Racism in British Boxing.

mickeybeard · Post by **mickeybeard** » 29 Jan 2005, 08:36

I often have a bit of a grump about this to the missus. To me it's just basic poilteness (perhaps that makes me seem hopelessly outdated at the age of 27, but I learned the basic rules of politeness through a lot of shouting and the occasional clip 'round the back of the head from me mum

). Perhaps they don't play it because they know the numpties would boo it out of the arena?

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 29 Jan 2005, 08:38

I'd rather not hear the anthems, it just adds to an already incredibly long wait.

maverick · Post by **maverick** » 29 Jan 2005, 08:44

Play one you ought to play the other defo. Ain't racism tho it's Nationalism.

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 29 Jan 2005, 09:08

The Columbian National anthem wouldn't be heard because of the boo's, probably better they didn't play it.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 29 Jan 2005, 09:46

Lefthookhappy19 wrote:The Columbian National anthem wouldn't be heard because of the boo's, probably better they didn't play it.

This is what pisses me off, the booing of the opponent,
The crowd even showed their total ignorance and booed the ref also.

Now there is real pig headed ignorance to the extreme

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 29 Jan 2005, 10:15

The majority of the fans at Braehead these days are casuals treating it as a night out: dressing up in a suit, or shirt and trousers, having a pissup before getting their coach to the fight, murdering the Flower of Scotland, booing and jeering the away fighters during the intros, shouting and swearing during the fights as if they're hard, frequently going to the toilets for a piss during rounds, etc.

They don't really know anything about the fighters, but hey, they've seen Harrison for 20 seconds on Scotland Today and it says 'Frank Warrren presents World Championship Boxing' on the ticket so it must be true.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 29 Jan 2005, 11:42

Manos de Oro wrote:The majority of the fans at Braehead these days are casuals treating it as a night out: dressing up in a suit, or shirt and trousers, having a pissup before getting their coach to the fight, murdering the Flower of Scotland, booing and jeering the away fighters during the intros, shouting and swearing during the fights as if they're hard, frequently going to the toilets for a piss during rounds, etc.

They don't really know anything about the fighters, but hey, they've seen Harrison for 20 seconds on Scotland Today and it says 'Frank Warrren presents World Championship Boxing' on the ticket so it must be true.

Ricky Hatton fans in other words?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 29 Jan 2005, 11:55

In my opinion play both anthems or neither of them.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 29 Jan 2005, 12:07

neil r wrote:Ricky Hatton fans in other words?

Yep.

KOJOE90 wrote:In my opinion play both anthems or neither of them.

Yep.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 29 Jan 2005, 17:47

Yeah he was loving it at the end as well before the decision was announced, beating his chest and all sorts.

ILikeBeer · Post by **ILikeBeer** » 30 Jan 2005, 16:01

I have no strong opinion of whether the national anthems are played or not, but if the combatants are from two different countries and they play one, they should play the other. They do in international football and rugby matches, whoever the home team is.

Obviously if they are both from the same country, it could only be played once. If they were both from Britain (one from England/Scotland) I would have no problem with God Save the Queen being played once to incorporate both. Dunno how non English members of Great Britain feel about that?

Neri · Post by **Neri** » 30 Jan 2005, 20:23

I cant stand the national anthem, god save the queen needs to be changed. Its unfair on the boxers sometimes when they have to warm up through 3 national anthems.

I also hate the casual, drunk, loud mouthed fans. One such fellow sat behind me and my friends at an M.E.N. bill. A boxer was making his ring entrance for a fight on the undercard and this man started shouting 'scouse fornicating bastard'. The boxer was Wayne Elcock

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 31 Jan 2005, 03:12

Celtic nations are often highly partizan and nationalistic. Happens with the Welsh rugby team every six nations...

It's a bit sad, but just born from insecurity and an inferiority complex. Remember the reception Gomez got in the Arthur fight?

I doubt the Colombian cared, just thought "let them get on with it"...

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 31 Jan 2005, 04:02

Loftgroov wrote:Celtic nations are often highly partizan and nationalistic....It's a bit sad, but just born from insecurity and an inferiority complex.

Your take on nationalism --"insecurity....inferiority complex"-- comes straight from the pages of Left-Wing Propaganda For Dummies.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 31 Jan 2005, 05:02

[quote="Loftgroov"]Celtic nations are often highly partizan and nationalistic. Happens with the Welsh rugby team every six nations...
[quote]

English fans are just as bad if not worse!

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 31 Jan 2005, 05:51

Loftgroov wrote:Celtic nations are often highly partizan and nationalistic. Happens with the Welsh rugby team every six nations...

It's a bit sad, but just born from insecurity and an inferiority complex. Remember the reception Gomez got in the Arthur fight?

I doubt the Colombian cared, just thought "let them get on with it"...

Lol - so you want to offend the Welsh, the Scots and the Irish in one fell swoop. Well done, mission achieved.

The only supporters from these islands, across all sports, that truly fill me with shame at their aggressive and insecure nationalistic behaviour are English football fans. And even then I'm fully aware that its just a hard core not the majority.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 31 Jan 2005, 06:27

ILikeBeer wrote:Obviously if they are both from the same country, it could only be played once. If they were both from Britain (one from England/Scotland) I would have no problem with God Save the Queen being played once to incorporate both. Dunno how non English members of Great Britain feel about that?

I'm English but one of my closest friends is Scottish and we have in the past been to Boxing matches together.

She is in no way anti-English but she is not a fan of God Save The Queen as there is a verse in it that refers to us English going up north and giving the Scottish a 'bit of a slap', apparently.

On this note I don't like it when 'UK' fans boo and throw abuse at an overseas fighter on the way to the ring. There is no need for it in my opinion.

I can understand it if the visiting fighter has been making anti-UK comments in the press etc but this almost never happens.

J · Post by J » 31 Jan 2005, 07:12

KOJOE90 wrote:
ILikeBeer wrote:Obviously if they are both from the same country, it could only be played once. If they were both from Britain (one from England/Scotland) I would have no problem with God Save the Queen being played once to incorporate both. Dunno how non English members of Great Britain feel about that?
I'm English but one of my closest friends is Scottish and we have in the past been to Boxing matches together.

She is in no way anti-English but she is not a fan of God Save The Queen as there is a verse in it that refers to us English going up north and giving the Scottish a 'bit of a slap', apparently.

On this note I don't like it when 'UK' fans boo and throw abuse at an overseas fighter on the way to the ring. There is no need for it in my opinion.

I can understand it if the visiting fighter has been making anti-UK comments in the press etc but this almost never happens.

and the flower of scotland is about what exactly? The Scots giving the english a slap, and so what it was hundreds of years ago and I had nothign to do with it nor the reaosns why it happened. Though it smacks of hypocrisy ythat she should take offence to a never sung verse of God save the queen whenb the whole of the Flower of Scotland is about "sending the english home to think again", I like the Flower of Scotland for the record think its a great anthem.

Secondly I resent the general opinion that if you happen to follow hattons career then you arte a loud mouthed Soccer hooligan with no ettiquette.

wanna talk about sterotyping and pigeon holing people well there you go.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 31 Jan 2005, 07:29

J wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:
ILikeBeer wrote:Obviously if they are both from the same country, it could only be played once. If they were both from Britain (one from England/Scotland) I would have no problem with God Save the Queen being played once to incorporate both. Dunno how non English members of Great Britain feel about that?
I'm English but one of my closest friends is Scottish and we have in the past been to Boxing matches together.

She is in no way anti-English but she is not a fan of God Save The Queen as there is a verse in it that refers to us English going up north and giving the Scottish a 'bit of a slap', apparently.

On this note I don't like it when 'UK' fans boo and throw abuse at an overseas fighter on the way to the ring. There is no need for it in my opinion.

I can understand it if the visiting fighter has been making anti-UK comments in the press etc but this almost never happens.

and the flower of scotland is about what exactly? The Scots giving the english a slap, and so what it was hundreds of years ago and I had nothign to do with it nor the reaosns why it happened. Though it smacks of hypocrisy ythat she should take offence to a never sung verse of God save the queen whenb the whole of the Flower of Scotland is about "sending the english home to think again", I like the Flower of Scotland for the record think its a great anthem.

To be honest I have no idea what The Flower Of Scottland is about, I shall challange my friend about it next time we speak.

J · Post by J » 31 Jan 2005, 08:27

its about the scots giving us a slap, round the time of braveheart and all that mate (perhaps one of our sctos posters would like to elborate) !!! I think its a fantastci anthem real soul stirring stuff even if Im not scots, no offence meant or taken tho, just thought it was a bit ironic!!!

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 31 Jan 2005, 12:47

Isn't the Scots national anthem 'God Save the Queen'? I'm not trying to be a cheeky pudendum...I just thought 'Flower of Scotland' was more a traditional song like 'Land of Hope and Glory' for the English and tthe 'Bread of Heaven' one - sorry, don't know it's proper name - for our Welsh friends.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 31 Jan 2005, 13:27

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Isn't the Scots national anthem 'God Save the Queen'? I'm not trying to be a cheeky pudendum...I just thought 'Flower of Scotland' was more a traditional song like 'Land of Hope and Glory' for the English and tthe 'Bread of Heaven' one - sorry, don't know it's proper name - for our Welsh friends.

Technically correct with regard to Scotland, although I believe My Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau is the official Welsh national anthem. I dont know any scots or welsh friends who ever sing god save the queen - and quite right too, its a bloody awful tune.

J · Post by J » 01 Feb 2005, 04:38

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Isn't the Scots national anthem 'God Save the Queen'? I'm not trying to be a cheeky pudendum...I just thought 'Flower of Scotland' was more a traditional song like 'Land of Hope and Glory' for the English and tthe 'Bread of Heaven' one - sorry, don't know it's proper name - for our Welsh friends.

Thats not what i was taught at school, i was under the impression that God save the queen was the British National anthem, Land of hope and Glory the English; flower of scotland Scotland's , land of my fathers wales etc etc, which always posed the question why we use god save the queen I guess.

could be wrong of course but that was certainly what was taught to me, cant trust them teachers hey Ian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_anthems

http://www.petitiononline.com/19662004/petition.html

edit did a few look ups and seems the teachers were right in this case, though bit of a shocker that you didnt know the (unnoficial) english national anthem gents, (all this comes form rugby chaps so unless you played you may not have known this).

Ally · Post by **Ally** » 01 Feb 2005, 08:03

I do not approve of anthems for boxing, believing them more appropriate for team games. If they have to be played then it should be both not one.

The two (Scots/English-UK) anthems are in many ways similar as both talk of beating each other off whenever one of us got too excited. I think the difference between God save the King/Queen and Flower of Scotland no one expects the English to sing Flower of Scotland.

For the record here is the dropped verse.

Lord grant that martial Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring
May he sedition hush
And like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to Crush
God save the King

I think there is a much bigger racial issue in boxing today and it surrounds the concept of the "Great White Hope". Whereas most racist writings (songs/stories/sayings) tell us much about past attitudes, this has implications for the future. I have never liked the concept for several reasons. I was therefore assuming that the fact that Klitchko has become the WBC heavyweight champion would put this to bed. Not so, I visited the USA recently and this is still current and indeed it is regularly mentioned on forums. The reason is I think this. Under Apartheid in South Africa Chinese people were classified as 'coloured' and Japanese as 'white' exposing their racism as being more to do with economics and social status than biology. It seems as far as America is concerned, the most important criterion to be classified as 'white' is to be American.