National Silver Gloves

[ABC BOXING ACADEMY]

I was one of the coaches at the Silver Gloves representing Region 3. There were some good boxers out there; however, I must say, Region 8 who definitely had some very good young boxers, often received the close decisions.

[boxmel]

So, are you saying that those "losing the close decisions" were (cough, cough), robbed? Why do you think Region 8 boxers got the "close decisions?" Were the officials from other regions "encouraged" to give the "close decisions" to Region 8 boxers? Just being curious.

[amateurbox]

Region 8 was definitely favored.What fights did u see were close that could have went the other way?I seen a few myself.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Region 8 was definitely favored.What fights did u see were close that could have went the other way?I seen a few myself.

If most of the officials are from Region 8, what would expect. They are familiar with boxers from their region and have scored their bouts throughout the year. I would say it's favoritism, but just that they are used to scoring for these boxers so if it's close I'm not surprised that the boxers from their region would win. Region 3 has almost no officials there so it's goign to be tough.

[boxmel]

If most of the officials are from Region 8, what would expect.

There were four officials from Region 8 - two from SoCal and two from Colorado. Silver Gloves officials do NOT work their own Regions, so that's hardly the cause of the success of Region 8 boxers in this tournament. Ummm - maybe they're just (heaven forbid!) good?????

[DCAmateurBoxing]

If most of the officials are from Region 8, what would expect.

There were four officials from Region 8 - two from SoCal and two from Colorado. Silver Gloves officials do NOT work their own Regions, so that's hardly the cause of the success of Region 8 boxers in this tournament. Ummm - maybe they're just (heaven forbid!) good?????

A Are you sure, Mel? With 20 of the 22 finalists coming from Region 8, you are saying that those 4 officials only worked 2 finals?? Are you sure? Yes, they are good, but it's much easier to blame the judging than admit it.

[boxmel]

Are you sure, Mel? With 20 of the 22 finalists coming from Region 8, you are saying that those 4 officials only worked 2 finals??

That's the way the ball bounces. And even if they did work a Region 8 final, there would only have been one Region 8 judge on the bout - hardly the majority needed to determine the winner.

Yes, they are good, but it's much easier to blame the judging than admit it.

Hah! At least YOU'LL admit the truth!

[ABC BOXING ACADEMY]

The point is, even if the Region 8 judges don't work their own regions, often other judges may be persuaded due to the reputation that the Region has, so if a match is close that judge can easily go with Region 8 because no one would argue about the decision. I will not say that cheating was taking place, but I just found it quite interesting that they got a great deal of the close decisions. Can someone tell me how to put the smiles in?[/color]

[boxmel]

The point is, even if the Region 8 judges don't work their own regions, often other judges may be persuaded due to the reputation that the Region has, so if a match is close that judge can easily go with Region 8 because no one would argue about the decision.

I sincerely hope that isn't happening. A boxer should NEVER be judged on individual or regional reputation. If this is the case, the judges need a reality check.

Can someone tell me how to put the smiles in?

When you reply to a post, the available smilies are shown on the left side. Just click on the smilie(s) you want, where you want.

[jdf]

I was there and region 8 won the most by far. I am sure it was'nt due to judging being biased like box mel said they are not allowed to judge a bout that has region 8 boxer in it.
Those kids seem to know where to put the white part of the gloves and hit the scoring areas of the body where as I saw a lot of kids that looked good and fast but were landing on the shoulders and arms.
Thats a big region as far as the number of kids to pick from and i am sure the competition level is pretty high most all the time they get in the ring out west.

[BEAST21]

i must say this was our first time there and we noticed the same thing but i must say region 8 did have some very good boxers. what i did noticed specially in my sons bout is that the judges were extremly old and im sure they didnt count the scoring right. those kids where very fast and im sure they didnt see the pounches landing. my son had 3 very aged judges and im sure other bouts must of have the same effect. by all means im not saying my son won the fight im not saying he got robbed all im saying is that maybe they need to get younger judges that know the scoring system or maybe have the scoring digital. i will bet that region 8 next year will not have the same outcome... dc let me know when you see my sons fight and tell me what you think thnx

[boxmel]

i am sure the competition level is pretty high most all the time they get in the ring out west.

The Southern California Assn. (LA area) has a minimum of two local shows every weekend - sometimes three. Our kids are, if nothing else, very experienced. DD

that the judges were extremly old and im sure they didnt count the scoring right.

Now, that's a discriminatory statement if I ever heard one! I'm 69 and my husband is 66 and we both know how to count a legal, effective scoring punch - so do a lot of other seniors. It's probably just because some of the judges, no matter how young or old, didn't adhere to the scoring criteria.

my son had 3 very aged judges

How old is "aged?" 90? 100?

maybe they need to get younger judges that know the scoring system

How about any age judge who knows the scoring system?

or maybe have the scoring digital.

Silver Gloves will probably never have the computer scoring system - and if judges don't know the scoring criteria, using the computer scoring system won't make a difference.

I will bet that region 8 next year will not have the same outcome...

Ummm - may I ask why you think so? I did hear that there were a lot of sour grapes over Region 8 winning the team trophy - again.

[BEAST21]

sorry if i offended you or your husband what i was trying to say (AGED) meaning 1 of the judges that i saw with my own eyes he was doing the scoring and his hands where shacking. but he was scoring the bout! the other 2 didnt have glasses on my sons bout but on the other bouts they did have them on. all im saying is on my behalf i feel that the style of amateur boxing has changed and i dont think that if they dont have their glasses on how could they keep up with the punches. and the other ref well he his hand where shacking before the bout started i just wasnt to happy to see that lets just say... know 60 even 70 is not old to score if you are still alert my father was 78yrs and still very alert. i also saw another judge and he was right on point and he is aroud your age im not saying band all senior refs but maybe check the refs that cant keep up with the youngsters. there is e ref from fl his name is bob nickerson he did an outstanding job on a bout that the kid keeped pushing. he took 2 point off. my son s bout the kid held him 6times in the 1-2 round and never got a single point taken off. and he held 6 more times in the 3rd round. the bout was 1min so you tell me what you would have done??

[boxmel]

Beast - I was not offended. I don't really think it has much to do with age (unless a judge is 90ish or has health problems). I really believe it has to do with training and learning at the local level. If this doesn't happen, then there will be problems wherever that official goes. The Level concept is good in that an official can't attend an advancing national tournament until he or she is a Level 2 - which takes a couple of years - where, before the Levels, a brand new official could pay their own way and go. Unfortunately, some Level 2's and 3's aren't that good of an official but they can, and do, pass the tests. Bob Nicholson is one of the best we have.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Beast - I was not offended. I don't really think it has much to do with age (unless a judge is 90ish or has health problems). I really believe it has to do with training and learning at the local level. If this doesn't happen, then there will be problems wherever that official goes. The Level concept is good in that an official can't attend an advancing national tournament until he or she is a Level 2 - which takes a couple of years - where, before the Levels, a brand new official could pay their own way and go. Unfortunately, some Level 2's and 3's aren't that good of an official but they can, and do, pass the tests. Bob Nicholson is one of the best we have.

Yes, Mel. Not age, just ability or willingness to improve IMO. A lot of officials don't even read the rule book because "they've been doing this for years." Sad. If anyone really wants to make a difference, they should ask their LBC how they can become officials. I can't really complain too much, because I wouldn't want to do what they do.

[BEAST21]

mel your on top of the game to bad the judges that were there werent!! but at the same time i agree with dc because i wouldnt want to do the job. so i guess we all need to be thankfull that the national happen. and not were because of lack of judges we dint have a NSG. to bad we dont have 20 of you (mel) judgeging lol thank you for making me realize different things...

[boxinghead]

Hats off to region 8. They know the system and how to provide their boxers with the best chance of winning. They raise money and bring a strong team. How many officials did each region bring. The Silver Gloves has a certain style that helps boxers get to the JOs. These boxers usually do well although some do not. Its not about ring management at the upper levels, but scoring. The Silver Gloves don't like fighting backwards. Bring more officials and you will get different decisions. At least maybe balancing out decisions.

[boxmel]

Yes, Mel. Not age, just ability or willingness to improve IMO. A lot of officials don't even read the rule book because "they've been doing this for years."

When I first got involved, 23 years ago, the official who trained me insisted that I read the rule book and learn the rules. His reasoning was that if every official and coach knew the rules, the judging, refereeing and coaching would be standard throughout the sport and everyone would be on the same page - the best scenario for the athletes. I took his advice to heart and became a walking rule book. Still am, much to the dismay of those who want to circumvent the rules. I have no respect for those adults who do not put the boxers first, and there are way too many of those.

Off soapbox. ;;-)

[wsbuf]

The most important rule a judge needs to know is what a scoring punch is. You can know all the rules but if you don't know a scoring blow from a glancing blow, etc it really don't matter.

[boxmel]

The most important rule a judge needs to know is what a scoring punch is

Umm - that isn't a rule, per se - but I totally agree with you.

[Boxing Buddy]

Beast21 - do you have any alligator? Nice meeting you at the National Silver Gloves and hope to see you at a tournament in the future.

[BEAST21]

Beast21 - do you have any alligator? Nice meeting you at the National Silver Gloves and hope to see you at a tournament in the future.

do i have any ALLIGATOR hmmm lmao no but next time i see you ill bring you one!! i need to know who are you so i make sure the alligator dont bite the wrong person!! lol

[BEAST21]

Yes, Mel. Not age, just ability or willingness to improve IMO. A lot of officials don't even read the rule book because "they've been doing this for years."

When I first got involved, 23 years ago, the official who trained me insisted that I read the rule book and learn the rules. His reasoning was that if every official and coach knew the rules, the judging, refereeing and coaching would be standard throughout the sport and everyone would be on the same page - the best scenario for the athletes. I took his advice to heart and became a walking rule book. Still am, much to the dismay of those who want to circumvent the rules. I have no respect for those adults who do not put the boxers first, and there are way too many of those.

Off soapbox. ;;-)

i totaly agree with you mel i havent been around that long but i have seen some crazy things going on at the scale,age,and lies about how many bouts a kid has. some coaches have more heart than the boxer and they put their boxers at risk just to prove that their kid has heart mean while the kid gets hurt in the bout... i do agree some trainers dont care!!

[boxmel]

but i have seen some crazy things going on at the scale,age,and lies about how many bouts a kid has. some coaches have more heart than the boxer and they put their boxers at risk just to prove that their kid has heart mean while the kid gets hurt in the bout... i do agree some trainers dont care!!

Me, too - one of my favorites is the coach who keeps an athlete's weight down so he doesn't box the best kid in the next weight class and possibly, heaven forbid! - lose! Starving a boxer so he doesn't lose just plain stinks.

[BEAST21]

yes i dont put my son on a diet his 13yrs and his body is growing you cant fight nature. i just put him on a weight class that he dont need to diet when he gets older and his growing stops then he can do all the diet he wants. i see kids staving for 24hr and spitting in a cup and running with a body suit to make a weight that they shouldnt be in. is sad that the parents dont see whats going on..i could never leave my son alone with anyone not even his trainer or speacially his mother thats why i have full custody of him... lol but is true when you have a son on this type of sport a parent needs to be on top of things