pat sheehan..... you are a complete tool !!

[gobbles]

im pretty sure wazza pays pat sheehan and colin hart to slate haye every chance they get wazza's last article he brought up valuev being the worst champ in history and ruiz the 2nd.which is bs. he has said that about 10 times now and it's getting boring. utter disgrace

No way was Valuev the worst heavyweight champion in history. Slow and one dimensional, yes, but there have been plenty worse - most obviously Ruiz, who he beat twice.

[Poncey]

Pat Sheehan is a football writer.

He only covers boxing because the Sun don't give the sport enough courage to warrent employing someone full time for it. His lack of knowledge is shines through in almost all his articles. This isn't a knock by the way.

C'mon Andy. The news group have a writer with boxing knowledge at their disposal.

They clearly can't be arsed to use him.

As far as I'm aware Colin Hart isn't employed by the sun on an actual contract. He's freelance with the agreement to do one article per week. This keeps their costs down as they can get the in house guy (Sheehan) to do the rest of the work.

Wasn't referring to Hart mate.

[big lennox]

Colin Hart is terrible as well.He never delivers considered reports. I remember on the saturday when naz boxed barrera, he said if he wins, he would join the pantheon of greats.On the monday, I always said he was never any good anyway, and would always be exposed etc etc. His in the studio commentory is no better either.

[NazNaci1]

Colin Hart is terrible as well.He never delivers considered reports. I remember on the saturday when naz boxed barrera, he said if he wins, he would join the pantheon of greats.On the monday, I always said he was never any good anyway, and would always be exposed etc etc. His in the studio commentory is no better either.

Oh yeah, I remember that.

Atleast he knows about boxing, and can actually get fighters names correct and distinguissh between world class and 'journeymen'.

Warren, is probably worse out of the lot of them. If its not his fighter, he puts them down at every turn and if it is his fighter, he cant do know worng.

PS The way he was talking after Haye beat Valuev, was actually funny.....'Please, please, please people need to put it into perspective. Valuev was probably the worst heavyweight champion ever...blah blah...', 'Lets not get over-excited, Haye beat someone who wasnt that good, anyway...blah blah..'

You can bet it if Haye was aligned wih him, he wouldn't be saying that. A British heavyweight wins a belt and this guy only thinks about bringing him down and sticking in the boot. A complete toss pot. He did the same to Audley and does it to Froch, too.

Funny how he tried to sign all 3 of them and they all said no...In spite of that, he aint bitter :) And his boxing column is so bad I used to read it just to laugh, genuinely.

Its full of so much biased and rubbish, I used to actually chuckle to myself, how bitter this guy could be. Dont read it anymore, only so many times can read the same trash.

[Nightmare Roy]

It's kind of sad really, as it just shows the news paper's don't give a hoot about the sport, remember that stupid piece about Peter Buckly, the worst boxer ever etc, obviously written by someone who has no concept of what boxing is all about.

[Captain Hook]

In other words, describing Carl Thompson as a journeyman is not only inaccurate and lazy, it's insulting. Just as it was when journalists scrabbling to ramp up the sensationalism described Hasim Rahman and Danny Williams as "journeymen" when they beat Lewis and Tyson, respectively.

Underdogs, yes, but journeymen? Ridiculous.

Spot on.

x2

[Spud]

Get back to Sheehan - just for a minute folks - whilst the criticisms are there to be seen and its p*ss poor editing and knowledge not to have got the articles correct - the likes of myself have long slagged journo's for not writing about boxing in the newspapers - at least Sheehan does - shouldn't we as boxing fans be grateful for something.

I will stress some of the criticisms may well be justified - but sheehan does get told about this forum - thats a FACT - if we slag him - he may very well say "f*ck boxing" and then we will get next to nothing in the papers!!!

I am not saying do not criticise Sheehan - I think its amusing seeing journo's take some flack - but where is the line going to be drawn!!!

[stujones]

Get back to Sheehan - just for a minute folks - whilst the criticisms are there to be seen and its p*ss poor editing and knowledge not to have got the articles correct - the likes of myself have long slagged journo's for not writing about boxing in the newspapers - at least Sheehan does - shouldn't we as boxing fans be grateful for something.

I will stress some of the criticisms may well be justified - but sheehan does get told about this forum - thats a FACT - if we slag him - he may very well say "f*ck boxing" and then we will get next to nothing in the papers!!!

I am not saying do not criticise Sheehan - I think its amusing seeing journo's take some flack - but where is the line going to be drawn!!!

I agree with your first paragraph, completely - especially if the article was hyping other boxers and not hailing Haye as the only decent heavyweight out there... which I think has been some of the problems concerning the "general" media since his win.... Klitchsko's need to be hyped as much as Haye.

not sure the 2nd is entirely accurate - that would surely be down to his pay masters. 1) Surely if his pay master likes/respects his words that will be more important to him than what we say and 2) I don't think (especially in this climate) he will say f boxing if the pay master wants him to cover a fight - cause thats his job. I don't know if it is a labour of love, like it is for the unpaid internet scribes - its his job. If his pay masters say "cover Haye's next fight" and he says "no, f boxing" - then he won't be long in his job and someone else will cover it.

[Wake up call]

C'mon Andy. The news group have a writer with boxing knowledge at their disposal.

They clearly can't be arsed to use him.

As far as I'm aware Colin Hart isn't employed by the sun on an actual contract. He's freelance with the agreement to do one article per week. This keeps their costs down as they can get the in house guy (Sheehan) to do the rest of the work.

Wasn't referring to Hart mate.

If you are referring to News International (who own The Sun, Sky, The Times and The News of The World) as a whole then I'm assuming you are talking about Ron Lewis. Again I am only going off what I'm told but Ron isn't a full time boxing writer. His normal job is as a sub editor. He's a good writer and knows his stuff but not sure if he can "dumb down" enough to write for a tabloid like the Sun.

[rhino222]

Get back to Sheehan - just for a minute folks - whilst the criticisms are there to be seen and its p*ss poor editing and knowledge not to have got the articles correct - the likes of myself have long slagged journo's for not writing about boxing in the newspapers - at least Sheehan does - shouldn't we as boxing fans be grateful for something.

I will stress some of the criticisms may well be justified - but sheehan does get told about this forum - thats a FACT - if we slag him - he may very well say "f*ck boxing" and then we will get next to nothing in the papers!!!

I am not saying do not criticise Sheehan - I think its amusing seeing journo's take some flack - but where is the line going to be drawn!!!

ha ha... those words have not been edited spud, its obviously what sheehan wrote when asked to fill in 6 lines. personally, if the content is not accurate, then dont put it to print, simple as.

[dondada]

If you are referring to News International (who own The Sun, Sky, The Times and The News of The World) as a whole then I'm assuming you are talking about Ron Lewis. Again I am only going off what I'm told but Ron isn't a full time boxing writer. His normal job is as a sub editor. He's a good writer and knows his stuff but not sure if he can "dumb down" enough to write for a tabloid like the Sun.

If I can dumb down enough to write for The Sun, I'm sure Ron can. DD

Didn't realise he was a sub.

[tonyevs]

Colin Hart was/is a bad boxing journo ... Pat Sheehan is prob even worse

[whiskey]

Cant say i give a hoot whether Sheehan packs in covering boxing or not, simply because he took a few knocks on a forum.

He only ever cuts & pastes everything we all do anyway, it's not like he goes to any effort whatsoever.

He copied my entire Froch interview and printed it as his f****** own, then despite my polite email asking for a link or a nod on their Sun website, they gave me sweet FA.

I wouldn't have cared so much, but Murdoch and the other newspaper owners are now saying that news sites like newsnow.co.uk should be shut down because its not their own content. Likewise anyone who cribs their news will also be in trouble - but they are the worst !

[dondada]

Cant say i give a hoot whether Sheehan packs in covering boxing or not, simply because he took a few knocks on a forum.

He only ever cuts & pastes everything we all do anyway, it's not like he goes to any effort whatsoever.

He copied my entire Froch interview and printed it as his f****** own, then despite my polite email asking for a link or a nod on their Sun website, they gave me sweet FA.

I wouldn't have cared so much, but Murdoch and the other newspaper owners are now saying that news sites like newsnow.co.uk should be shut down because its not their own content. Likewise anyone who cribs their news will also be in trouble - but they are the worst !

F**king disgraceful that, Gomez.

[alexpaterson]

Cant say i give a hoot whether Sheehan packs in covering boxing or not, simply because he took a few knocks on a forum.

He only ever cuts & pastes everything we all do anyway, it's not like he goes to any effort whatsoever.

He copied my entire Froch interview and printed it as his f****** own, then despite my polite email asking for a link or a nod on their Sun website, they gave me sweet FA.

I wouldn't have cared so much, but Murdoch and the other newspaper owners are now saying that news sites like newsnow.co.uk should be shut down because its not their own content. Likewise anyone who cribs their news will also be in trouble - but they are the worst !

That is shocking

[jimglen]

No it's not IT's the British way - why because unlike in other countries they get away with it! Generally Speaking.

[whicker]

I think the term journeyman has changed over the years..... I remember it being described for the "have gloves will travel" type of fighter.... but people with this attidude would still be classed as a journeyman - even if they went to win.

Here is a bit of history for you all!!

"Journeyman" is a word with two meanings, both of which suit each other.

"Jour" is French for day- so it means a person on a day rate- typically someone skilled who has learned their craft, and is looking to raise fnds and improve, rather than a "master", someone who hadn't set up their own business yet.

A blacksmith might have an apprentice and a journeyman, for example, and take on extra journeyman as required.

Essentially- a short term worker with ability and training who was competent, but not their own enterprise.


It also means "a worker who travels"- journeymen, not having businesses of their own, would travel to find work and move around as work dictated.


Sooooo

For a boxer, it could mean, at it's most complimentary, a non-contracted boxer who travels to fight as the "away" fighter on another promotors bill. (I'm not saying Thompson WAS a journeyman, even by this definition.)

The concept of them as "Tomato Cans" isn't necessaily correct.

[Wake up call]

Sadly the days of proper journalism are dead where the mainstream media is concerned.

Cutbacks, lower staffing numbers and tighter deadlines mean that journalists spend more time desk bound churning out any old story rather going out and getting their own stuff. This mean re-writing press releases and copying stories off the internet.

All newspapers do this and there's a term for it "Churnalism". Also the majority of stories found in the news pages of a newspaper don't actually orginate from that paper. They come from wire agencies such as PA and Adfero. The thing is PA and Adfero are churnalisers as they steal quotes etc from websites and the like and send the exact same copy to all the newspapers. This is the reason why nearly all the main news sources report the same stories.

Skysports.com for example get around 90% of their content from other sources. It's almost all PA re-writes and things nicked off sports websites but credit is never given to the actual site that put the work in so the general public believe they are getting first hand information.

So if Murdoch wants to do people who use other sources contents, then he is going to have to do himself as well as bite the hand that feeds as his organisations very existance is based on what he claims to want to get rid off.

It's a shame that quotes aren't copy righted as this would stop the process, but at the same time it would put nearly all the nationals out of business.

Read Nick Davies' book 'Flat Earth News'. It's a very good read, written by a veteran journalist who is disgusted at what modern reporting has become.

Sorry, when subjects like this come up the journalism studies student in me comes out.

[whicker]

disgusted at what modern reporting has become.

Yeah - a lot of the "newspapers" are no more than coffee table entertainment (do we need endless stories about the snow?)

Also, the "broadsheets" are often no better- endless articles of personal, unsourced and unreferened/research opinion.

[oliverfennell]

I think the term journeyman has changed over the years..... I remember it being described for the "have gloves will travel" type of fighter.... but people with this attidude would still be classed as a journeyman - even if they went to win.

Here is a bit of history for you all!!

"Journeyman" is a word with two meanings, both of which suit each other.

"Jour" is French for day- so it means a person on a day rate- typically someone skilled who has learned their craft, and is looking to raise fnds and improve, rather than a "master", someone who hadn't set up their own business yet.

A blacksmith might have an apprentice and a journeyman, for example, and take on extra journeyman as required.

Essentially- a short term worker with ability and training who was competent, but not their own enterprise.


It also means "a worker who travels"- journeymen, not having businesses of their own, would travel to find work and move around as work dictated.


Sooooo

For a boxer, it could mean, at it's most complimentary, a non-contracted boxer who travels to fight as the "away" fighter on another promotors bill. (I'm not saying Thompson WAS a journeyman, even by this definition.)

The concept of them as "Tomato Cans" isn't necessaily correct.

As I said earlier (in simpler terms), what you described is indeed correct in a literal sense, but the meanings of words can evolve through their usage. And essentially, while the term does have some grey area, we all know the basic crux of what a journeyman is.

[chinny]

Read Nick Davies' book 'Flat Earth News'. It's a very good read, written by a veteran journalist who is disgusted at what modern reporting has become.

Yes, that is an eye opener and a cracking read. Very sad really.

[Asterix]

Cant say i give a hoot whether Sheehan packs in covering boxing or not, simply because he took a few knocks on a forum.

He only ever cuts & pastes everything we all do anyway, it's not like he goes to any effort whatsoever.

He copied my entire Froch interview and printed it as his f****** own, then despite my polite email asking for a link or a nod on their Sun website, they gave me sweet FA.

I wouldn't have cared so much, but Murdoch and the other newspaper owners are now saying that news sites like newsnow.co.uk should be shut down because its not their own content. Likewise anyone who cribs their news will also be in trouble - but they are the worst !

What they're doing to NewsNow.co.uk is beyond idiotic. They're removing their stuff from the site which in turn lowers their online readership. My mind boggles why they want to do that.

[DavidPayne]

k.....longer than your arm.

[Jab and Move]

Why do they have novices writing for the biggest paper in the world?

[rhino222]

Why do they have novices writing for the biggest paper in the world?

pay peanuts get monkeys !!!!