A little bit of Balance.

[stujones]

Whilst I am not surprised, given the figures Haye vs Valuev had, that Haye vs Ruiz is on PPV..... However, cannot say I am expecting a particularly expecting a mouthwatering undercard - this main event is a lot less appealing than Haye vs Valuev - well, firstly Ruiz lost to the big man twice, secondly he's 38 and thirdly he didn't look great last time out. He is the equivalent of Paolo Vidoz at world level - when is the last time he won a world title fight, but yet he gets shot after shot. Fourthy he isn't 7 foot and never been hurt.

Khan vs Salita got called a "joke" with a terrible undercard - it wasn't great, but Mitchell vs Prescott appealed to me.... I only hope this non allegedly promoted PPV, if it is a terrible undercard, will get similar criticisms.

[Asterix]

Ruiz is a heck of a lot better than Salita, but I doubt there'll be a fight anywhere near the quality and intrigue of Mitchell vs Prescott. So I think I'm basically saying I agree with you, Stu.

The undercard appears to be a blank canvas at this point: http://boxrec.com/show_display.php?show_id=595181

[Twinkle Toes]

It's a crap match, I for one won't be tuning in.

I hope we see Haye in more meaningful stuff once this rubbish is out of the way - It'll be a good earner for Haye though

[15829]

groves might be fighting adamu for the commonwealth

[Adamj1987]

groves might be fighting adamu for the commonwealth

hope so

[Datsue]

Uhhhmmm, disagree most vehemently. Ruiz went the distance with Valuev twice (majority & a split I believe) & no-one's beaten him clearly who wasn't on roids for about a decade. Salita -- despite what a few blind people were saying -- was utter utter shite, had never fought anyone wtih half a pulse & I said so from the moment the fight was announced. This is Haye's fourth fight at heavyweight -- how's he supposed to "gain the experience" a lot of you whining ninnies are saying he needs at heavy if you bitch about him fighting his number one contender?

When we say "A bit of balance" we should not aim to cover everything in shite, just 'cos some other things are shite-covered.

Plus, your topic title makes me think of the Sainsbury's rip-off of Special K:

[Asterix]

As far as I understand it Haye has to take this one as Ruiz stepped aside for the Valuev tilt. They went over this at the presser the other day. Wouldn't look good if he ditched the belt would it?

Someone told me a rumour RE undercard fight so I put it to them and it was denied. Check out tomorrow's BN to find out who the rumoured fighter was

That's not what Stu's post was about. He was talking about the PPV aspect and what the undercard would be like. At least, that's my take.

[Asterix]

5 lines on Ruiz's credentials, or lack of, and two lines on PPV, made me assume that Stu was getting at Ruiz.

Call me a mad bastard novelty thinker but why not wait until some undercard fights are announced and then have a pop? Pre-emptive whines are pushing it even by Boxrec standards!

Fair enough. It was really the "Wouldn't look good if he ditched the belt would it?" comment that made me reply. No-one's asking him to vacate.

I agree about waiting for the undercard fights to be announced first. Golden Boy have the capability to put on a very good undercard if they wish.

[Bard of Boxrec]

This is a competitive fight. If Ruiz can use all the smarts he has picked up over the years, tuck up, do his usual roughhousing, not get hit clean and take Haye into the later rounds, he is capable of bullying Haye around and stopping him mid to late.

On the night though I'm hoping Haye can nail him with a clean one - and one thing about Haye is he usually does land. Not sure Ruiz, who is getting on, will like taking too many big shots off Haye and I think Haye is also capable of dispatching him rather quickly.

[stujones]

No it was about the PPV angle - the Valuev vs Haye undercard was piss poor (not blaming Hayemaker here) - but that was a more intriguing fight than this one.

My take was this needs a good undercard to add the appeal - lets be fair, the condemning of Khan vs Salita, who despite being poor (not disputing that) was Khan's mandatory, as a PPV was on here even before it was confirmed it was on PPV. So its not by "boxrec standards" its been done many times before.

I will probably get the PPV - cause I want to watch as much boxing as possible - but I just hope the undercard can deliver - for a headliner its not great.

[stujones]

5 lines on Ruiz's credentials, or lack of, and two lines on PPV, made me assume that Stu was getting at Ruiz.

Call me a mad bastard novelty thinker but why not wait until some undercard fights are announced and then have a pop? Pre-emptive whines are pushing it even by Boxrec standards!

Fair enough. It was really the "Wouldn't look good if he ditched the belt would it?" comment that made me reply. No-one's asking him to vacate.

I agree about waiting for the undercard fights to be announced first. Golden Boy have the capability to put on a very good undercard if they wish.

Not directly but pulling Ruiz apart and asking the why of it is answered by the belt situation. He needs to take this fight. It has to be televise and it is PPV because we are a bunch of mugs who would pay for anything to get a bit of boxing on our screens.

The undercard could feature paraplegics wrestling in mud and we'd still buy so any decent fights on there are a bonus, rather than an obligation. Tickets will sell for the main as most in-arena fans will show for the main event alone as it is an event. Biggest UK heavyweight fight on these shores since Lewis-Botha. It is an event and will packaged and sold as one. Haye-Valuev did huge figures without much of an undercard so anything we get here is a bonus.

I wasn't trying to argue against Haye fighting Ruiz and I knew the reasons why the fight was taking place - just for the most part when Warren has had a poor main event in terms of interest or prestige - he's created a decent undercard..... of course the exeption being Khan vs Fagan which was pretty terrible.

Prescott vs Khan was a criticised main event - but at least it had Cook vs Arthur a good, intriguing European level fight (being called a world title) and the Salita fight had Mitchell vs Prescott.

Valuev was a large (no pun) part of why the Haye fight did well.... David vs Gollaith as it was built up as. I think this fight is going to need an undercard or Haye will lose some of that momentum - especially as the actual fight itself vs Valuev wasn't a great specticle.

I aint saying Ruiz vs Haye is a "unacceptable" fight, the comparisons I made with Salita were ENTIRELY based on them both being PPV's..... both I feel are unacceptable as PPV's with a terrible undercard. You mentioned Botha vs Lewis - yep a forgone conclusion before the ink had dried off the tickets - one of the worst PPV's mainevents since Sky Box Office launched (I did say ONE - there's been some other stinkers)..... I've never seen a PPV, before or since, not marketed as a "competitive fight" but as a celebration "come and pay to see Lewis get a KO win" was pretty much the whole build up..... however, even that had a decent build up.

Its way too early for me (or anyone) to be having a go at the card....... as its not been announced - all I'm saying is the last few Haye fights haven't had great cards and I think this one needs one not to get criticised as a PPV!.

[whicker]

I think the reality is that the vast majority of the PPViewing public couldn't really care much whats on the undercard.

For fans, of course, it will make a difference- but dedicated fans of the sport are always going to be a minority.

[stujones]

It will be interesting to see how it does in terms of PPV revenue..... I think Sky/Hayemaker are under estimating the "Golliath" effect of the last fight.... with the added value that "you don't get decisions in Germany only way Haye can win is by KO" labelling of the fight.

ALOT of people were expecting a war and either going to see the chinny loudmouth KO'd or the "freakshow" KO'd.

Ruiz doesn't have that appeal, its in the UK so no "KO or lose" label here. Plus the Valuev vs Haye fight was an absolute stinker - I wonder how many who bought it, turned over. John Ruiz is quite a hard sell.

[whiskey]

Ruiz is a better fighter than Barrett and I'd dare say he's better than Valuev too.

Valeuv was a freak of nature, but otherwise he was nowt. Without his sheer size he wouldn't have been the 'attraction' that he was.

That said, it will be a boring fight unless Haye can light him up.

[JamesH]

I think the reality is that the vast majority of the PPViewing public couldn't really care much whats on the undercard.

For fans, of course, it will make a difference- but dedicated fans of the sport are always going to be a minority.

Unfortunate but true. I remember getting a call after Khan-Salita.....
"£15 QUID FOR THAT. ITS A F-ING JOKE! NEVER AGAIN...."
"Did you catch Mitchells fight?", I countered.
"WHO?" came the response.

[stujones]

Yes, I can see what everyone saying - just I aint convinced Haye has the star power YET to headline a PPV against an not imaginative opponent.

Gomez you've kind of undeliberately hit the nail when you talk about the sheer size making Valuev an attraction, being in Germany was also an "attraction" - as I said Sky did use that as an angle to make the fight sound entertaining - Haye must go looking for him. Valuev beat Ruiz fair, square and clear last time - Ruiz has kept himself in good shape but is in decline now.

James H - it is sad but true and thats why Khan PPV's have bombed - but does Haye have the ENOUGH star quality, at this stage of his career to hold a PPV in a main even that lacks the intrigue of the last fight

[RLewis]

Uhhhmmm, disagree most vehemently. Ruiz went the distance with Valuev twice (majority & a split I believe) & no-one's beaten him clearly who wasn't on roids for about a decade.

Just to make it clear, because Boxrec still has it listed wrongly, that the second Valuev-Ruiz fight was a unanimous decision.
In a situation similar to Brodie-Chi I, it was announced in the ring as a split decision, but the WBA supervisor announced at the post-fight press conference that the scores had been added up wrongly.
It was the Japanese judge who told the supervisor that he had scored the fight for Valuev. Ruiz's lawyer jumped on that claiming it was all a set-up because the judge shouldn't have known his running total. That was the basis for his legal challenge and that was why he was made mandatory contender again.
But it was a unanimous decision. I had Valuev winning by about 4 rounds.

[Datsue]

Uhhhmmm, disagree most vehemently. Ruiz went the distance with Valuev twice (majority & a split I believe) & no-one's beaten him clearly who wasn't on roids for about a decade.

Just to make it clear, because Boxrec still has it listed wrongly, that the second Valuev-Ruiz fight was a unanimous decision.
In a situation similar to Brodie-Chi I, it was announced in the ring as a split decision, but the WBA supervisor announced at the post-fight press conference that the scores had been added up wrongly.
It was the Japanese judge who told the supervisor that he had scored the fight for Valuev. Ruiz's lawyer jumped on that claiming it was all a set-up because the judge shouldn't have known his running total. That was the basis for his legal challenge and that was why he was made mandatory contender again.
But it was a unanimous decision. I had Valuev winning by about 4 rounds.

Thank you for the info! Just out of interest, Mr Lewis, may I ask your score for Haye-Valuev?

[JamesH]

James H - it is sad but true and thats why Khan PPV's have bombed - but does Haye have the ENOUGH star quality, at this stage of his career to hold a PPV in a main even that lacks the intrigue of the last fight

I would say it will do ok... Of course it wasn't that long ago a drastic rethink saw tickets to the Monte Barrett fight go two for one after apparently not shifting that quickly so there is definately a reasonable chance of disappointing numbers. On the other hand Haye has managed to capture the attention of the public, aided by the genius of the David and Goliath marketing strategy for the valuev fight and numerous appearances on just about every popular television show you can think of. It will have raised interest and he's a charasmatic guy whose popularity has rocketed since becoming the champ.

I'm looking forward to the fight, a massive amount more than I would be for the any recent fight containing the klitschko brothers or most other heavyweights. I bought into to the whole journey thing for Haye a long time ago and I think it will be seen as a fight that leads to a fight, like Castillo Hatton, and generate interest on that basis alone. Fighters a lot worse than Ruiz have contested in the headline of domestic ppvs and there is the 'sending out a statement' angle. Plus Joe Public loves the heavyweight division above all others.

Who knows? For me though, the figures won't be breaking records but I can see them a LOT higher than some of Khans recent ppv's.

[RLewis]

Uhhhmmm, disagree most vehemently. Ruiz went the distance with Valuev twice (majority & a split I believe) & no-one's beaten him clearly who wasn't on roids for about a decade.

Just to make it clear, because Boxrec still has it listed wrongly, that the second Valuev-Ruiz fight was a unanimous decision.
In a situation similar to Brodie-Chi I, it was announced in the ring as a split decision, but the WBA supervisor announced at the post-fight press conference that the scores had been added up wrongly.
It was the Japanese judge who told the supervisor that he had scored the fight for Valuev. Ruiz's lawyer jumped on that claiming it was all a set-up because the judge shouldn't have known his running total. That was the basis for his legal challenge and that was why he was made mandatory contender again.
But it was a unanimous decision. I had Valuev winning by about 4 rounds.

Thank you for the info! Just out of interest, Mr Lewis, may I ask your score for Haye-Valuev?

I had Haye 2 up

[ALI]

I dont see this as the mis-match that so many seem to. Sure, i make Haye a strong favourite, but its not cut and dried. It all depends on Haye's approach IMO, and i have a feeling he may make this harder than it needs to be. If he was to fight off the back foot, circle the ring and and keep it at range, picking his shots and conserving his energy, it would likely be a comfortable nights work for him. But somehow i just dont see him doing that.

The first few rounds will be very interesting, Haye's tactics will become clear, and Ruiz's chance of winning also. If Ruiz can stay with Haye during the first few rounds, then it could become very interesting.