Howcome Naz didn't have the Wbc Featherweight belt for long?

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 04 Feb 2005, 06:17

jamesmcdonnell wrote: I always thought the reason that he didn't flip into the ring was that Barrera insisted on Reyes gloves which have the thumb attached to the body of the glove...

I think it was defintely the beer on his gloves that changed his mind about the flip. He lines up for it, but wisely changes his mind ( surprising, as I think he was half out of his mind that night ).

Being a Muslim, the beer all over him must have freaked him out a little too.

Yes he was beaten out of sight, but I've always thought he'd have done Barrera if they'd met a few years before ( around the Robinson fight, maybe just before ).

When Naz was relatively unknown, do you really think Barrera would have boxed such a controlled fight, staying away even when he had Hamed hurt?

No way, he'd have gone in for the kill, and probably have walked onto a Hamed bomb, and woken up a few minutes later.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 04 Feb 2005, 06:25

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
JohnShep wrote:Not quite,
1/ Naz always used Reyes.
2/ All gloves are attached at the thumb.
When did that become the case? i thought there were still some gloves

aren't there 'mexican style' which have the thumbs attatched, and the 'other' kind, or is that some time ago now?

Wasn't there some sort of to-do over the gloves?

Yes. As far as I remember there were two pairs of gloves (not talking brands here I mean selecting gloves before the fight) and Hamed wanted to choose first. Barrera went first and took the gloves Hamed wanted and he caused a stink about it. They were both identical gloves just Hamed wanted a particular pair. I think that was it anyway someone please correct me if I am wrong.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 04 Feb 2005, 06:38

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
JohnShep wrote:Not quite,
1/ Naz always used Reyes.
2/ All gloves are attached at the thumb.
When did that become the case? i thought there were still some gloves

aren't there 'mexican style' which have the thumbs attatched, and the 'other' kind, or is that some time ago now?

Wasn't there some sort of to-do over the gloves?

I think he's right, all gloves have to have the thumbs attached. The only "other" kind of gloves I can think of are a different shape like Everlast gloves which have more padding on the back "One kind of gloves are for punching the other kind is for blocking" as Foreman kept droning on about during Lewis-Holy 1.
I'm no expert though.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 04 Feb 2005, 06:51

All thumbs have to be attached.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Feb 2005, 06:57

I think I know what I meant, there are thumbed and 'thumbless' gloves, where the thumb is basically flush with the side of the glove, I know everlast make them.

Didn't the gloves in Ali's day though have a thumb which could move around?

Reyes are punchers gloves, what make were used for the Barrera v Naseem fight.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 04 Feb 2005, 07:02

Pretty sure it was Reyes gloves for Hamed v Barrera.

Thumbs used to be free of the glove, not sure when the rules changes but it was to try and reduce the risk of thumbings.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 04 Feb 2005, 07:03

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I think I know what I meant, there are thumbed and 'thumbless' gloves, where the thumb is basically flush with the side of the glove, I know everlast make them.

Didn't the gloves in Ali's day though have a thumb which could move around?

Yes think that's correct. Larry Holmes had a rep for using his thumb to good effect, when needed......

I think it might have come in around the time Ray Leonard was diagnosed with a detached retina?

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 04 Feb 2005, 11:03

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes I think that's right, Marquez was being avoided like the plague by everyone, and still is to this day, got to give Pacquaio credeit for taking him on.

Dodgy scoring in that fight.

~ Referee: Joe Cortez | Judge: John Stewart 110-115 | Judge: Burt Clements 113-113 | Judge: Guy Jutras 115-110 ~
WBA Featherweight Title
IBF Featherweight Title
Marquez down three times in 1st.

Were Stewart & Jutras watching the same fight?????

If you wonder why people slate boxing judges, look no further....

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Feb 2005, 11:17

I attended that one for maxboxing, and when the first two scores were read in press row for that fight, everyone around me started going, 'it's a goddamned draw.' Sadly they were right.

Judging in my opinion needs a huge shakeup, it's far too subjective. There should be more emphasis placed on telling them EXACTLY what to score, because right now too many judges seem to be going for their personal preference. Even one of the journalists at ringside said 'Yeah, but Pacquaio really laid it on him in that first round."

I reminded him that there were 11 other rounds, and it was like he was giving Pacquaio other rounds on his card because of what he did in the 1st round, which is just plain stupid.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 04 Feb 2005, 11:29

JohnShep wrote:I spoke to Marquez manager about the fight myself, I think it was Johnny Johnnson. And we hadn't even got to discussing the money / options when they turned it down.

Did he still tour with his Bandwagon?

One for the Northern Soul boys there.

As for gloves, all attached I understood. Wasn't Thompson in trouble for having the connection snipped for the Rothman fight?

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 04 Feb 2005, 11:37

As for Hamed's increasing reliance on one punch.

True all big-hitters get hypnotised by their own power. However, am I not right in thinking Manny Steward encouraged him to sit on his punches, increase his power by removing the unique and balletic footwork that usually precede some inexplicable leaping punch.

I.E. Make him more orthodox yet increase his power.

That was to me the beginning of the end, because without the wide angles and befuddment factor he just became a static target with poor prep and a big punch.

And Barrera, retrospective is easy, because 90% of British fans thought Hamed would KNOCK out Barrera after all Junior Jones had but we can all look back now and understand that Barrera had too much savvy to just stand and trade with Hamed.

But its the HAMED fight that really established MAB as a tactical great, we could call Hamed naive for falling for it or believing MAB was a one trick pony - but until HAMED, most of us thought he was.

But he proved and continues to prove, he's one of the cutest out there.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Feb 2005, 11:44

Steward is well known for his orthodoxy, and in fact it was either Kevin Kelly or Tom Johnson, I forget which, but when they said when they heard Hamed was going to be trained by Steward, that they thought he would be easier to hit, and therefore beat.

Not all power punchers get seduced by their power. Tommy Hearns hit as hard as anyone P4P in history, but he almost always backed it up with Savvy early in his career. I do wonder if there's any truth in Manny's stories about Tommy going in against Hagler with some problems, because standing and banging with hagler was as likely to succeed as trying to stop a truck with your face.

Hamed seemed already in decline before Manny got to him through, and quite possibly Manny told him what he wanted to hear, which is what manny seems to do these days. He was always on about how Hamed hit as hard as a heavyweight, and suchlike cobblers. No wonder Hamed got seduced by his power.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 04 Feb 2005, 11:53

I don’t know, I think Manny was simply the worst thing that ever happened to Hamed. Had he stayed with Ingle who knows? Of course Hamed was always essentially his own worst enemy as the money rolled in. I just get the feeling that Manny tried to apply his own technical skills knowledge to a style of fighter that he (and the world) hadn’t really seen before. One size doesn’t fit all… and Hamed’s strength was always his own individualism and unpredictability (in my opinion)

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Feb 2005, 12:19

It amazed me the other day when I read Manny Steward saying that prior to signing Vivian Harris, he didn't even know who he was.

How the fornicate can you be that involved in boxing and not even know that a guy who approaches you holds one of the major sanctioning bodies belts?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 04 Feb 2005, 13:19

jamesmcdonnell wrote:, because standing and banging with hagler was as likely to succeed as trying to stop a truck with your face.