Yep, glad you brought up the Bugner bout.Brutu wrote:I cant recall Frazier ever using dirty tatics,he was just always busy throwing left hook to body and head.
He didnt hit Bugner when Bugner was half down half on ropes
Maybe we can get Roman's input on that.Goodnight, Irene wrote:Foreman also showed great mercy & sportsmanship in multiple fights where his opponent was over-matched...take a look at his fight with Jimmy Ellis, as a stand-out instance.Brutu wrote:I cant recall Frazier ever using dirty tatics,he was just always busy throwing left hook to body and head.
He didnt hit Bugner when Bugner was half down half on ropes
Of course, that doesn't suit the nature of this less-than-open-minded thread.
Foreman hit Roman when he was down and illegally pushed-off in the first Frazier fight.Goodnight, Irene wrote:Pathetic. This isn't even a discussion on whether Foreman was generally dirty, which tactics, if any, he used, how they were effective, or anything along those lines.
This is simply pathetic.
Frazier got manhandled in Jamaica. He had lost his edge as champion and it was time for him to lose the title. I have no problem with that at all, which I have said repeatedly.Goodnight, Irene wrote:I refuse to really go for the throat where Frazier's concerned --- he's a class act, & I really am a fan, so I'm not gonna play your game. I don't think he'd be impressed with your jawing & excuse-making on his behalf, for what it's worth. Hey, he met a better man. It happens. Frazier's at peace with it. Obviously, you'll always have your fantasy to cling to. Go for it.
I'm not going to character-assisinate Joe Frazier in response.
"Frazier got manhandled in Jamaica"Goodnight, Irene wrote:Total denial. You just can't bring yourself to say he met a better man, can you? Given the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, it's rather sad.
Boring. I'm over it. 2-0.yancey wrote:"Frazier got manhandled in Jamaica"Goodnight, Irene wrote:Total denial. You just can't bring yourself to say he met a better man, can you? Given the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, it's rather sad.
What else does that imply but that Frazier met a better, stronger fighter that night in Jamaica?
I have no problem saying that.
It was time for Frazier to lose the title. He had lost some of that edge and desire as witnessed by his condition in Jamaica. Plus he was never the same after the FOTC.
What I also say is that Foreman got away with illegal push-offs in that fight and Frazier never got to fight his fight. It would have been better for both men had the title changed hands in a cleaner and fairer fashion. The referee should have stopped the pushing off, imo.
But you seem to have great difficulty in understanding this.
Maybe I'm just being asinine.
Whoops, I'm sorry, assassinine or however you Aussies spell it.
Cheers.
This thread reads as though he was the original Bernard HopkinsEzzard wrote:I've always thought that a boxer should do what he can to win and that it's up to the ref to prevent a fighter gaining an advanatge from any under hand tactics. Take points away and disqualify persistent foulers. Refs should be given more support and should be more willing to take points away from the cheats.
Thing is, what you won't hear in this thread is Foreman was dirty on fewer occasions, across the board, than any of those guys.TheGreatA wrote:He was a rough fighter. The Saddlers taught him a few tricks, although not the whole repertoire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQG7f6Mij4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmIxRXxOF6g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyiFIdbN2H4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI8EQTa1cbM
Still, just about all of the heavyweight champions bent the rules, Lewis with his hitting & holding, Holyfield with his headbutting, Ali with his clinching, Tyson with elbows. Foreman did with his pushing.
They aren't. They're ganging up on Foreman --- in Yancey's case, because he's unable to accept Foreman is flat-out Frazier's superior. He believes the Frazier who bested Quarry, Ellis & Ali (first fight, in every instance) beats Foreman, & will do anything to discredit the man who decimated his hero.ThatOne wrote:Why is evrybody ganging up on Good Night Irene?
I think there's a difference between hitting a guy when he's down for instance, and shoving a guy or clinching excessively. The former is done to seriously hurt a guy while the latter is done to gain a tactical advantage, albeit an unfair one to some.
None were cleaner than Joe Louisgranberry wrote:The two cleanest fighting heavyweight champions were Liston and Jim Jeffries.
They used only legitimate boxing techniques.
With their strength they could have manhandled their opponents but they stuck strictly to legitimate boxing.
I find it hilarious that there is no mention on this thread of the 'champion' who spent most of his time holding his opponent by the neck and head, tryiing to twist his opponent's head off, pushing his forearm into his opponent's neck right where the head joins the shoulder, pushing off with his forearm into his opponent's face at the end of clinches, hitting upward illegally into his opponent's face with the heel of his open hand when his opponent crouched, putting his forearm on his opponent's back and pushing him downward, etc.
NOT A WORD from all the internet boxing 'expert's here
about the 'champion whose 'boxing' repertoire consisted mostly of illegal fouls.
Jimmy Young prepared carefully for his fight with this 'champion' and in their fight Young negated each and every one of his opponent's fouls.
That left the poor guy with nothing but legitimate boxing to try, and he wasn't very good at it, as his embarrassing 15 rounds with Young showed.
Well, I'll give you this.Goodnight, Irene wrote:Thing is, what you won't hear in this thread is Foreman was dirty on fewer occasions, across the board, than any of those guys.TheGreatA wrote:He was a rough fighter. The Saddlers taught him a few tricks, although not the whole repertoire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQG7f6Mij4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmIxRXxOF6g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyiFIdbN2H4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI8EQTa1cbM
Still, just about all of the heavyweight champions bent the rules, Lewis with his hitting & holding, Holyfield with his headbutting, Ali with his clinching, Tyson with elbows. Foreman did with his pushing.
That's because this isn't a discussion-oriented thread. It is an assinine thread.
You really have your panties all in a bunch over this, don't you?Goodnight, Irene wrote:"The Toronto Five....
One of the most pathetic carnival displays I've ever seen, with Ali yanking his strings at ringside and laughing about George being crazy.
Does anybody remember the round or two when George wanted to show his mobility and started dancing around like a fool? I think he fell at one point.
That was a sad sight." - Yancey
At least it was a round or two only. Frazier --- even less-suited to movement --- hippity-hopped about the ring in his rematch with Foreman for five consecutive rounds. Of course, to be fair, Foreman was messing about, while we both know Frazier was running for his life.
Btw, what was your boy doing while Foreman was wrecking five men? He was taking longer to dispose of a washed-up Ellis than it took Foreman to defeat five opponents in one night. Oh, the grandeur. What cause to be high & mighty
Two fights. Two stoppages. Seven rounds. Eight knockdowns. I don't make all kinds of excuses for Foreman against Ali. ThatOne doesn't for Ali against Norton, & Robinson doesn't for Holmes against Spinks.
You should come to terms with who the better man is, was, & always will be --- on every level, from head-to-head, to accomplishment, to life success. Frazier has