Roy Williams II

[Robinson]

I do not wish to re invoke any nasties that may have occured in the
previous thread.

BUT...

Holmes mentioned that WIlliams, a big man, was avoided and was
a guy he never wanted to fight. I have not seen much footge of
him besides clips. What was he like as a fighter ?

I know a record often bellies the realities of a fighter such things
as last minute fights and ... as Gran puts it cuffs (which I know
for a fact exists in MMA and Boxing !) can also change things.
Not saying this had any influence on some of WIlliams' losses
but myu question is... what got Roy such a reputation in a pretty
strong era of boxing ?

Was it is gym reputation ? size or the fact that he could be a hot
and cold fighter ?

Thanks again.

[Collins2000]

what got Roy such a reputation in a pretty
strong era of boxing ?

Probably was a tough guy on the street. So was Sykes and he gets mentione din here once a week at least.

That and a combination of exaggeration and rose-tinted glasses, in my opinion.

[granberry]

The authority on Kid Azteca and Juan Zurita offers his drivel.

[TheGreatA]

He was bigger than most heavyweights of his era at 6'5, 230+ pounds and could also throw a quick left hook with power behind it. However he was one of the laziest boxers I've seen. Against Earnie Shavers he was coasting and allowing Shavers to outpoint him until rallying late but Shavers pulled out a win by a miracle. Williams's trainer supposedly told him late in the fight "We need the money, Roy" which lit a fire on him. Unfortunately he walked into a right hand as he attempted to finish Shavers.

I'd say it was just a matter of Williams having somewhat of a sparring partner's mentality. I know he worked as a sparring partner for Ali and many other top names of the late 1970's. Shavers said that Ali had told him he would give him a title shot if Earnie could get past "Tiger" Williams. He says he stayed in the fight only because of the promised title opportunity.

[dempseyfire]

Pretty much what GreatA said. He had some very nice skills learned in the philly gyms and had a very good chin, athleticism, and power along with being a Lennox Lewis sized heavyweight. However, he often fought lazily in the ring and would stay in sparring partner mode, allowing people to outpoint him. This is how he lost to Dunn.

Vs Shavers, he fought a very lazy fight, hardly ever employing his excellent left jab (which you can see in clips of him sparring Ali pre-Zaire) and constantly leaning on the ropes. One could maybe say his plan was to let Shavers punch himself out and then he'd come on, which is what happened, but Roy came on too late and Earnie's tremondous power of course saved him in the end.

Williams is one of several 'lost' 70s heavyweights who had size and skills but just never got their careers on the right track. I'd add in Jeff Merritt, Stan Ward and big Al Jones, whose career got derailed due to chronic hand issues.

[Robinson]

Thanks for that guys. Id like to check some of his fights soon enough.

[Ezzard]

I really enjoyed the Roy Williams thread. I come in today and it's all been deleted.

[enrique]

On the plus side Williams was big, strong, talented and was -when enraged- a fierce competitor.

On the negative side he was lazy, had a sparring partner mentality and probably some self confidence problems because he always failed to score the big wins.

He belongs to a group of talented fighters -Jeff Sims, Candy Slim Merritt- who could have been outstanding but were victims of their own weakness, foibles and stupidity.

I think it was John Greenleaf Whitier who said: "Of all the sad words/of tongue or pen/ the saddest are these/it might have been."

[BoxBuzz]

Any relation to Cleveland or Carl? (Was Cleveland's last name really Williams?) Something in my foggy memory tells me there is a story to that.

Also though I agree Roy could at times be a very good fighter to watch, His fight with Dunn does tell us something.

[wouter]

Any relation to Cleveland or Carl?

No. He's Robin Williams' second cousin though.

[overhand_right]

I spoke to Earnie Shavers personally about Roy Williams a few years ago - he was almost in awe of Williams. He said he's mellowed now but in his day he was a mean, nasty, fearsome man. Earnie said there were a lot of people who didn't want to go through Philly for fear of running into Roy, and to this day he gets scared watching the tape of his fight with him.

Williams was huge even by todays standards - 6'5'' & 230 lbs - he held his hands high, had a great chin, looked extremely powerful but wouldn't throw many punches. The tape I have of him (Shavers & Holmes fights) his main weapons looked to be uppercuts with either hand.

According to Holmes, who wrote quite a bit about Williams in 'Against The Odds', he was mostly held back by inactivity. Nobody wanted to fight him, he had a huge reputation in gyms and as a result no one would put their fighters in with him. Holmes added had Williams been more active their might have been different. Williams infamous 10 round war with Muhammad Ali prior to the Rumble in the Jungle has been written about a fair bit.

Williams last job seemed to be as a sparring partner for a novice Leon Spinks and would box on his undercards, but his career died out after that.

[Expug]

Its funny the things that run through the mind when certain fighters are mentioned. I would imagine that he would have been avoided by Mike Jones and Dennis Rappaport.
If of course the idea was even thrown around. I doubt it.In other words, Im sure some avoided the man.

[dempseyfire]

I spoke to Earnie Shavers personally about Roy Williams a few years ago - he was almost in awe of Williams. He said he's mellowed now but in his day he was a mean, nasty, fearsome man. Earnie said there were a lot of people who didn't want to go through Philly for fear of running into Roy, and to this day he gets scared watching the tape of his fight with him.

Williams was huge even by todays standards - 6'5'' & 230 lbs - he held his hands high, had a great chin, looked extremely powerful but wouldn't throw many punches. The tape I have of him (Shavers & Holmes fights) his main weapons looked to be uppercuts with either hand.

According to Holmes, who wrote quite a bit about Williams in 'Against The Odds', he was mostly held back by inactivity. Nobody wanted to fight him, he had a huge reputation in gyms and as a result no one would put their fighters in with him. Holmes added had Williams been more active their might have been different. Williams infamous 10 round war with Muhammad Ali prior to the Rumble in the Jungle has been written about a fair bit.

Williams last job seemed to be as a sparring partner for a novice Leon Spinks and would box on his undercards, but his career died out after that.

You have the full Holmes fight?? Can you post it online?

[Nile4000]

Did Roy and George Foreman ever have any confrontations?