the end of the round but boxing is full of ifs and buts. If Cooper landed earlier he may have stopped Clay, we will never know. I'm not one of Ali's greatest admirers but I recognise that he fought in the toughest heavyweight era and fought every top fighter there was. One his day he would be a handful against any fighter thats ever lived. He stopped Frazier, Foreman, Patterson, Lyle, Bonavena, Liston, Williams, Folley, Quarry, Patterson, Ellis and Foster, for a fighter not known for a big punch that isn't too bad an achievement. Yes he was very lucky to get the nod in some fights and not always exciting to watch but that argument can be made for pretty much any ATG.

I do find it strange that Robinson doesn't get the same criticism as Clay did for being decked. Considering Robinson was older, more experienced and generally regarded as the best P4P fighter ever. To be on the floor for 21 seconds shows he was far more hurt than Clay was, Clay was only down for a few seconds and Cooper could really bang with his hook.

Any fighter can be knocked out, its actually not that difficult to ko someone if you hit them right. To single out one punch to discredit an entire career is wrong.

[slakka]

Ive never read to my satisfaction about little welter sugar fighting all these bigger monsters and the toll it would take on a welter.

[Controversial]

Ive never read to my satisfaction about little welter sugar fighting all these bigger monsters and the toll it would take on a welter.

Sorry what does this mean, I can't understand what you are trying to say?

[slakka]

Ive never read to my satisfaction about little welter sugar fighting all these bigger monsters and the toll it took on him.


Sorry what does this mean, I can't understand what you are trying to say?
Robinson properly managed would have had an even greater prime than the already spectacular one he had.

capishe?

[Goodnight, Irene]

No, it's because people have an irrational hatred of Clay/Ali.

He was knocked down four flipping times. Joe Louis was knocked down twelve times. Watch the Shavers-Ali fight. Ali was 35 and all but done at the time. Shavers hits him flush on the chin with massive rights and Ali doesn't go down.

The Banks knockown was a flash knockdown. Ali was playing with Cooper and nearly paid the price. The left hook Frazier hit him with would have dropped a horse ;permanently. Wepner hit Ali with a heart punch wile he was stepping on his toes.

Ali had the best beard in modern heavyweight history. If he didn't he might not be the way he is now.

It is not because people have an irrational hatred of Ali (freaks like Granberry are just that, freaks, removed from the norm). Don't take the opportunity to paint him as a victim --- it's already a too-common theme on this board. It is, simply, because of the level of exposure. Clay-Cooper has been replayed & subsequently discussed ad infinitum, ad nausaem, but not so of Robinson-Levine.

It's a case of simple common sense. One is shown & discussed all the time, the other is rarely, if in fact ever.

[slakka]

Robinson Given Stiff Test By Levine


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Mj ... vine&hl=en


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Y4 ... vine&hl=en

[Controversial]

Robinson Given Stiff Test By Levine


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Mj ... vine&hl=en


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Y4 ... vine&hl=en

Good find. Sounds like Levine gave Robinson hell, Sugar Ray turned his back on Levine at one point because he couldn't handle the pressure. One fight I'd like to see.

It goes to show how even old newspaper reports differ as the NY Times said Robinson was floored for a 9 count in the 5th round, the article you found says it was an 8 count in the 4th round. However neither mention of the 21 second long count that many other reports claim happened.

[slakka]

Well my posting above is U.P., the New York Times is A.P., I just read an I.N.S. account at my local library, thats 3, and zippo about a long count. I'm smellin urban legend here!

[Controversial]

Well my posting above is U.P., the New York Times is A.P., I just read an I.N.S. account at my local library, thats 3, and zippo about a long count. I'm smellin urban legend here!

What does U.P, A.P and I.N.S mean?

I just read another paper article that didn't even mention that Robinson was floored, just that he knocked Levine out in the 10th !!

Maybe there was some confusion when the count started and the story has grown into a long count....a bit like the 5 minute break some 'sources' claim that Clay had against Cooper.

Even so it does sound like Robinson was in all sorts of trouble, he done well to come back and be the first fighter to stop Levine.

[slakka]

Contro, were you in special ed?
Associated Press, United Press, International News Service.

(The Ring, January 1947, page 34)
~ time: 2:41 | referee: Jackie Davis ~
Attendance: 12,102. Robinson received a purse of $12,500. "Sugar..was almost kayoed in the fourth round. A left hook, followed by a right cross, both to the chin, put (him) down and almost out...Sugar rose unsteadily and called upon all his ring skill and stamina to last out the round...Sugar had several other close calls during the course of the evening. Artie's left hooks and resounding right crosses occasionally found their marks and with telling effect. Robinson's class and body punching were taking their toll from the heavier Levine as the bout progressed. Sugar started the tenth with knockout intent. With the round about two minutes gone, Sugar paralyzed Artie with a right to the solar plexus. Then Sugar became a 'killer,' throwing punches with reckless abandon to both head and body with the result that Artie was beaten to the floor."

[Controversial]

Contro, were you in special ed?
Associated Press, United Press, International News Service.

(The Ring, January 1947, page 34)
~ time: 2:41 | referee: Jackie Davis ~
Attendance: 12,102. Robinson received a purse of $12,500. "Sugar..was almost kayoed in the fourth round. A left hook, followed by a right cross, both to the chin, put (him) down and almost out...Sugar rose unsteadily and called upon all his ring skill and stamina to last out the round...Sugar had several other close calls during the course of the evening. Artie's left hooks and resounding right crosses occasionally found their marks and with telling effect. Robinson's class and body punching were taking their toll from the heavier Levine as the bout progressed. Sugar started the tenth with knockout intent. With the round about two minutes gone, Sugar paralyzed Artie with a right to the solar plexus. Then Sugar became a 'killer,' throwing punches with reckless abandon to both head and body with the result that Artie was beaten to the floor."

Nah mate, whats special ed? Im in the UK not America, that probably explains why I haven't got a clue what your talking about :-)

Your article from The Ring is what I copied and pasted into my first post, that too doesn't mention a long count either? Even though Robinson was having a war he was ahead on all scorecards, must have been a cracking fight !!

[granberry]

Robinson Given Stiff Test By Levine


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Mj ... vine&hl=en


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Y4 ... vine&hl=en

Thanks for that, slakka.

[jaclem2]

it was either a quote in a bio about robinson or in an auto-bio that robinson said (paraphrased) "I reached up to block a left hook and the next thing i knew i was hearing the referee counting. I just made it up. They say it was a long count and maybe it was. My mind wasn't clear at that point."

artie levine was a strong guy and a very good puncher. he was also one of the guys to become a "Victim" of the billy fox fiasco. he sasid he had a hard time dumping that one because he had to be careful not to hit fox hard, i think he was "kayoed" himself but i'll have to check out boxrec to refresh my memory, as i'm only 80% sure that i'm writing about the right guy.