Thanks guyskikibalt wrote:He was already hurt (Archie Moore fight) going into the Riggins fight, never should had fought that fight or any fight after the beating he received from Moore...raylawpc wrote:John Riggins hurt him badly during their 1962 fight. I read that he was carried from the ring on a stretcher, was in and out of comas for over two years after the fight, and underwent brain surgery at least once. He never fully recovered and he died in 1964 after his parents had him transported back to Argentina. A real tragedy.
I think he was considered quite a prospect before losing to Archie Moore in 1962.
Classic American West Coast Boxing
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
.dagosd2000 wrote:Thanks guyskikibalt wrote:He was already hurt (Archie Moore fight) going into the Riggins fight, never should had fought that fight or any fight after the beating he received from Moore...raylawpc wrote:John Riggins hurt him badly during their 1962 fight. I read that he was carried from the ring on a stretcher, was in and out of comas for over two years after the fight, and underwent brain surgery at least once. He never fully recovered and he died in 1964 after his parents had him transported back to Argentina. A real tragedy.
I think he was considered quite a prospect before losing to Archie Moore in 1962.I remember the Moore fight. I'll be honest, I was surprised Archie beat him especially at Moore's age and all those fights.
I was there for that fight Roger, A. L took an awfuf beating....
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
But only in the last few rounds, right? I thought that he had built up a lead and tired against Moore, who proceeded then to beat the living sh*t out of him. He also took a pretty good whipping between the Moore and Riggins fights from Cassius Clay.kikibalt wrote:.dagosd2000 wrote:Thanks guyskikibalt wrote: He was already hurt (Archie Moore fight) going into the Riggins fight, never should had fought that fight or any fight after the beating he received from Moore...I remember the Moore fight. I'll be honest, I was surprised Archie beat him especially at Moore's age and all those fights.
I was there for that fight Roger, A. L took an awfuf beating....
Did you see him the night that he stopped Zora Folley? I remember reading that he was considered quite the prospect after beating Folley, and George Parnassus tried to get Patterson to defend the title against him, but Patterson wanted too much money.
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Moyers & Mel Epstein . . .
Roger, I appreciate what you share about Denny Moyer.
I regret that I was not listening closer when Mel Epstein spoke of Denny and Phil.
Mel promoted boxing in the Pacific north/west. He talked of working "the circuit".
In 1972, a Cal State Northridge journalism student (a friend of Bobby Chacon) created a small L.A. boxing publication.
He had a few boxing personalities contribute. One was Mel Epstein.
Mel used it as a "bitch outlet" and condemned everything current.
Mel named his column in the little paper magazine "The Circuit".
The column had a little hand drawn characture of Mel above the text, beside the headline.
The drawing resembled a bent faced gnome, something evil.
When he showed Mike Nixon and I, we hit our knees laughing.
Mel wouldn't speak to either of us the rest of the day.
Later, I read Mel's article. It talked about a variety of his pet peeves relating to the contemporary boxing scene.
Too many phonies, women, buzzards circling hot prospects, long hair, etc.
He talked about how things were different in Butte, Montana . . . "A wide open town", he'd say.
He talked about Denny Moyer, "Now there was a fighter. His brother PHil could fight too."
Right about then I turned my Mel switch off. Why? Who knows, probably thinking about something he'd consider inappropriate.
He talked about some of Moyer's fights, in the gym, personal stuff. I was still digesting Young Firpo and Dave Shade.
My plate was full. I tuned out some good stuff, I'm sure. Maybe pieces to a puzzle?
-Rick Farris
Roger, I appreciate what you share about Denny Moyer.
I regret that I was not listening closer when Mel Epstein spoke of Denny and Phil.
Mel promoted boxing in the Pacific north/west. He talked of working "the circuit".
In 1972, a Cal State Northridge journalism student (a friend of Bobby Chacon) created a small L.A. boxing publication.
He had a few boxing personalities contribute. One was Mel Epstein.
Mel used it as a "bitch outlet" and condemned everything current.
Mel named his column in the little paper magazine "The Circuit".
The column had a little hand drawn characture of Mel above the text, beside the headline.
The drawing resembled a bent faced gnome, something evil.
When he showed Mike Nixon and I, we hit our knees laughing.
Mel wouldn't speak to either of us the rest of the day.
Later, I read Mel's article. It talked about a variety of his pet peeves relating to the contemporary boxing scene.
Too many phonies, women, buzzards circling hot prospects, long hair, etc.
He talked about how things were different in Butte, Montana . . . "A wide open town", he'd say.
He talked about Denny Moyer, "Now there was a fighter. His brother PHil could fight too."
Right about then I turned my Mel switch off. Why? Who knows, probably thinking about something he'd consider inappropriate.
He talked about some of Moyer's fights, in the gym, personal stuff. I was still digesting Young Firpo and Dave Shade.
My plate was full. I tuned out some good stuff, I'm sure. Maybe pieces to a puzzle?
-Rick Farris
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I was there for the Folley, yeah, at time of the Folley fight he was a hot prospect, maybe a little too much to soon?raylawpc wrote:But only in the last few rounds, right? I thought that he had built up a lead and tired against Moore, who proceeded then to beat the living sh*t out of him. He also took a pretty good whipping between the Moore and Riggins fights from Cassius Clay.kikibalt wrote:.dagosd2000 wrote: Thanks guysI remember the Moore fight. I'll be honest, I was surprised Archie beat him especially at Moore's age and all those fights.
I was there for that fight Roger, A. L took an awfuf beating....
Did you see him the night that he stopped Zora Folley? I remember reading that he was considered quite the prospect after beating Folley, and George Parnassus tried to get Patterson to defend the title against him, but Patterson wanted too much money.
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THEHAMMER321
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 945
- Joined: 09 Dec 2009, 05:55
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Rick I remember a Mike Nixon a middleweight who I think fought Vito AntefermoRick Farris wrote:The Moyers & Mel Epstein . . .
Roger, I appreciate what you share about Denny Moyer.
I regret that I was not listening closer when Mel Epstein spoke of Denny and Phil.
Mel promoted boxing in the Pacific north/west. He talked of working "the circuit".
In 1972, a Cal State Northridge journalism student (a friend of Bobby Chacon) created a small L.A. boxing publication.
He had a few boxing personalities contribute. One was Mel Epstein.
Mel used it as a "bitch outlet" and condemned everything current.
Mel named his column in the little paper magazine "The Circuit".
The column had a little hand drawn characture of Mel above the text, beside the headline.
The drawing resembled a bent faced gnome, something evil.
When he showed Mike Nixon and I, we hit our knees laughing.
Mel wouldn't speak to either of us the rest of the day.
Later, I read Mel's article. It talked about a variety of his pet peeves relating to the contemporary boxing scene.
Too many phonies, women, buzzards circling hot prospects, long hair, etc.
He talked about how things were different in Butte, Montana . . . "A wide open town", he'd say.
He talked about Denny Moyer, "Now there was a fighter. His brother PHil could fight too."
Right about then I turned my Mel switch off. Why? Who knows, probably thinking about something he'd consider inappropriate.
He talked about some of Moyer's fights, in the gym, personal stuff. I was still digesting Young Firpo and Dave Shade.
My plate was full. I tuned out some good stuff, I'm sure. Maybe pieces to a puzzle?
-Rick Farris
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
THEHAMMER321 wrote:Rick I remember a Mike Nixon a middleweight who I think fought Vito AntefermoRick Farris wrote:The Moyers & Mel Epstein . . .
Roger, I appreciate what you share about Denny Moyer.
I regret that I was not listening closer when Mel Epstein spoke of Denny and Phil.
Mel promoted boxing in the Pacific north/west. He talked of working "the circuit".
In 1972, a Cal State Northridge journalism student (a friend of Bobby Chacon) created a small L.A. boxing publication.
He had a few boxing personalities contribute. One was Mel Epstein.
Mel used it as a "bitch outlet" and condemned everything current.
Mel named his column in the little paper magazine "The Circuit".
The column had a little hand drawn characture of Mel above the text, beside the headline.
The drawing resembled a bent faced gnome, something evil.
When he showed Mike Nixon and I, we hit our knees laughing.
Mel wouldn't speak to either of us the rest of the day.
Later, I read Mel's article. It talked about a variety of his pet peeves relating to the contemporary boxing scene.
Too many phonies, women, buzzards circling hot prospects, long hair, etc.
He talked about how things were different in Butte, Montana . . . "A wide open town", he'd say.
He talked about Denny Moyer, "Now there was a fighter. His brother PHil could fight too."
Right about then I turned my Mel switch off. Why? Who knows, probably thinking about something he'd consider inappropriate.
He talked about some of Moyer's fights, in the gym, personal stuff. I was still digesting Young Firpo and Dave Shade.
My plate was full. I tuned out some good stuff, I'm sure. Maybe pieces to a puzzle?
-Rick Farris
That's him.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
You guys remember Dick Mastro's early '80s monthly publication?






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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Frank . . . I remember it.
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THEHAMMER321
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 945
- Joined: 09 Dec 2009, 05:55
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Frank that's the first time I saw those in over 20 years, someone I knew gave me ten of them back in the early 1980s had a fire in a room in my house destroyed most of my boxing magazines including that publication I do remember on one of the covers was a fighter called ''mighty might'' mike davis another one had a lady fighter on the cover Kathy davis Ithink was here name do you have those twokikibalt wrote:You guys remember Dick Mastro's early '80s monthly publication?
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
TANK TOWN
Rick Farris made a comment way back on the thread about San Diego being a point on the map where a fighter was either on his way up the ladder or was in the twilight of a career. Never dawned on me back then,but that was true.
Kenny Norton started out at the Coliseum after leaving the Corps in San Diego and eventually got out of Dodge. He was looked at as part of Ali's bum of the month club so they staged the fight at the local Sports Arena. Evidently Kenny didn't read his lines and broke Muhammad's jaw. In the 12th round Ali was out on his feet. I asked the referee,Frank Rustich,afterwards if he was thinking of stepping in.
"Too much money was riding that night."
OK.I can take a hint. Ali and Kenny fought two more times. The LA. Forum and Yankee Stadium. Way out of San Diego's league.
Archie Moore,though not beginning his career in San Diego,was a mainstay for fans down here. It was before my time,but to hear of Archie's fights with Johnny Romero and the Hogue brothers. (Got to get that time machine).By the time Archie had wrested the crown off Maxim's head,he never fought in San Diego again,though he called San Diego his home.
I saw Ronnie Wilson start here and finish in the same spot. Ronnie had his chance against Mike Quarry in Woodland Hills,but couldn't come through. So he was back home again.
Denny Moyer was dripping his blood on the Coliseum mat when should have retired five years before. He knew the Garden wasn't going to ever call him up again.
Tijuana had some great cards. In the 60's there were often excellent fights between two great fighters. (Saldivar/Laguna for an example).Then when the peso took a hit it would boil down to a great Mexican champ against a set up guy to keep the aficianados happy. I saw the Saldivar/Shibata fight at the TJ Auditorio. Shibata pulled the rosin box from under Vicente's feet and won a championship.
For the life of me I can only think of one championship fight in San Diego. I saw Saad Muhammad take out Lotte Mwale in 4 frames at the Sports Arena.
San Diego was a fight fan's "tweener." A good weekly card usually controlled by the promoters in LA. or Tijuana's Ignacio Huizar. Wes Wambold,an Aussie ,put on a few shows,but at least Ailenne Eaton and the Greek were nice enough to keep things active down here. And Ignacio would fortify us with some of his Mexican boys.
So San Diego,I guess you could call,was a tank town. Like Sacramento. Like Reynosa,Mexico. Like all the tank towns,that without them, we wouldn't have the footprints on the stepping stones to the championshop belts.
By the way. Did I mention a 15 year old Gato Gonzalez fought in my wife's hometown,Jiquilpan ,Michoacan?
Rick Farris made a comment way back on the thread about San Diego being a point on the map where a fighter was either on his way up the ladder or was in the twilight of a career. Never dawned on me back then,but that was true.
Kenny Norton started out at the Coliseum after leaving the Corps in San Diego and eventually got out of Dodge. He was looked at as part of Ali's bum of the month club so they staged the fight at the local Sports Arena. Evidently Kenny didn't read his lines and broke Muhammad's jaw. In the 12th round Ali was out on his feet. I asked the referee,Frank Rustich,afterwards if he was thinking of stepping in.
"Too much money was riding that night."
OK.I can take a hint. Ali and Kenny fought two more times. The LA. Forum and Yankee Stadium. Way out of San Diego's league.
Archie Moore,though not beginning his career in San Diego,was a mainstay for fans down here. It was before my time,but to hear of Archie's fights with Johnny Romero and the Hogue brothers. (Got to get that time machine).By the time Archie had wrested the crown off Maxim's head,he never fought in San Diego again,though he called San Diego his home.
I saw Ronnie Wilson start here and finish in the same spot. Ronnie had his chance against Mike Quarry in Woodland Hills,but couldn't come through. So he was back home again.
Denny Moyer was dripping his blood on the Coliseum mat when should have retired five years before. He knew the Garden wasn't going to ever call him up again.
Tijuana had some great cards. In the 60's there were often excellent fights between two great fighters. (Saldivar/Laguna for an example).Then when the peso took a hit it would boil down to a great Mexican champ against a set up guy to keep the aficianados happy. I saw the Saldivar/Shibata fight at the TJ Auditorio. Shibata pulled the rosin box from under Vicente's feet and won a championship.
For the life of me I can only think of one championship fight in San Diego. I saw Saad Muhammad take out Lotte Mwale in 4 frames at the Sports Arena.
San Diego was a fight fan's "tweener." A good weekly card usually controlled by the promoters in LA. or Tijuana's Ignacio Huizar. Wes Wambold,an Aussie ,put on a few shows,but at least Ailenne Eaton and the Greek were nice enough to keep things active down here. And Ignacio would fortify us with some of his Mexican boys.
So San Diego,I guess you could call,was a tank town. Like Sacramento. Like Reynosa,Mexico. Like all the tank towns,that without them, we wouldn't have the footprints on the stepping stones to the championshop belts.
By the way. Did I mention a 15 year old Gato Gonzalez fought in my wife's hometown,Jiquilpan ,Michoacan?
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 21 Jan 2010, 21:22, edited 1 time in total.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
With some of the memorabilia Frank has in his possession,he could sell it on EBAY and buy Connie a new car to go to work inkikibalt wrote:You guys remember Dick Mastro's early '80s monthly publication?
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Courtesy of thesweetscience.com

The Hands of Stone at his peak--the sweet science at its most savage.
The Fifth God Of War: Roberto Duran
By Springs Toledo
“Yield to the god.”
~ Virgil, the Aeneid
The battered and bloodied world welterweight champion Barney Ross glowered at his three corner men as the thirteenth round was about to begin. “If you stop this fight,” he said, “I’ll never talk to you the rest of my life.” In the opposite corner, a surging Henry Armstrong sprang out of his corner at the bell. Trainer Ray Arcel, a cotton swap in his mouth, watched the last three rounds with Ross’s words echoing in his ears and a prayer on his lips. He prayed not that Barney would win, but that Barney would survive.
The defeated boxer was brought back to the hotel where Arcel put hot towels on his swollen face and tended to his wounds. He stayed with him for four days and four nights.
That was 1938. Arcel was already in the fight game twenty years. He was in New York City at the beginning, when a troupe of great Jewish boxers left Grupp’s gym in Harlem and walked nine blocks north to Stillman’s gym. Arcel would teach hundreds of young men how to fight, including twenty world champions. His first was Frankie Genaro in 1923. His last was fifty years later.
Arcel met Freddie Brown at Stillman’s. Brown grew up on Forsythe Street in the Lower East side not three miles from Benny Leonard’s house. He began training in the 1920s and had what A.J. Liebling described as the unmistakable appearance of old fighters: “small men with mashed noses and quick eyes” and a chewed-up stogie stuck on his lip that contrasted nicely with the clean cotton swap of Arcel.
MANGOS
Twenty-year-old Roberto Duran’s American debut was at Madison Square Garden. Thirteen thousand, two hundred and eleven ticket-buyers watched him lay out Benny Huertas like a door mat in sixty-six seconds. Dave Anderson covered the fight for the New York Times. “Remember the name –,” he advised.
A startled Ray Arcel saw that stone fist land on Huertas’ temple from an aisle seat. As the Panamanian left the ring on his way to the dressing room he startled the old man again with a polite greeting for him and his wife. A month later Duran would be introduced to Freddie Brown and the triumvirate would be complete.
“When I came into his camp in 1972, he was just a slugger until I taught him finesse,” Brown remembered. A slugger? Duran was worse than that. He was a savage. Duran was a Roman wolf-child placed in a civilizing school where the arts of war were taught by ancient masters. Like Agrippina summoned Seneca to tutor a young Nero, Duran’s manager summoned Arcel. Arcel brought in Freddie Brown. It took not one, but two eminent trainers to tame Duran, and Brown bore the brunt of it –camping outside of his door to chase away the girls, waking him up early in the morning to do his roadwork, locking the cupboards.
The two old men never did completely civilize their pupil, though they did better than Seneca –Nero became emperor and used Christians as human torches to light the streets of Rome. Duran listened, and because he listened his mind was filled with a century’s worth of ring knowledge.
In 1972 Duran indecently assaulted lightweight champion Ken Buchanan and snatched his crown. His reign of terror lasted six years and twelve title defenses.
“The only guy we had like him,” Brown told Pete Hamill, “is Henry Armstrong.” Arcel trained Armstrong after Ross retired and understood the intricacies of explosive boxing. Both trainers knew the value of intelligence in the ring. “Boxing,” said Arcel whenever the subject came up, “is brain over brawn…if you can’t think, you’re just another bum in the park.” Duran was not only “one of the most vicious fighters we’ve ever had,” said Brown, he was “one of the smartest.”
George Herbert once said that “a great ship asks deep water.” Roberto Duran didn’t ask, he invaded the welterweight division when it was as deep as it ever was. Waiting for him were two bangers in Pipino Cuevas and Thomas Hearns, defensive specialist Wilfred Benitez, boxer Carlos Palomino, and the smiling celebrity who lorded over them all –the boxer-puncher Ray Leonard.
MALICE
By the end of 1979 a clash between Leonard and Duran was almost certain. Duran had already retired former welterweight champion Palomino in a dominant performance, while Leonard stopped Benitez and took his title. They fought separately on the Larry Holmes-Ernie Shavers undercard and Leonard’s trainer Angelo Dundee watched the Duran bout very carefully. “Duran is thought of as a rough guy, but he’s not rough,” he observed, “he’s smart and slick.”
Arcel, 81 and Brown, 73 were watching Leonard as well, though they were very familiar with his style and how to beat it. They had already trained about thirty world champions between them, while the fifty-eight year old Dundee had nine on his resume. In fact, Dundee’s novitiate was at Stillman’s gym where he handed towels to the two masters he now matched wits with.
The posturing began soon enough. At Gleason’s gym, Leonard was watching Duran skip rope when Duran spotted him and began lashing the rope with uncanny speed –while squatting. At a press conference at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York City, Leonard was cuffed by Duran, who claimed that Leonard put his hand near his face. Two days before the fight, both men were at an indoor mall in Montreal and Duran learned just enough English to yell “two more days! Two more days!” Leonard blew a kiss and Duran charged at him and had to be restrained.
Duran was getting mean, but it was Leonard who had every physical advantage in his favor. He was younger, faster, taller, and bigger. “I’m not Ali,” he insisted to the pundits, “Sure, maybe at the start I was trying to do his shuffle or his rope-a-dope, but not now.” In his last two outings, Duran looked pudgy as he struggled against two comparative novices before stopping them. The previous three welterweights he faced went the full ten rounds. Never before had three opponents in a row gone the distance with him and there was chatter about not only his power at 147 lbs. but his motivation. Duran himself admitted that he was not always committed to training and his trainers did too, though a warning was attached: “When you’re fighting smear cases and you’re the best fighter around, it’s hard to be interested, but now he’s inspired and when he’s inspired, he’s relentless,” Arcel said, “Leonard can’t beat this guy.”
The odds makers disagreed. Duran was a 9-5 underdog.
Leonard was confident enough (and good enough) to ask permission from an aging Sugar Ray Robinson to borrow “Sugar.” But he couldn’t have anticipated how many lumps he’d get from a man who had more in common with fighters from Robinson’s era than he ever would. As Leonard made his way toward the ring on June 20th 1980, Roberto Duran shadow boxed his own demons in the red corner. Both were in the best condition of their lives, but one of them exuded almost preternatural malevolence.
Arcel had already promised that we’d witness “the darndest fight” we’ve “ever seen” –and we did.
Duran had promised to use “old tricks” against Leonard. Old tricks. Freddie Brown’s fingerprints were all over the Duran-Leonard fight. He trained Duran at Grossinger’s Resort in the Catskills, where he worked with Rocky Marciano in the fifties and Joey Archer in the sixties. Brown had more tricks than a cathouse, such as how to hold an opponent in the crook of the arm to stop incoming shots and create the perception that the opponent was doing nothing. Then there was the “Fitzsimmons shift.” Dundee himself might never have heard of it, but he saw it alright: “…if [Duran] missed you with an overhand right,” he observed, “he’d turn southpaw and come back with a left hook to the body.” Duran can be seen executing this against Leonard in the fifth, seventh, and eighth rounds. Bob Fitzsimmons invented it and used it to implode heavyweight champion Gentleman Jim Corbett in 1897. It’s a peach of a move; and it’s older than Ray Arcel himself.
Stone Hands controlled the action in this career-defining bout, but make no mistake, his savvy was no less a deciding factor than his savagery; and the Sugar Man pushed him almost beyond his limits. The crowd was his. Every now and then a thin and solitary Nicaraguan with a mustache could be seen standing up from his seat and waving a little Panamanian flag. It was Alexis Arguello, another fan of the great Duran.
MYTHS
Duran’s strategy was drilled into him. He was instructed to be elusive against the jab, close the distance, crowd Leonard, and hammer the body. Leonard’s aggressive strategy was not expected. It made things more not less difficult to cope with for precisely the reasons that Dundee had alluded to –good little guys don’t beat good big guys. “In this fight, Duran’s not the puncher,” he added, “my guy is.” Their respective knockout percentages over their previous five fights confirmed this: Duran’s was 40%, Leonard’s was 100%. Leonard stated that he planned on “standing and fighting more than expected.” “They all think I’m going to run. I’m not,” he said to New York Magazine, “I’m not changing my style at all… he’ll be beaten to the punch…those are the facts,” he continued, “What’s going to beat Roberto Duran is Sugar Ray Leonard.”
Dundee substantiated this in his autobiography. Leonard’s strategy became certain from the moment that he watched the films and deconstructed Duran’s style. Duran, he said, was a “heel-to-toe guy. He takes two steps to get to you. So the idea was not to give him those two steps, not to move too far away because the more distance you gave him, the more effective he was. What you can’t do in the face of Duran’s aggression was run from it, because then he picks up momentum. My guy wasn’t going to run from him.”
So there you have it.
Leonard’s strategy in Montreal was deliberate, and sound. After the fight, Dundee and Leonard revised history and a willing press has gone along with it ever since. We’ve been spoon-fed a fable that has long since crystallized into orthodox boxing lore. It is the archetypal image of the Latin bully who “tricked” the All-American Hero into an alley fight, and it sprang from the idea that Leonard “did not fight his fight” because Duran challenged his masculinity. The problem is that it is at complete odds with statements made by Leonard and Dundee about Leonard’s clear physical advantages and the strategy that would be formed around those advantages. It contradicts Dundee’s earlier statements about Duran’s high level of skill and it contradicts statements that both had made immediately after the bout –before they had time to think about posterity: “You’ve got to give credit to Duran,” Dundee told journalists, “he makes you fight his fight.” When asked why he fought Duran’s fight, Leonard said he had “no alternative.”
Since then, Leonard’s loss to Duran has been cleverly spun, re-packaged, and sold at a reduced price. It’s time to find our receipt and exchange a fable for the facts. And the facts begin with this: when both fighters were at their best, Duran was better.
MEMENTO MORI
Duran’s record now stood at 72-1 (56). As he simmered down in the aftermath, the magnitude of what had just happened set in. He knew that Leonard was great. At the post-fight press conference he was asked if Ray Leonard was the toughest opponent he ever faced. Duran, his face scuffed and swollen, hesitated and thought for a moment. “Si,” he softly said, “…si.”
And then something changed. Whatever it was that raged inside Roberto Duran –a legion of devils, his hatred of Leonard, the memory of a child begging on the streets of Chorrillo– faded from that moment.
He became more sedate. After thirteen years of pasion violenta and after a victory that is almost without equal in the annals of boxing history, he fell like all who forget that they are mortal; and his humiliation would be so complete that it would obscure everything else.
Old embers would flare up only sporadically after the fateful year of 1980. Three times more he would remind the world of his greatness against men that no lightweight in his right mind would ever face. By then his trainers had walked away and soon retired for keeps. They joined us and watched a melting legend fight youngsters. As the curtain slowly dropped on a career that would span over thirty years, there was little left that recalled what he was; just some old tricks in an arsenal ransacked by age and an unbecoming appetite.
But what he was should not be eclipsed.
It should be remembered.
When the splendor that was Sugar Ray Leonard had the whole sports world squinting, Freddie Brown and Ray Arcel applied that old school method in the shadow of Stillman’s gym. They brought the Panamanian to a peak of human performance so perfect in its blend of science and ferocity that it would never be approached again –by Duran or anyone else.
Fifteen rounds unveiled a god of war.
After the final bell, a jubilant Duran leaps into the air. Before he lands he sees Leonard daring to raise his arms in victory and the coals of his eyes burn. He shoves and spits at his adversary, then stalks toward the ropes at ringside and grabs his crotch as he hurls Spanish epithets. Arcel tries to calm him down. Leonard’s brother Roger rushes him and is knocked flat with one shot. The announcer shouts “le nouveau--” into the microphone, and victorious, the raging champion is hoisted up above the crowd –above the world, still cursing the vanquished.
This is Duran. ***************
ROBERTO DURAN'S SCORECARD
-25 points-
Experience: 25
-15 points-
Ring Generalship: 14
Longevity: 14
Dominance: 13
-10 points-
Durability: 9
P/LO: 9
Intangibles: 5
TOTAL: 89
…..
The graphic enhancements are the work of Jason McMann of Plymouth, MA.
The author is indebted to Ronald K. Fried’s Corner Men and to Pete Hamill, Michael Katz and Dave Anderson for their expert coverage of the Duran-Leonard bout in 1980. Anderson’s In the Corner, Christian Giudice’s biography Hands of Stone and George Kimball’s outstanding Four Kings were also valuable resources.
Springs Toledo can be contacted at [email protected].

The Hands of Stone at his peak--the sweet science at its most savage.
The Fifth God Of War: Roberto Duran
By Springs Toledo
“Yield to the god.”
~ Virgil, the Aeneid
The battered and bloodied world welterweight champion Barney Ross glowered at his three corner men as the thirteenth round was about to begin. “If you stop this fight,” he said, “I’ll never talk to you the rest of my life.” In the opposite corner, a surging Henry Armstrong sprang out of his corner at the bell. Trainer Ray Arcel, a cotton swap in his mouth, watched the last three rounds with Ross’s words echoing in his ears and a prayer on his lips. He prayed not that Barney would win, but that Barney would survive.
The defeated boxer was brought back to the hotel where Arcel put hot towels on his swollen face and tended to his wounds. He stayed with him for four days and four nights.
That was 1938. Arcel was already in the fight game twenty years. He was in New York City at the beginning, when a troupe of great Jewish boxers left Grupp’s gym in Harlem and walked nine blocks north to Stillman’s gym. Arcel would teach hundreds of young men how to fight, including twenty world champions. His first was Frankie Genaro in 1923. His last was fifty years later.
Arcel met Freddie Brown at Stillman’s. Brown grew up on Forsythe Street in the Lower East side not three miles from Benny Leonard’s house. He began training in the 1920s and had what A.J. Liebling described as the unmistakable appearance of old fighters: “small men with mashed noses and quick eyes” and a chewed-up stogie stuck on his lip that contrasted nicely with the clean cotton swap of Arcel.
MANGOS
Twenty-year-old Roberto Duran’s American debut was at Madison Square Garden. Thirteen thousand, two hundred and eleven ticket-buyers watched him lay out Benny Huertas like a door mat in sixty-six seconds. Dave Anderson covered the fight for the New York Times. “Remember the name –,” he advised.
A startled Ray Arcel saw that stone fist land on Huertas’ temple from an aisle seat. As the Panamanian left the ring on his way to the dressing room he startled the old man again with a polite greeting for him and his wife. A month later Duran would be introduced to Freddie Brown and the triumvirate would be complete.
“When I came into his camp in 1972, he was just a slugger until I taught him finesse,” Brown remembered. A slugger? Duran was worse than that. He was a savage. Duran was a Roman wolf-child placed in a civilizing school where the arts of war were taught by ancient masters. Like Agrippina summoned Seneca to tutor a young Nero, Duran’s manager summoned Arcel. Arcel brought in Freddie Brown. It took not one, but two eminent trainers to tame Duran, and Brown bore the brunt of it –camping outside of his door to chase away the girls, waking him up early in the morning to do his roadwork, locking the cupboards.
The two old men never did completely civilize their pupil, though they did better than Seneca –Nero became emperor and used Christians as human torches to light the streets of Rome. Duran listened, and because he listened his mind was filled with a century’s worth of ring knowledge.
In 1972 Duran indecently assaulted lightweight champion Ken Buchanan and snatched his crown. His reign of terror lasted six years and twelve title defenses.
“The only guy we had like him,” Brown told Pete Hamill, “is Henry Armstrong.” Arcel trained Armstrong after Ross retired and understood the intricacies of explosive boxing. Both trainers knew the value of intelligence in the ring. “Boxing,” said Arcel whenever the subject came up, “is brain over brawn…if you can’t think, you’re just another bum in the park.” Duran was not only “one of the most vicious fighters we’ve ever had,” said Brown, he was “one of the smartest.”
George Herbert once said that “a great ship asks deep water.” Roberto Duran didn’t ask, he invaded the welterweight division when it was as deep as it ever was. Waiting for him were two bangers in Pipino Cuevas and Thomas Hearns, defensive specialist Wilfred Benitez, boxer Carlos Palomino, and the smiling celebrity who lorded over them all –the boxer-puncher Ray Leonard.
MALICE
By the end of 1979 a clash between Leonard and Duran was almost certain. Duran had already retired former welterweight champion Palomino in a dominant performance, while Leonard stopped Benitez and took his title. They fought separately on the Larry Holmes-Ernie Shavers undercard and Leonard’s trainer Angelo Dundee watched the Duran bout very carefully. “Duran is thought of as a rough guy, but he’s not rough,” he observed, “he’s smart and slick.”
Arcel, 81 and Brown, 73 were watching Leonard as well, though they were very familiar with his style and how to beat it. They had already trained about thirty world champions between them, while the fifty-eight year old Dundee had nine on his resume. In fact, Dundee’s novitiate was at Stillman’s gym where he handed towels to the two masters he now matched wits with.
The posturing began soon enough. At Gleason’s gym, Leonard was watching Duran skip rope when Duran spotted him and began lashing the rope with uncanny speed –while squatting. At a press conference at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York City, Leonard was cuffed by Duran, who claimed that Leonard put his hand near his face. Two days before the fight, both men were at an indoor mall in Montreal and Duran learned just enough English to yell “two more days! Two more days!” Leonard blew a kiss and Duran charged at him and had to be restrained.
Duran was getting mean, but it was Leonard who had every physical advantage in his favor. He was younger, faster, taller, and bigger. “I’m not Ali,” he insisted to the pundits, “Sure, maybe at the start I was trying to do his shuffle or his rope-a-dope, but not now.” In his last two outings, Duran looked pudgy as he struggled against two comparative novices before stopping them. The previous three welterweights he faced went the full ten rounds. Never before had three opponents in a row gone the distance with him and there was chatter about not only his power at 147 lbs. but his motivation. Duran himself admitted that he was not always committed to training and his trainers did too, though a warning was attached: “When you’re fighting smear cases and you’re the best fighter around, it’s hard to be interested, but now he’s inspired and when he’s inspired, he’s relentless,” Arcel said, “Leonard can’t beat this guy.”
The odds makers disagreed. Duran was a 9-5 underdog.
Leonard was confident enough (and good enough) to ask permission from an aging Sugar Ray Robinson to borrow “Sugar.” But he couldn’t have anticipated how many lumps he’d get from a man who had more in common with fighters from Robinson’s era than he ever would. As Leonard made his way toward the ring on June 20th 1980, Roberto Duran shadow boxed his own demons in the red corner. Both were in the best condition of their lives, but one of them exuded almost preternatural malevolence.
Arcel had already promised that we’d witness “the darndest fight” we’ve “ever seen” –and we did.
Duran had promised to use “old tricks” against Leonard. Old tricks. Freddie Brown’s fingerprints were all over the Duran-Leonard fight. He trained Duran at Grossinger’s Resort in the Catskills, where he worked with Rocky Marciano in the fifties and Joey Archer in the sixties. Brown had more tricks than a cathouse, such as how to hold an opponent in the crook of the arm to stop incoming shots and create the perception that the opponent was doing nothing. Then there was the “Fitzsimmons shift.” Dundee himself might never have heard of it, but he saw it alright: “…if [Duran] missed you with an overhand right,” he observed, “he’d turn southpaw and come back with a left hook to the body.” Duran can be seen executing this against Leonard in the fifth, seventh, and eighth rounds. Bob Fitzsimmons invented it and used it to implode heavyweight champion Gentleman Jim Corbett in 1897. It’s a peach of a move; and it’s older than Ray Arcel himself.
Stone Hands controlled the action in this career-defining bout, but make no mistake, his savvy was no less a deciding factor than his savagery; and the Sugar Man pushed him almost beyond his limits. The crowd was his. Every now and then a thin and solitary Nicaraguan with a mustache could be seen standing up from his seat and waving a little Panamanian flag. It was Alexis Arguello, another fan of the great Duran.
MYTHS
Duran’s strategy was drilled into him. He was instructed to be elusive against the jab, close the distance, crowd Leonard, and hammer the body. Leonard’s aggressive strategy was not expected. It made things more not less difficult to cope with for precisely the reasons that Dundee had alluded to –good little guys don’t beat good big guys. “In this fight, Duran’s not the puncher,” he added, “my guy is.” Their respective knockout percentages over their previous five fights confirmed this: Duran’s was 40%, Leonard’s was 100%. Leonard stated that he planned on “standing and fighting more than expected.” “They all think I’m going to run. I’m not,” he said to New York Magazine, “I’m not changing my style at all… he’ll be beaten to the punch…those are the facts,” he continued, “What’s going to beat Roberto Duran is Sugar Ray Leonard.”
Dundee substantiated this in his autobiography. Leonard’s strategy became certain from the moment that he watched the films and deconstructed Duran’s style. Duran, he said, was a “heel-to-toe guy. He takes two steps to get to you. So the idea was not to give him those two steps, not to move too far away because the more distance you gave him, the more effective he was. What you can’t do in the face of Duran’s aggression was run from it, because then he picks up momentum. My guy wasn’t going to run from him.”
So there you have it.
Leonard’s strategy in Montreal was deliberate, and sound. After the fight, Dundee and Leonard revised history and a willing press has gone along with it ever since. We’ve been spoon-fed a fable that has long since crystallized into orthodox boxing lore. It is the archetypal image of the Latin bully who “tricked” the All-American Hero into an alley fight, and it sprang from the idea that Leonard “did not fight his fight” because Duran challenged his masculinity. The problem is that it is at complete odds with statements made by Leonard and Dundee about Leonard’s clear physical advantages and the strategy that would be formed around those advantages. It contradicts Dundee’s earlier statements about Duran’s high level of skill and it contradicts statements that both had made immediately after the bout –before they had time to think about posterity: “You’ve got to give credit to Duran,” Dundee told journalists, “he makes you fight his fight.” When asked why he fought Duran’s fight, Leonard said he had “no alternative.”
Since then, Leonard’s loss to Duran has been cleverly spun, re-packaged, and sold at a reduced price. It’s time to find our receipt and exchange a fable for the facts. And the facts begin with this: when both fighters were at their best, Duran was better.
MEMENTO MORI
Duran’s record now stood at 72-1 (56). As he simmered down in the aftermath, the magnitude of what had just happened set in. He knew that Leonard was great. At the post-fight press conference he was asked if Ray Leonard was the toughest opponent he ever faced. Duran, his face scuffed and swollen, hesitated and thought for a moment. “Si,” he softly said, “…si.”
And then something changed. Whatever it was that raged inside Roberto Duran –a legion of devils, his hatred of Leonard, the memory of a child begging on the streets of Chorrillo– faded from that moment.
He became more sedate. After thirteen years of pasion violenta and after a victory that is almost without equal in the annals of boxing history, he fell like all who forget that they are mortal; and his humiliation would be so complete that it would obscure everything else.
Old embers would flare up only sporadically after the fateful year of 1980. Three times more he would remind the world of his greatness against men that no lightweight in his right mind would ever face. By then his trainers had walked away and soon retired for keeps. They joined us and watched a melting legend fight youngsters. As the curtain slowly dropped on a career that would span over thirty years, there was little left that recalled what he was; just some old tricks in an arsenal ransacked by age and an unbecoming appetite.
But what he was should not be eclipsed.
It should be remembered.
When the splendor that was Sugar Ray Leonard had the whole sports world squinting, Freddie Brown and Ray Arcel applied that old school method in the shadow of Stillman’s gym. They brought the Panamanian to a peak of human performance so perfect in its blend of science and ferocity that it would never be approached again –by Duran or anyone else.
Fifteen rounds unveiled a god of war.
After the final bell, a jubilant Duran leaps into the air. Before he lands he sees Leonard daring to raise his arms in victory and the coals of his eyes burn. He shoves and spits at his adversary, then stalks toward the ropes at ringside and grabs his crotch as he hurls Spanish epithets. Arcel tries to calm him down. Leonard’s brother Roger rushes him and is knocked flat with one shot. The announcer shouts “le nouveau--” into the microphone, and victorious, the raging champion is hoisted up above the crowd –above the world, still cursing the vanquished.
This is Duran. ***************
ROBERTO DURAN'S SCORECARD
-25 points-
Experience: 25
-15 points-
Ring Generalship: 14
Longevity: 14
Dominance: 13
-10 points-
Durability: 9
P/LO: 9
Intangibles: 5
TOTAL: 89
…..
The graphic enhancements are the work of Jason McMann of Plymouth, MA.
The author is indebted to Ronald K. Fried’s Corner Men and to Pete Hamill, Michael Katz and Dave Anderson for their expert coverage of the Duran-Leonard bout in 1980. Anderson’s In the Corner, Christian Giudice’s biography Hands of Stone and George Kimball’s outstanding Four Kings were also valuable resources.
Springs Toledo can be contacted at [email protected].
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I know all about the Mel switch. I loved his stories but when he was pissed or in a grouchy mood when he telling it.......Rick Farris wrote:The Moyers & Mel Epstein . . .
Roger, I appreciate what you share about Denny Moyer.
I regret that I was not listening closer when Mel Epstein spoke of Denny and Phil.
Mel promoted boxing in the Pacific north/west. He talked of working "the circuit".
In 1972, a Cal State Northridge journalism student (a friend of Bobby Chacon) created a small L.A. boxing publication.
He had a few boxing personalities contribute. One was Mel Epstein.
Mel used it as a "bitch outlet" and condemned everything current.
Mel named his column in the little paper magazine "The Circuit".
The column had a little hand drawn characture of Mel above the text, beside the headline.
The drawing resembled a bent faced gnome, something evil.
When he showed Mike Nixon and I, we hit our knees laughing.
Mel wouldn't speak to either of us the rest of the day.
Later, I read Mel's article. It talked about a variety of his pet peeves relating to the contemporary boxing scene.
Too many phonies, women, buzzards circling hot prospects, long hair, etc.
He talked about how things were different in Butte, Montana . . . "A wide open town", he'd say.
He talked about Denny Moyer, "Now there was a fighter. His brother PHil could fight too."
Right about then I turned my Mel switch off. Why? Who knows, probably thinking about something he'd consider inappropriate.
He talked about some of Moyer's fights, in the gym, personal stuff. I was still digesting Young Firpo and Dave Shade.
My plate was full. I tuned out some good stuff, I'm sure. Maybe pieces to a puzzle?
-Rick Farris
Great story.
Randy
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I do remember the magazine Frank, I might even have a couple in a box somewhere.kikibalt wrote:You guys remember Dick Mastro's early '80s monthly publication?
Randy
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Hammer, I think that was "Mighty Mark Davis", Mark is the son of Kenny Davis Sr. who was an outstanding amateur in the late '40s-early '50, didn't do to good as a pro, he also had another son that fought pro Kenny Davis Jr. Sr. late became a referee here in L.A.THEHAMMER321 wrote: Frank that's the first time I saw those in over 20 years, someone I knew gave me ten of them back in the early 1980s had a fire in a room in my house destroyed most of my boxing magazines including that publication I do remember on one of the covers was a fighter called ''mighty might'' mike davis another one had a lady fighter on the cover Kathy davis Ithink was here name do you have those two
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Kenny Davis Sr.


Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Don't give Connie any ideas Roger......dagosd2000 wrote:
With some of the memorabilia Frank has in his possession,he could sell it on EBAY and buy Connie a new car to go to work in
-
Rick Farris
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Frank, do you remember this fighter?:
---------------------------------------------
Bobby Why
birth date 1925-01-10
featherweight
residence Los Angeles, California, United States
birth place San Luis Obispo, CA, USA
birth name Robert William Garcia
won 24 (KO 10) + lost 15 (KO 7) + drawn 3 = 42
rounds boxed 289 KO% 23.81
1954-10-19 128¾ Tommy Collins 129½ 60-11-0
Arena, Boston, Massachusetts, United States L RTD 5 10
~ referee: Jimmy McCarron ~
Why was down in the 5th, and not out for the 6th round.
1954-05-22 126 Kenny Davis 126 7-3-2
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States W SD 10 10
~ referee: Abe Roth 60-50 | judge: Tommy Hart 54½-55½ | judge: Jack McDonald 56-54 ~
1953-11-17 134 Larry Cantiberos 132½ 5-3-0
Honolulu, Hawaii, United States W TKO 5
Why was declared the winner when an accidental butt by Cantiberos opened a cut over Why's eye
1953-11-02 134 Aladino Guzman 137 7-1-0
Civic Auditorium, Honolulu, Hawaii, United States W KO 1 10
~ time: 1:54 ~
1953-10-14 132 Charley Riley 132 69-26-1
Arena, Saint Louis, Missouri, United States L RTD 4 10
~ referee: Rocky Marciano ~
Why was unable to answer the bell for the 5th round.
1953-08-31 131 Tommy Manaois 131 22-11-4
Arena, South Gate, California, United States W PTS 10 10
1953-07-28 130¼ Cisco Andrade 133½ 13-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L RTD 9 10
~ referee: Reggie Gilmore ~
Why was knocked down at the end of the 9th round, and was carried to his corner. He did not come out for the 10th round.
1953-06-15 131 Larry Mujica 132½ 31-9-4
Miami, Florida, United States L TKO 7 10
1953-04-14 132 Johnny Butterworth 133½ 25-3-1
Memorial Auditorium, Sacramento, California, United States W TKO 3 10
1953-03-24 132½ Carlos Chavez 135 56-21-9
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Joe Stone 54-56 | judge: Jimmy Wallace 53-57 | judge: Lee Grossman 54½-55½ ~
1953-01-29 131 Lauro Salas 132 52-23-8
Civic Auditorium, San Jose, California, United States W SD 10 10
"..an alternately fast and slow 10 rounds." (Associated Press)
1953-01-10 127 Kenny Davis 125½ 4-0-1
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States W TKO 8 10
~ time: 2:25 | referee: Mushy Callahan ~
1952-11-11 127 Reuben Smith 126 17-7-4
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Mushy Callahan 52-58 | judge: Tommy Hart 52½-57½ | judge: Lee Grossman 54-56 ~
Why was knocked down twice in the 6th round.
1952-08-05 126 Dave Gallardo 126 40-11-5
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L MD 12 12
~ referee: Joe Stone 66-66 | judge: Jack McDonald 65-67 | judge: Tommy Hart 64-68 ~
California State Featherweight Title Eliminator
"..one of the bloodiest fights in the Auditorium's history (..) money showered into the ring after the main event." (Associated Press)
1952-06-19 Gabriel Diaz 12-4-1
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico W DQ 8
1952-03-11 129½ Tommy Baker 129½ 16-28-4
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W RTD 9 10
~ referee: Abe Roth 53-46 ~
Baker did not come out for the 10th round.
1952-02-06 128¼ Corky Gonzales 128¼ 55-7-0
Pueblo, Colorado, United States L PTS 10 10
1952-01-15 127½ Javier Gutierrez 125 19-8-4
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Mushy Callahan 57-53 | judge: Tommy Hart 57-53 | judge: Reggie Gilmore 55½-54½ ~
1952-01-04 127¼ Lauro Salas 129 44-19-7
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States D PTS 10 10
~ referee: Frankie Van 55-55 | judge: Lee Grossman 55½-54½ | judge: Joe Stone 54-56 ~
1951-11-21 Conrado Castanon 10-4-3
Auditorio Municipal, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico W SD 10 10
1951-10-16 128 Baby LeRoy 129 20-8-3
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States D TD 3 10
~ time: 2:35 | referee: Mushy Callahan ~
Both boxers suffered cuts from an accidental clash of heads in the 3rd round.
1951-08-04 Luis Castillo 78-40-9
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico L PTS 10 10
1951-07-14 Panchito Uribe 12-7-0
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico W PTS 10 10
1951-06-30 Gabriel Diaz 9-1-0
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico L KO 5
1951-04-16 126½ Reuben Smith 124½ 16-5-4
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States W TKO 7 10
~ referee: Joe Stone ~
1951-03-05 129 Oscar Price 130 9-11-4
Sports Center, Tucson, Arizona, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Sonny Valdez 57-51 | judge: Art Pollard 56-53 | judge: Bern Bernstein 56-51 ~
Price was knocked down in the 6th round.
1951-02-20 127 Baby Azteca 123½ 0-1-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 1 6
Azteca suffered an injured shoulder and could not continue, according to the Los Angeles Times
1951-01-29 Ernesto Aguilar 19-19-10
Sports Center, Tucson, Arizona, United States W PTS ? 10
Exact manner of victory unknown, reported in the March 1, 1951 Tucson Daily Citizen
1950-10-06 127½ Alvaro Estrada 125½ 9-18-3
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States W PTS 6 6
1950-01-10 129 Felix Ramirez 133 26-11-8
Auditorium, Portland, Oregon, United States L UD 10 10
1949-10-25 127 Joey Lopes 131 7-1-1
Civic Auditorium, San Jose, California, United States L KO 9
1949-08-31 127¼ Joey Clemo 131 18-14-11
Valley Garden Arena, North Hollywood, California, United States W PTS 10 10
1949-07-19 Joey Lopes 6-1-0
San Jose, California, United States L PTS 8 8
1949-06-06 127¼ Lauro Salas 129 24-10-4
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States L KO 4 10
~ referee: Benny Whitman ~
Why was knocked down twice in the 4th round.
1949-02-28 126¼ Chuck Wilkerson 126¼ 15-11-1
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States W PTS 10 10
1949-02-08 128 Baby Nevarez 132 2-2-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 5 5
1949-01-18 126½ Roosevelt Bonner 127½ 17-17-7
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States D PTS 4 4
1948-08-09 126 Chuck Wilkerson 123¼ 13-5-1
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1948-07-06 126 Rolando Delgado 130 15-9-4
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 1 4
1948-03-23 126 George Mendoza 126½ 3-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 3 4
1948-03-09 127½ Richard Minjares 125 3-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 4 4
1948-02-13 126 Hank Okura 130 10-18-1
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United
---------------------------------------------
Bobby Why
birth date 1925-01-10
featherweight
residence Los Angeles, California, United States
birth place San Luis Obispo, CA, USA
birth name Robert William Garcia
won 24 (KO 10) + lost 15 (KO 7) + drawn 3 = 42
rounds boxed 289 KO% 23.81
1954-10-19 128¾ Tommy Collins 129½ 60-11-0
Arena, Boston, Massachusetts, United States L RTD 5 10
~ referee: Jimmy McCarron ~
Why was down in the 5th, and not out for the 6th round.
1954-05-22 126 Kenny Davis 126 7-3-2
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States W SD 10 10
~ referee: Abe Roth 60-50 | judge: Tommy Hart 54½-55½ | judge: Jack McDonald 56-54 ~
1953-11-17 134 Larry Cantiberos 132½ 5-3-0
Honolulu, Hawaii, United States W TKO 5
Why was declared the winner when an accidental butt by Cantiberos opened a cut over Why's eye
1953-11-02 134 Aladino Guzman 137 7-1-0
Civic Auditorium, Honolulu, Hawaii, United States W KO 1 10
~ time: 1:54 ~
1953-10-14 132 Charley Riley 132 69-26-1
Arena, Saint Louis, Missouri, United States L RTD 4 10
~ referee: Rocky Marciano ~
Why was unable to answer the bell for the 5th round.
1953-08-31 131 Tommy Manaois 131 22-11-4
Arena, South Gate, California, United States W PTS 10 10
1953-07-28 130¼ Cisco Andrade 133½ 13-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L RTD 9 10
~ referee: Reggie Gilmore ~
Why was knocked down at the end of the 9th round, and was carried to his corner. He did not come out for the 10th round.
1953-06-15 131 Larry Mujica 132½ 31-9-4
Miami, Florida, United States L TKO 7 10
1953-04-14 132 Johnny Butterworth 133½ 25-3-1
Memorial Auditorium, Sacramento, California, United States W TKO 3 10
1953-03-24 132½ Carlos Chavez 135 56-21-9
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Joe Stone 54-56 | judge: Jimmy Wallace 53-57 | judge: Lee Grossman 54½-55½ ~
1953-01-29 131 Lauro Salas 132 52-23-8
Civic Auditorium, San Jose, California, United States W SD 10 10
"..an alternately fast and slow 10 rounds." (Associated Press)
1953-01-10 127 Kenny Davis 125½ 4-0-1
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States W TKO 8 10
~ time: 2:25 | referee: Mushy Callahan ~
1952-11-11 127 Reuben Smith 126 17-7-4
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Mushy Callahan 52-58 | judge: Tommy Hart 52½-57½ | judge: Lee Grossman 54-56 ~
Why was knocked down twice in the 6th round.
1952-08-05 126 Dave Gallardo 126 40-11-5
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L MD 12 12
~ referee: Joe Stone 66-66 | judge: Jack McDonald 65-67 | judge: Tommy Hart 64-68 ~
California State Featherweight Title Eliminator
"..one of the bloodiest fights in the Auditorium's history (..) money showered into the ring after the main event." (Associated Press)
1952-06-19 Gabriel Diaz 12-4-1
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico W DQ 8
1952-03-11 129½ Tommy Baker 129½ 16-28-4
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W RTD 9 10
~ referee: Abe Roth 53-46 ~
Baker did not come out for the 10th round.
1952-02-06 128¼ Corky Gonzales 128¼ 55-7-0
Pueblo, Colorado, United States L PTS 10 10
1952-01-15 127½ Javier Gutierrez 125 19-8-4
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Mushy Callahan 57-53 | judge: Tommy Hart 57-53 | judge: Reggie Gilmore 55½-54½ ~
1952-01-04 127¼ Lauro Salas 129 44-19-7
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States D PTS 10 10
~ referee: Frankie Van 55-55 | judge: Lee Grossman 55½-54½ | judge: Joe Stone 54-56 ~
1951-11-21 Conrado Castanon 10-4-3
Auditorio Municipal, Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico W SD 10 10
1951-10-16 128 Baby LeRoy 129 20-8-3
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States D TD 3 10
~ time: 2:35 | referee: Mushy Callahan ~
Both boxers suffered cuts from an accidental clash of heads in the 3rd round.
1951-08-04 Luis Castillo 78-40-9
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico L PTS 10 10
1951-07-14 Panchito Uribe 12-7-0
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico W PTS 10 10
1951-06-30 Gabriel Diaz 9-1-0
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico L KO 5
1951-04-16 126½ Reuben Smith 124½ 16-5-4
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States W TKO 7 10
~ referee: Joe Stone ~
1951-03-05 129 Oscar Price 130 9-11-4
Sports Center, Tucson, Arizona, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Sonny Valdez 57-51 | judge: Art Pollard 56-53 | judge: Bern Bernstein 56-51 ~
Price was knocked down in the 6th round.
1951-02-20 127 Baby Azteca 123½ 0-1-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 1 6
Azteca suffered an injured shoulder and could not continue, according to the Los Angeles Times
1951-01-29 Ernesto Aguilar 19-19-10
Sports Center, Tucson, Arizona, United States W PTS ? 10
Exact manner of victory unknown, reported in the March 1, 1951 Tucson Daily Citizen
1950-10-06 127½ Alvaro Estrada 125½ 9-18-3
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States W PTS 6 6
1950-01-10 129 Felix Ramirez 133 26-11-8
Auditorium, Portland, Oregon, United States L UD 10 10
1949-10-25 127 Joey Lopes 131 7-1-1
Civic Auditorium, San Jose, California, United States L KO 9
1949-08-31 127¼ Joey Clemo 131 18-14-11
Valley Garden Arena, North Hollywood, California, United States W PTS 10 10
1949-07-19 Joey Lopes 6-1-0
San Jose, California, United States L PTS 8 8
1949-06-06 127¼ Lauro Salas 129 24-10-4
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States L KO 4 10
~ referee: Benny Whitman ~
Why was knocked down twice in the 4th round.
1949-02-28 126¼ Chuck Wilkerson 126¼ 15-11-1
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States W PTS 10 10
1949-02-08 128 Baby Nevarez 132 2-2-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 5 5
1949-01-18 126½ Roosevelt Bonner 127½ 17-17-7
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States D PTS 4 4
1948-08-09 126 Chuck Wilkerson 123¼ 13-5-1
Arena, Ocean Park, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1948-07-06 126 Rolando Delgado 130 15-9-4
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 1 4
1948-03-23 126 George Mendoza 126½ 3-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 3 4
1948-03-09 127½ Richard Minjares 125 3-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W TKO 4 4
1948-02-13 126 Hank Okura 130 10-18-1
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Earlier today we lost power for about an hour, Connie and I were here in the darkie.... 
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I sure remember Bobby Why (Garcia) well Rick....
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Frank, I was looking over his record. My friend Karl had seen Bobby Why fight Kenny Davis at the Legion.kikibalt wrote:I sure remember Bobby Why (Garcia) well Rick....
He also saw Why (Garcia) fight Lauro Salas in the same arena.
Judging by the dates, Hap Navarro was the Legion's promoter for those matches.
Frank, any memories of Bobby Why?
-Rick Farris
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Bobby Why & Tommy Umeda


Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Rick...I seen Why fight Davis, Salas among other, but I remember nothing special about him, he was just one of many fighters in that era that came to fight, no dancing around with those guys...Rick Farris wrote:Frank, I was looking over his record. My friend Karl had seen Bobby Why fight Kenny Davis at the Legion.kikibalt wrote:I sure remember Bobby Why (Garcia) well Rick....
He also saw Why (Garcia) fight Lauro Salas in the same arena.
Judging by the dates, Hap Navarro was the Legion's promoter for those matches.
Frank, any memories of Bobby Why?
-Rick Farris
-
Rick Farris
- Heavyweight

- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
kikibalt wrote:Bobby Why & Tommy Umeda
Frank . . . It reads that Bobby Why's 1952 fight with Davey Gallardo was one of the bloodiest in the history of the Olympic Auditorium.
Great history!
-Rick Farris