George Foreman and"Fightin Dirty"(1969-1977)

[Collins2000]

Here's a poem Ali wrote about Frazier.

There lives a great man named Joe
who was belittled by a loudmouth foe.
While his rival would taunt and tease
Joe silently bore the stings.
And then fought like gladiator in the ring.

[ThatOne]

And Ali used a lot of the lessons shared to him by Moore
in Ali's early days, when he under studied ole Archie.

I loved The Old Mongoose. He was such a colorful figure and a reader of Shakespeare to boot.

[ThatOne]

And Ali used a lot of the lessons shared to him by Moore
in Ali's early days, when he under studied ole Archie.

Archie sent a message via S.I. to Ali just before the Rumble in the Jungle.

Ali, George will half kill you. Why did you threaten him? I write this direct to you so that you can remember me as the kind old man who helped you cut your wisdom teeth. You added a few more tricks to the ones I showed you. You lifted the bolo punch from Kid Gavilan and converted the half-step "Watson Shuffle" into the widely advertised Ali Shuffle. With those meager tricks in your bag, you claim you did it all. Here is my poem to you:

Really, your poetry is nothing by rhyme/ and 15 rounds is a long time./Joseph Frazier couldn't even make two;/ Ken Norton was a victim of George's coup. /Foreman's left will make you dance Turkey in the Straw. /When his right connects with your lower mandible:/Goodby, jaw.

This time you are in real trouble, I must publicly warn you. After the fight, you can even hide out a few years in the jungle, slide into Louisville about midnight, and nobody would ever know. The reason I am writing this to you is that I don't want your blood on my hands.

You can't imagine what it was like to read that and watch the Ali-Foreman rivalry unfurl in real time. I can't imagine what it would have been like if there was an internet to discuss it.


Here's Archie after the fight:


Ali swayed so far back on the ropes that it was like he was sitting in an old convertible Cadillac. The '54 model," he added, being very accurate about such things. "Now, George tried to enter from the side doors. But they were shut. So George began to bang at them, hitting at Ali's arms that had the elbows protecting his hips, on up to the gloves protecting the lower mandible. On occasion George struck Ali some tremendous blows on the upper cranium, causing Ali no little discomfiture. But Ali weathered that, and he cunningly convinced George that he couldn't punch and other such nonsensical things, until George began to behave like he actually believed it, until this tremendous puncher lost his power from punching at that Cadillac's doors and turned from an atomic force into a firecracker. "In short," said the great ex-fighter, "as they say in the idiom of Brooklyn, he blew his cool."



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm



It's a great read.

[Robinson]

I have always liked Archie. He seemed like he was a nice
man. He always had such a warm face in his photos.

[Collins2000]

Never heard a bad word about him.

Even when Ali was supposed to be "feuding" with him, you could see he liked the old mongoose.

[granberry]

I have always liked Archie. He seemed like he was a nice
man. He always had such a warm face in his photos.

You never fought him.

He didn't score over 120 KO's by being 'nice.'

[Robinson]

I have always liked Archie. He seemed like he was a nice
man. He always had such a warm face in his photos.

You never fought him.

He didn't score over 120 KO's by being 'nice.'

Being a nice person does not make one any less a great
fighter.

But you are right mr Gran, I never did fight him, neither
did anyone here for that matter.

And he scored his KOs by being a whole lot more than
nice.

[Robinson]

In your dealings with Archie, was a he a good bloke
to get a long with Granberry ?

[Brutu]

How many of George Foreman's 37 fights going into the first Frazier fight were filmed or taped?

[Brutu]

G.F vrs the Toronto Five.
232 lbs vrs 1,028 lbs.
The Five were,
Alonzo Johnson
Jerry Judge
Terry Daniels
Boone Kirkman
Charley Polite.

When they were originally putting it together,
two of the Toronto 5 were supposed to be,
Mac Foster and Pedro Agosto.
Not sure why they had to pull out.

[Brutu]

Here is a link to the 35th professional boutof his career, George Foreman vrs Ted Gullick in 1972.
(notice one or two roundhouse right to the kidney's)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_R2ZBjyiRY

[Brutu]

George Foreman's
- "Anywhere Punch"

"Its a punch Foreman, "Aint aiming anywhere",
but wherever it lands it breaks something inside you......
a muscle,a bone,a finger,a shoulder,a rib.
"Its a punch that starts out being a hook,but ends up a slider".
"George is the first person that I have ever been in the ring with that I know of that can kill you".

Bossman Jones to Angleo Dundee at Deer Lake PN shortly after Jones defected from the Foreman camp as his sparring partner Summer of 1974.

source MY VIEW FROM THE CORNER by Angelo Dundee,page 173.


'

[Brutu]

Here is Foreman's 32nd professional fight against Luis Faustino Pires,October 1971.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klR8h3ZwL8w

[Brutu]

Here is a good example of George Foreman's rough housing,man-handling tactics in round one of this fight.
Foreman's 22 professional fight,vrs George Chuvalo in 1970.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2KRcH1N-xY

[Brutu]

George Foreman's
- "Anywhere Punch"

"Its a punch Foreman, "Aint aiming anywhere",
but wherever it lands it breaks something inside you......
a muscle,a bone,a finger,a shoulder,a rib.
"Its a punch that starts out being a hook,but ends up a slider".
"George is the first person that I have ever been in the ring with that I know of that can kill you".

Bossman Jones to Angleo Dundee at Deer Lake PN shortly after Jones defected from the Foreman camp as his sparring partner Summer of 1974.

source MY VIEW FROM THE CORNER by Angelo Dundee,page 173.


'

That punch sounds a lot like a Rocky Marciano punch from 20 years earlier.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Here is a good example of George Foreman's rough housing,man-handling tactics in round one of this fight.
Foreman's 22 professional fight,vrs George Chuvalo in 1970.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2KRcH1N-xY

Pretty harsh judgement, IMO. It's Boxing, as Marciano once said, not checkers.

[Brutu]

I was not judging Foreman harshly.
Actually I posted these fights to examine Foreman's fighting style and technique at that time of his career.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Fair play.

[yancey]

Here is a good example of George Foreman's rough housing,man-handling tactics in round one of this fight.
Foreman's 22 professional fight,vrs George Chuvalo in 1970.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2KRcH1N-xY

Any back of the head punches by GF in this one?

(don't have time to watch the GF "technique" DD )

[granberry]

George Foreman's
- "Anywhere Punch"

"Its a punch Foreman, "Aint aiming anywhere",
but wherever it lands it breaks something inside you......
a muscle,a bone,a finger,a shoulder,a rib.
"Its a punch that starts out being a hook,but ends up a slider".
"George is the first person that I have ever been in the ring with that I know of that can kill you".

Bossman Jones to Angleo Dundee at Deer Lake PN shortly after Jones defected from the Foreman camp as his sparring partner Summer of 1974.

source MY VIEW FROM THE CORNER by Angelo Dundee,page 173.


'

Bossman Jones was a lightheavyweight.

[Goodnight, Irene]

^^^& the sky is blue.

[Brutu]

So was Foneda Cox a LH,he had been Liston's main sparring partner up till 1965.

[Brutu]

Shoving is of course illegal in boxing,but often overlooked in important fights.
Anyway here is Foreman's opinion about it back in the day.
(from Sports Illustrated December-24-1973)

Foreman denies that he does any shoving except in self-defense.

"I'll never push a man when he's fighting.
But I'm not about to let anybody get in on me and start butting,because it's butting
with the head where 90% of a fighters cuts come from.
When they come in at me I know what they want-thats a good way to cause
damage without throwing any punches.And in that fight where I won the title I kept saying
"Get off of me,Joe Frazier".
He was the one that started it".

[Goodnight, Irene]

I can see where Foreman is coming from. Frazier did grind with his head. Conducive to his style. Someone once quipped, earlier in his career, that he was a young man who, "could use a third glove, placed over his skull."

However, Foreman did blatantly shove in a few other fights, when it was patently unnecessary. When that's the exception in your fights, however, it means you're not a dirty fighter. Guys like Holyfield, Casamayor, Hopkins --- they're dirty. Foreman wasn't. Ali held behind the head, & pulled downward on the neck in many fights prior to his exile, & just about every damn fight he had, post-1972 --- if you sat down & bothered to count, he must've done it a hundred times in the fight with Foreman himself. I don't know if there's a high enough number to keep track of the amount of times he did it to Frazier.

No one ever calls Ali a dirty fighter.

[Ezzard]

I can see where Foreman is coming from. Frazier did grind with his head. Conducive to his style. Someone once quipped, earlier in his career, that he was a young man who, "could use a third glove, placed over his skull."

However, Foreman did blatantly shove in a few other fights, when it was patently unnecessary. When that's the exception in your fights, however, it means you're not a dirty fighter. Guys like Holyfield, Casamayor, Hopkins --- they're dirty. Foreman wasn't. Ali held behind the head, & pulled downward on the neck in many fights prior to his exile, & just about every damn fight he had, post-1972 --- if you sat down & bothered to count, he must've done it a hundred times in the fight with Foreman himself. I don't know if there's a high enough number to keep track of the amount of times he did it to Frazier.

No one ever calls Ali a dirty fighter.

Ali had his own dirty tricks... Most of the greats did (but not all). I tend to think that boxers (as opposed to sluggers and swarmers) get called less on their fouls by refs. Just a eprsonal observation.