Middleweight League Competition...

[Mr E]

Oh Please. What else can you say? Their records speaks for themselves

Yes they do.

Bennie's was spotty

Look at the names on that list, the frequency of his fights, his success in rematches, and, better yet, watch a couple films. Bennie's record gets more impressive the more one examines it.

Hamsho's was free of those pesky L's

What do you mean by "pesky"? Hamsho was a solid enough contender whose career trajectory showed ability but not greatness. If I recall, he was the guy who retired Boogaloo Watts, and he got some other good wins, including a gift in the Curtis Parker fight. What in his record dazzles you?

and yet you still BRAG about how great Briscoe was! Hilarious! Tell us some more and maybe it'll start to sink in

I don't think you know what the word "brag" means. Briscoe a "great"? I didn't say that and I'm not sure I would. Close, have to think it over. Certainly, he was far superior to Mustafa Hamsho. Not even close.

Benvenuti was lucky he didnt have Hagler or hamsho to contend with or someone like Sibbo

I would favor Hagler to beat Benvenutti certainly. But he'd beat Hamsho or "Sibbo," no question about it.

and Valdez lost to Corro who was beaten by Vito

It's obvious, both because you haven't denied it and also because of the things you write that you haven't seen any of these fights. Majority of the people watching Valdez and Briscoe fight for Monzon's vacated title noticed that they had both slipped by then. I think that last Monzon bout took all the motivation out of Valdez, he wasn't the same later. Take a look at the fight and tell me if you can disagree with a straight face.

Still, you have to admit that Corro was a damn good fighter whose slick, defensive style was precisely the match-up to give a rough and tumble slugger like Valdez trouble. Corro went on to beat Ronnie Harris too and Vito, when he didn't cut, was a real quality fighter himself. But, whereas Corro's style gave Valdez trouble, Antoufermo's crowding, swarming style gave Corro trouble-- styles make fights. Oh, and then Vito's style ate Hagler up in the last 5 rounds of that fight as Hagler did everything he could to fold up and throw away the decision he seemed to have earned in the first 10 rounds. Nothing "robbery" in that draw at all. If having trouble with Vito Antoufermo means a fighter is 2nd rate, then Marvin Hagler has something to answer for too.

Results speak more loudly than words

Of course they do.

Mr. E you dont know who I am do you?

I'll give you a hint:

We used to spar over this very subject on Cyberboxing until that fathead moderator kicked me off. The little bitch!

This is just like old times :P

Ha. I'm sorry, I've debated Monzon v. Hagler for years with a lot of guys, but I don't recall doing one on CBZ. I assume we went at it hammer & tong? Some debates just cannot be resolved, I guess. At least we're both consistent.

[dr_devious]

Its also about when people lose, not just that they lose. Valdez lost to Corro near the back end of his career, doesnt mean that Vito is better than Valdez because he went on to beat Corro. And Sibson wouldnt have got near a prime Benvenuti, different leagues

it would be pretty hard to judge Rodrigo at the end of his career as he just picked up another title and standing at the top of the middleweight ranks

He just couldnt beat Corro and figured what's the use of continuing when you can't be champ. Between 1976 and 1980 when he retired, the only ones he lost to were Monzon twice and Corro twice

Benvenuti? Since he couldnt handle an aged Dick Tiger I find it hard to believe Sibbo wouldnt make short work of him. Nino couldnt cut it as a midlleweight and lost quite often against various opponents, several of whom I'd never heard of. Check the record book

Are you seriously comparing Tony Sibson with even an ageing Dick Tiger???????????????????

[Elton John]

Ha. I'm sorry, I've debated Monzon v. Hagler for years with a lot of guys, but I don't recall doing one on CBZ. I assume we went at it hammer & tong? Some debates just cannot be resolved, I guess. At least we're both consistent.

Alright, I'll give you another hint. My name was Ultimo, the guy with the bad English

When you see Gordoom, give him an elbow to the face for me will you

[Elton John]

Are you seriously comparing Tony Sibson with even an ageing Dick Tiger???????????????????

That's funny

Are you seriously comparing an aging Dick Tiger to Sibbo?

No wonder they kicked you off Cyberboxingzone DD

[BoxBuzz]

Its also about when people lose, not just that they lose. Valdez lost to Corro near the back end of his career, doesnt mean that Vito is better than Valdez because he went on to beat Corro. And Sibson wouldnt have got near a prime Benvenuti, different leagues

it would be pretty hard to judge Rodrigo at the end of his career as he just picked up another title and standing at the top of the middleweight ranks

He just couldnt beat Corro and figured what's the use of continuing when you can't be champ. Between 1976 and 1980 when he retired, the only ones he lost to were Monzon twice and Corro twice

Benvenuti? Since he couldnt handle an aged Dick Tiger I find it hard to believe Sibbo wouldnt make short work of him. Nino couldnt cut it as a midlleweight and lost quite often against various opponents, several of whom I'd never heard of. Check the record book

You need to stop 'checking the record book' and start watching some films. I haven't seen one post from you where you discuss how a fighter actually looked in an actual fight. The 'he won 5 fights in that 2 year period' stuff is okay to provide some context to the analysis but it needs to be anchored something more substantive.

Did Nino Benvenutti look sharp and fit in the early stages of the first Mozon fight to you, yes or no? If no, when did he look better to you?

Did Valdes look like he was 100% in the Corro fight to you, yes or no? Did he look remotely as quick and energetic as he did against Monzon, yes or no?

My guess is you have no idea because you haven't seen any of these fights.

I tend to agree, watching these fighters is the better way to evaluate. Records are interesting but honestly don't tell us much about how two fighters might fare against one another. (Providing the general classification of quality of each fighter is roughly equal)

[Mr E]

Ha. I'm sorry, I've debated Monzon v. Hagler for years with a lot of guys, but I don't recall doing one on CBZ. I assume we went at it hammer & tong? Some debates just cannot be resolved, I guess. At least we're both consistent.

Alright, I'll give you another hint. My name was Ultimo, the guy with the bad English

When you see Gordoom, give him an elbow to the face for me will you

He's a good guy. I don't know why he removed you from CBZ but if it was just a matter of you blowing your stack and him not approving, you might consider sending him a note saying 'my bad, it won't happen again.' I wouldn't be surprised if you're back posting in no time.