British Top 30 P4P February 2010

[Deno1986]

I think I had Maludrottu-Munroe scored as 114-114 but I wasn't surprised that Munroe won it and I wouldn't have been surprised if Maludrottu won it, so many close rounds.

[JDC]

Far too low. Ola has done much better than Nicky Cook for example at World level. Having Ola anywhere outside the top 10 is an insult to him.

Really can't understand why you would have him so low

I don't think that he deserves a top 10 place. His win over Maccarinelli doesn't look as impressive now as it did at the time, and he lost his last fight against Huck.

I probably should have entered him higher last month, but I think a placing of about No.15 would have been more appropriate than a top 10 place.

How can you have British champions ranked higher than someone who just fought for a world title?

Lockett and Jennings fought for World titles, and they shouldn't have been ranked above a lot of British champions based on their performances. Afolabi did better against Huck, but Huck isn't as good as Pavlik or Cotto.

Not only that he knocked down the person who had just vacated the European Title. If had been a bit more ruthless, instead of doing his usual showboating, he would have had a good chance at a KO.

He lost on a close points decision.

He knocked Huck down?

Be consistant! You say that this list is based on ability and achievement yet you slot Ola Afolabi inbetween Martin Lyndsay and John Simpson. He has more ability than 70% of the listed fighters and has achieved more than all but the top 4(Woods and Witter have achieved nothing of late and 1 of then has retired anyway)

It is difficult for me to judge his ability when I have seen hardly any of his fights.

What achievements of Afolabi's are you talking about? His win over Maccarinelli for the WBO interim title and a loss to Huck for the full WBO title?

Since I started doing these rankings he has only fought four times, with his best win being over Maccarinelli, and his best opponent being Huck, to whom he lost. He is a good fighter who I should have put a few places higher, but I hardly think his current ranking is offensive.

Thanks for your full and just response

His win over highly touted Banks is more impressive than most above him imo.

He knocked Huck down in 1 of the middle rounds. He's a very entertining fighter, but his plan always seems like he's going for the knock-out.

He's basing himself over here now, so I'd expect you'll get a chance to see him in action soon.

I hope he gets a shot against Norton and picks up the Commonwealth. Getting himself in team Hatton in the process would do wonders for him. Hattan has said that Norton could be headlining a show soon, lets hope its against Ola.

Time for Hatton to cash in on Norton and bring in Afolabi I think.

Other than Munroe, who is only slightly too high I think your list is fine. Nicely done

[Horse]

Again good list Horse

Thanks, Alex.

I would have Mitchell, Cleverly and Murray higher than Cook also Booth higher and Simpson higher as well

Mitchell and Cleverly will probably overtake Cook this month. When Murray fights again he will probably overtake Cook as well.

Booth fights this month, if he wins then I plan to move him up quite a few places to make up for his current low position.

I think Simpson's current position is okay.

[Horse]

Thanks for putting the time and effort into the listv .

Froch should be number one. He has achieved more than Haye.

Haye was the undisputed Cruiserweight champion holding the WBC, WBA and WBO titles. He is now the WBA champion at Heavyweight, making him a two weight champion. Froch won the WBC Super Middleweight title and defended it against Taylor and Dirrell.

I think that Haye has a good argument to be considered the one who has achieved more.

Ricky Hatton should be lower as he got destroyed in his last fight almost a year ago and is a fat mess now.
I'd have Khan 3rd.

Hatton is considered to be a consensus top 30 P4P fighter. I don't think that Khan is currently considered to be at that level by very many people. So, I think that Hatton should be above Khan at the moment, if Khan beats Marquez then I think that changes.

Rendall Munroe, should be lower because he did not have the ability to compete at world level.

Munroe hasn't fought at World level yet, so I don't see why he should be written off.

McCloskey should a few places higher he has shown himself to be a very formidable boxer despite his sub par last fight.

McCloskey seems to be a very talented fighter, but his opposition since 2008 (Harrison and Rasilla) has not been very good. As European champion he will probably be fighting good opposition soon, so I will be able to raise him up the rankings.

How is Darren Barker 18 and Andy Lee dropped off the list? Lees last fight was against Affif Belcgeham (spelling?), who was a top 25 boxer on boxrec at the time. Correct me if I am wrong but has Darren Barker fought a top 50 boxer even yet?

Andy Lee would most likely have entered the rankings in April 2008 if he had beaten Vera, but he lost. If Lee had entered the list back then he would probably be higher in the rankings than Barker is now. Barker hasn't lost yet like Lee has, so he has that advantage over Lee.

I'd also have Jason Booth higher, I think he would give Munroe a good run for his money.

I think Booth's current ranking is too low as well. If he wins this month then that can be rectified.

Not a bad list all in all. I find the Barker placement/Lee omission baffling though.

When Lee has another decent win he will probably re-enter the list.

[Horse]

Clinton Woods take him off. Murray should be ahead of Cook, Also Magee should be ahead of Cleverly and Mitchell.

Woods has fought within the last 6 months, if he doesn't announce a comeback within the next few months then he will be taken off.

Murray will overtake Cook after his next decent win. Magee was inactive for the whole of 2009 and I was not sure how much a win over Larsen was worth, so I decided against raising Magee any higher.

[alexpaterson]

Again good list Horse

Thanks, Alex.

I would have Mitchell, Cleverly and Murray higher than Cook also Booth higher and Simpson higher as well

Mitchell and Cleverly will probably overtake Cook this month. When Murray fights again he will probably overtake Cook as well.

Booth fights this month, if he wins then I plan to move him up quite a few places to make up for his current low position.

I think Simpson's current position is okay.

OK thanks for the explanation

[Horse]

Hatton is still no1 for me based on what he's achieved to date.

Hatton has not won a fight in over a year though, and hasn't won a 'big four' World title fight in over 3 years. I think the chances of Hatton being a 'spent force' at World level are too high for me to still have him as the No.1.

If he comes back and wins against a top class opponent, like the winner of Alexander vs Urango, then he will show that he is still a top P4P fighter and he might regain the No.1 spot.

With Froch and Haye tied for second place.

Froch has had much sterner, genuine opponents than Haye has, but then again Haye has collected titles in 2 divisions now.

I also think they are at about the same P4P level.

[Horse]

Woods is retired.

He is retired, but he is not inactive as he has fought within the last 6 months.

Mitchell should be much higher after the Prescott win. Certainly above Murray.

Mitchell's win against Prescott was good, but Prescott is nothing special. Mitchell's recent level of oppositon was very weak leading up to the Prescott fight, so his overall opposition level over the last 18 months or so is below that of Murray, in my opinion.

If Mitchell beats Mendoza this month then he will probably go above Murray.

[Horse]

how is kel brook so low ?

Kell Brook's only opponents in 2009 were Stuart Elwell (January) and Michael Lomax (July). I don't think that his current position is too low considering his relatively low level of opposition over the last 12 months or so.

If Brook beats Bienias in March then he will climb a few places.

[adamburke83]

Id have Ashley Sexton there instead of Jamie McDonnell,
And i taught Ricky Burns might have entered it.....

[Horse]

Froch HAS to be ranked the best P4P in the country at the moment. He has consistantly performed at THE HIGHEST level. You're only putting David Haye at the top because of the prsetige of being World Heavyweight Champion. That's one real fight at heavyweight. You can't count the Barratt as a serious challenge. Froch 1st!

I didn't think that Froch's last win against Dirrell was a good enough win to move him up to the No.1 spot. If Froch beats Kessler in April then he will probably move to No.1.

[Horse]

I felt he lost that eliminator, and I remember you mentioning before that Munroe's high place was due to him operating at European level for so long while others were operating at domestic. The truth is however, outside of Maludrottu and Martinez, Munroe has been facing guys that are below domestic level. The likes of Nettey, Trotta, Bouaita and Matirosyan are all inferior to Jason Booth and Matthew Marsh imo.
Rocky Dean is probably better than the first two and even money with the 2nd two.

So the fact he's made 5 defenses, mainly below domestic level isn't a great indication of anything.
Yes the wins over Martinez and Maludrottu are good. But I felt Maludrottu beat him, and I had him losing to Martinez 2nd time around 77-75 after 8, until the Spaniard gassed and Munroe won all of the rest of the rounds, that's not Munroe's fault of course but it shows a real weakness in his ability.

If Munroe had defended his European title against Dean instead of one of his other European opponents then he would probably be in the same position.

Some of Munroe's European title opponents have not been great, but they have been okay. Beating a lower level domestic fighter does count as a positive thing. How many British/Irish fighters regularly fight opponents that are better than lower domestic level? That is the sort of level of opponent a British/Commonwealth champion will defend against as a voluntary. The ability to keep beating that level of opponent and not slip up should not be discounted.

If he had only beaten that sort of opposition as European champion then he obviously would not be as high as he is. His win againt Maludrottu and two wins against Martinez alone are enough to put him at No.5 (or around that sort of position) in the rankings, his other wins are a bonus.

fighters I'd see deserving of a higher ranking that are lower(in your order), Macklin, Woods(although he shouldn't be there at all), Witter, Dunne, Rhodes, Cook, Murray, Cleverly, Moore, Brook and Afolabi.

If he was to beat Terrazas, and none of the above fighters achieved anything of note then you could make a case for his position

You criticize Munroe's level of opposition and then suggest Brook should be higher?

I think that Witter and Woods's recent lack of quality wins should allow top level European fighters like Munroe to overtake them. Dunne, Cook, Moore and Afolabi all lost their last fights, so I don't think that they should be too high up in the rankings.

Murray, Cleverly and Brook have not yet stepped up to European level, so I don't think they should be higher than Munroe.

Macklin and Rhodes are both European champions who have been on good form, so they both have a good case to be higher than Munroe, but I think Munroe's last win against Maludrottu puts him a step ahead of them both for now.

[Horse]

I think I had Maludrottu-Munroe scored as 114-114 but I wasn't surprised that Munroe won it and I wouldn't have been surprised if Maludrottu won it, so many close rounds.

I didn't score it, but it was a close one.

[moorser]

could you please change the title of the thread to british and irish p4p list

thank you

[Horse]

Thanks for your full and just response

You are welcome.

His win over highly touted Banks is more impressive than most above him imo.

Do you mean Fields? Because I can't see a fighter named Banks on his record.

He knocked Huck down in 1 of the middle rounds. He's a very entertining fighter, but his plan always seems like he's going for the knock-out.

Unfortunately, I didn't see the fight. I couldn't find a stream and the Khan PPV was on. I'll try to watch it on YouTube at some point.

He's basing himself over here now, so I'd expect you'll get a chance to see him in action soon.

I hope he gets a shot against Norton and picks up the Commonwealth. Getting himself in team Hatton in the process would do wonders for him. Hattan has said that Norton could be headlining a show soon, lets hope its against Ola.

Time for Hatton to cash in on Norton and bring in Afolabi I think.

Afolabi vs Norton would be good. If Afolabi bases himself over here then it will make ranking him easier.

Other than Munroe, who is only slightly too high I think your list is fine. Nicely done

Thanks.

[Horse]

OK thanks for the explanation

[alexpaterson]

I think I had Maludrottu-Munroe scored as 114-114 but I wasn't surprised that Munroe won it and I wouldn't have been surprised if Maludrottu won it, so many close rounds.

I had it the same it was so close, Munroe battled hard though.

[ImElvis666]

Thanks for putting the time and effort into the listv .

Froch should be number one. He has achieved more than Haye.

Haye was the undisputed Cruiserweight champion holding the WBC, WBA and WBO titles. He is now the WBA champion at Heavyweight, making him a two weight champion. Froch won the WBC Super Middleweight title and defended it against Taylor and Dirrell.

I think that Haye has a good argument to be considered the one who has achieved more.

Ricky Hatton should be lower as he got destroyed in his last fight almost a year ago and is a fat mess now.
I'd have Khan 3rd.

Hatton is considered to be a consensus top 30 P4P fighter. I don't think that Khan is currently considered to be at that level by very many people. So, I think that Hatton should be above Khan at the moment, if Khan beats Marquez then I think that changes.

Rendall Munroe, should be lower because he did not have the ability to compete at world level.

Munroe hasn't fought at World level yet, so I don't see why he should be written off.

McCloskey should a few places higher he has shown himself to be a very formidable boxer despite his sub par last fight.

McCloskey seems to be a very talented fighter, but his opposition since 2008 (Harrison and Rasilla) has not been very good. As European champion he will probably be fighting good opposition soon, so I will be able to raise him up the rankings.

How is Darren Barker 18 and Andy Lee dropped off the list? Lees last fight was against Affif Belcgeham (spelling?), who was a top 25 boxer on boxrec at the time. Correct me if I am wrong but has Darren Barker fought a top 50 boxer even yet?

Andy Lee would most likely have entered the rankings in April 2008 if he had beaten Vera, but he lost. If Lee had entered the list back then he would probably be higher in the rankings than Barker is now. Barker hasn't lost yet like Lee has, so he has that advantage over Lee.

I'd also have Jason Booth higher, I think he would give Munroe a good run for his money.

I think Booth's current ranking is too low as well. If he wins this month then that can be rectified.

Not a bad list all in all. I find the Barker placement/Lee omission baffling though.

When Lee has another decent win he will probably re-enter the list.

Well it is lacking on consistency in that case. You rank Barker way higher than Lee based on the fact that he has beaten lesser opponents but remain unbeaten. Yet you rank Khan way higher than the likes of McCloskey when McCloskey has beaten lesser opponents but remains unbeaten. I'm not saying McCloskey should be higher than Khan but rather Lee should be in around the same placement or higher than Barkers ranking.

Lee's last win was decent too. It was probably the toughest challenge of his career. His opponent was a belt holder ( bullshit belt, but a belt nonetheless) who went the distance with N'Jikam.

[Horse]

Id have Ashley Sexton there instead of Jamie McDonnell,

Sexton doesn't deserve a place in the top 30 at the moment, he is only an English champion. If he beats Bayaar for the British title, or Edwards for the Commonwealth title, then maybe he will enter. Although he would probably have to beat both of them to enter.

And i taught Ricky Burns might have entered it.....

Burns hasn't fought for over 7 months and his opposition as Commonwealth champion was okay, but not great.

Obviously, if he beats Martinez in March then he will enter, but based on his record he doesn't really deserve to be in the top 30 at present.

[JDC]

His win over highly touted Banks is more impressive than most above him imo.

Do you mean Fields? Because I can't see a fighter named Banks on his record.

Your correct, had him mixed up with Jonathan Banks (the other highly regarded US cruiserweight prospect in 2008) The sentament is the same though, it looks a good win considering the 2 and a half year absence.

Can't remember if Fields was World ranked at the time. He did have 8 first round KO's from his first 11 fIghts, so he wouldn't have been too far away.

[Horse]

could you please change the title of the thread to british and irish p4p list

thank you

No.

[moorser]

why not it is a british and irish list

if there was britsh and french fighters in a list would you call it a british list ??? or a british and french list ??

[hitman_hatton1]

how is kel brook so low ?

cos the british welterweight scene is dead right now.

and he still hasn't fought michael jennings yet.

easy really.

[Horse]

Well it is lacking on consistency in that case. You rank Barker way higher than Lee based on the fact that he has beaten lesser opponents but remain unbeaten. Yet you rank Khan way higher than the likes of McCloskey when McCloskey has beaten lesser opponents but remains unbeaten. I'm not saying McCloskey should be higher than Khan but rather Lee should be in around the same placement or higher than Barkers ranking.

I think Barker's wins are about as good as Lee's, so I don't think that Lee has the better record.

Khan has beaten World class opposition, McCloskey has beaten European/domestic level. I don't think that situation is comparable to Lee's and Barker's.

Lee's last win was decent too. It was probably the toughest challenge of his career. His opponent was a belt holder ( bullshit belt, but a belt nonetheless) who went the distance with N'Jikam.

I moved Lee into the list after his win over Belghecham, so I respected that win.

[Horse]

Your correct, had him mixed up with Jonathan Banks (the other highly regarded US cruiserweight prospect in 2008) The sentament is the same though, it looks a good win considering the 2 and a half year absence.

Can't remember if Fields was World ranked at the time. He did have 8 first round KO's from his first 11 fIghts, so he wouldn't have been too far away.

He had a win over former IBF champion Kelvin Davies, so he might have been World ranked.

Like I said, I should have ranked him higher.