Old School V Old And New School-Gene Tunney

[ThatOne]

Gene Tunney V

Jack Johnson

Rocky Marciano

Joe Louis

Sonny Liston

Floyd Patterson

Muhammad Ali

Larry Holmes

George Foreman

Joe Frazer

Michael Spinks

Mike Tyson

Lennox Lewis

Evander Holyfield

Ken Norton


I have him going 10-4; not too shabby.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Only guys I would all-but-completely count him out against are Ali, Holmes & Lewis.

I will elaborate on the individual matchings later...

[Goodnight, Irene]

Tunney SD15 Johnson

Tunney UD15 Marciano

Louis TKO12 Tunney

Liston TKO6 Tunney

Tunney UD15 Patterson

Ali UD15 Tunney

Holmes UD15 Tunney

Foreman KO5 Tunney

Frazier MD15 Tunney

Tunney UD15 Spinks

Tyson TKO2 Tunney

Lewis UD15 Tunney

Tunney SD15 Holyfield

Tunney MD15 Norton

Tunney's superior movement & quicker hands net him decision wins over both Johnson & Marciano, though neither would be an easy night for him. Watch that fight with Louis closely, folkes --- it's the only opponent against whom Tunney gets sloppy, & loses his composure. Louis out-jabs him in the last few rounds before pulling off the stoppage. Tunney plainly ahead on the cards at the time. He was better (& tougher) than Conn, & no easier to catch cleanly.

The reach & jab of Liston (the jab would especially be problematic) nullified Tunney's superior boxing brain & style advantage in that one. Tunney would struggle with Patterson's speed, adjust, & let him get off first, before countering as the more precise puncher. He takes control of the back-end of the fight to out-point Patterson. Tunney against both Ali & Holmes would resemble Mayweather-Marquez --- a fiercely determined & intelligent fighter, up against a naturally bigger man whose style is just wretched for him. Like Marquez, Tunney was grittily tenacious, &, again like Marquez, would keep trying to get at his man until the bitter end.

Foreman is probably too strong up-close, & too swift in his opening assault --- the only man to level Tunney for the count. However, this is a real dark-horse fight...I could see myself betting money on Tunney, if the odds blew out as I'd expect them to. Tunney at 15 or 20-1? You bet I would, watching Foreman's (admittedly, post-prime) capitulation to Young.

Over fifteen, Frazier eeks out a decision with a strong finish, but, over twelve rounds, this is Tunney's fight. Let's see that ruffle a few feathers. Sooner or later, Tunney would've worked out Spinks. Tyson is just too fast & explosive. His chances are better than Foreman's, should he face Tunney repeatedly. Lewis tried for the KO a few times, came up short against the teak-tough, ever-resourceful Tunney, & contented himself to jab, lean, clinch, & wrestle his way to a decision over the smaller man. Fifteen rounds would not suit Lewis' lungs at all, but Tunney really can't do anything with him.

Over twelve rounds, it might've been different, but, over fifteen, Holyfield never proved his lungs at Heavyweight. He tired in some twelve-rounders. Tunney out-works him in the championship rounds, & it proves crucial in a very competitive bout. Tunney would work very hard for a decision over Norton --- but he'd get it. He wouldn't rush back for a rematch, though.

I have him going 6-8-0. Not great, but respectable.

[ThatOne]

I had him beating all but Ali, Foreman, Louis, and Johnson.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I had him beating all but Ali, Foreman, Louis, and Johnson.

Well, I have to say, I really cannot envision what he could do to beat Lewis...

[ThatOne]

I had him beating all but Ali, Foreman, Louis, and Johnson.

Well, I have to say, I really cannot envision what he could do to beat Lewis...

Tunney would be too smart to chase Lewis and Lewis would be too cautious to chase Tunney.

[Grimm]

I could see him beating Patterson and maybe Norton.

[dempseyfire]

Tunney was one of the greatest light heavyweights ever but I'd need more proof over the big boys before I started favoring him over ATG heavyweights. I'd only pick Tunney here over Spinks. Patterson is a maybe but who in his career did he beat like Floyd at his best? Dempsey in their first fight had been inactive and partying for 3 years and in their return nearly knocked Tunney out.

[yancey]

Tunney was one of the greatest light heavyweights ever but I'd need more proof over the big boys before I started favoring him over ATG heavyweights. I'd only pick Tunney here over Spinks. Patterson is a maybe but who in his career did he beat like Floyd at his best? Dempsey in their first fight had been inactive and partying for 3 years and in their return nearly knocked Tunney out.

Agreed.

Some of these fellows on this thread would be surprised what the "big boys" would do to Tunney.

[Collins2000]

Tunney was one of the greatest light heavyweights ever but I'd need more proof over the big boys before I started favoring him over ATG heavyweights. I'd only pick Tunney here over Spinks. Patterson is a maybe but who in his career did he beat like Floyd at his best? Dempsey in their first fight had been inactive and partying for 3 years and in their return nearly knocked Tunney out.

Agreed.

Some of these fellows on this thread would be surprised what the "big boys" would do to Tunney.

You seem to be confusing conjecture with fact, again.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Tunney was one of the greatest light heavyweights ever but I'd need more proof over the big boys before I started favoring him over ATG heavyweights. I'd only pick Tunney here over Spinks. Patterson is a maybe but who in his career did he beat like Floyd at his best? Dempsey in their first fight had been inactive and partying for 3 years and in their return nearly knocked Tunney out.

Tunney completely humiliated Dempsey in the rematch, sans one exceptional moment. That sh!t can happen in Boxing --- this is, "The Theater Of The Unexpected," after all, no? People look at that far too often & read too much into it.

Tunney didn't have many fights at Heavyweight. You either can use your imagination & envision him with an extra ten pounds (all which was required of Marciano, on top of the LHW limit) or you can talk about how he, "only had a few fights there."

It's not a stretch to see him as a Heavyweight. I think he frankly embarasses a few names on here, whether winning or losing --- only because so many would mistakenly expect him to fall over. Tunney is & always will be sorely under-rated by the masses, no matter how good some people understand him to be.